Encanto

[blackcauldron85]

I just watched the film a 2nd time (1st was at the theater, today was on Disney+). Weirdly, Disney+ said I was already 58 minutes into the film...when my husband woke up, he said he didn't start it last night. Some kind of glitch on Disney+'s part. (Obviously I started it from the beginning.)

Isa's song, its not that its too long but that it feels.... poorly structured? Poorly thought out? Like, I wish there had been more time spent on the Isa/Mira rivalry. Considering how important that particular relationship ends up being to getting towards the film's resolution, it felt like a barely there "C" plot. Like maybe Isa's number should have happened earlier in the film, I dunno, I feel like it comes on too late in the story...Isa sings about how she always has to be perfect, the sisters have their big blow up and then their make up hug, all in the same number. Felt rushed.

I actually had your thought on this song in mind when watching it today. I think that maybe because Mirabel mentioned to Isa that she had no idea that she was just being perfect for the family...I think it was the first time that Isa could just be herself, that she was understood, and she and Mirabel saw new sides of each other and bonded...I mean, the length of time that they spent together was probably longer (in "real" life) than the 3-4 minute song, right? So even if it was within an hour or two, sure, it's quick to un-hate and love someone, but I thought it was believable.

The thoughts I wrote down when watching it today:

*Butterfly on the candle was very obvious today, butterflies on Mirabel's shirt.

*Abuela said the candle could never go out...I guess she just assumed it couldn't since it hadn't yet.

*The doors have images of the family members...as they are now. When Julieta/Pepa/Bruno originally got their doors, did they have their images as children, and then as they got older the images changed? (Antonio's door doesn't show an adult Antonio, but it probably someday will?)

*When did Abuela get a door? If before her first grandchild was born, did it say Mamá and then after she was an abuela her door name/image changed?

*lol the guy who was covered in cactus prickles/flowers in line for Julieta to heal him (during "The Family Madrigal")...it made me chuckle for some reason.

*Camilo shapeshifting into that mom and babysitting so she can rest was super sweet!

*"Maybe your gift is being in denial." still makes me chuckle every time.

*"Dolores, can you hear if anyone is going to be late?" I thought that was a little funny.

*How does Julieta's gift work exactly? Obviously Augustín and Mirabel have eaten Julieta's cooking before. Not like she made the food that heals only for the individual person**. So just an injured/sick person being given (by Julieta) food made by Julieta is all it takes? I am overthinking her gift. (**But later, after Mirabel cuts her hand, Julieta is making fresh arepas...)

*"Clean your rooms. I don't care how big they are." -Abuela (I thought this was funny, too.)

*Abuela is still the worst. I know why she's like how she is, but poor Mirabel. Julieta is still the best. <3

*Mirabel & Antonio have such a special relationship. I love their scenes together.

*I watch everything with closed captioning on. Disney+ has English captions for both "Colombia, Mi Encanto" and "Dos Orguitas"!

*When Mirabel takes Antonio's hand before walking to his door, Isa has a disgusted look on her face (the other family members look surprised, not disgusted).

*I needed to reread the posts here to my earlier questions about the cracks and Mirabel's gift and butterflies. I think it'll take a few viewings to have those stick in my head, but thank you again to Farerb, Disney's Divinity, & Clindor for helping me understand these things!

*Luisa's donkey dancers = <3 +

*Luisa needs a therapist. I mean, Abuela, Pepa, Isa, Mirabel, & Bruno do, too.

*I hadn't noticed Dolores' little "squeaks" when I watched this in the theater. (like here: https://youtu.be/XnSYhbRJDhI?t=21)

*It's clearly Abuela with the gift of being in denial.

*I feel like this should be on IMDB's "Goofs" page: When Mirabel is chasing Bruno, and he gets over the hole in the floor... we see a shot of Mirabel, and in the next shot, Bruno is kind of in the same spot that he was in a moment ago...he should have been further along or out of view, I think...

*lol, when Mirabel is holding up Bruno and she sees the rat. I don't know why that's so funny.

*"A little salt...sugar" - lol (Bruno)

*Bruno being Hernando and Jorge - lol

*"Don't eat those." - Antonio (never gets old!)

*The animation of the rats is pretty life-like, right?! (Or is it just me?) (I feel like Jules may have said something similar but I can't find it right now...)??

*Julieta & Augustín = <3. Mirabel is very lucky to have them.

*"How do you help a family miracle? You hug a sister." - Bruno (another line that I don't know why I find it so funny but I do)

*lol, Camilo shapeshifting into a baby

*"You're exactly what this family needs. You just have to see it." <3 Bruno ("by yourself, after I leave." :lol)

*Bruno had the right idea to "leave" the family. Abuela is a bee-yotch. Poor Mirabel (after "What Else Can I Do").

*"Dos Orguitas" - stop chopping onions. Even when listening in the car (especially the English version), I just get emotional. It's one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard.

*The ending of the film is so beautiful. <3

[TheSequelOfDisney]

I just finished watching this and thought it was nice. Nothing extraordinary, but I don't feel like I wasted my time with it. The animation is beautiful of course and I enjoyed that it has a much more intimate conflict (no chasing dragons or fighting evil or saving China etc.). My biggest disappointment was with the songs. I just didn't connect with any of them besides "Dos Orguitas." Perhaps LMM just isn't for me, as I didn't think much of Moana's songs either.

[PatrickvD]

Finally watched it. Thought it was cute, but not much more. The animation is quite dazzling in places.

It didn’t resonate much with me until we got to the backstory. Where it turned surprisingly dark.

The music doesn’t hold a candle to Moana. Lin Manuel went full Hamilton here. Like way overboard.

[blackcauldron85]

My mom asked me if this is based on a Colombian legend; I said no, that Disney wrote it (original story). She wondered what the point setting it in Colombia was then. I said "Why was Lilo & Stitch set in Hawaii?". It's obviously about representation and using the music and environment and colors, etc...

After seeing the film a second time yesterday (I saw it for the third today), and listening to the soundtrack after rewatching the film, i wondered why Dolores told the secret of Mirabel discovering Bruno's vision, but didn't share the fact that she knew Bruno was living in the house. The Disney Wiki speculates that Dolores was sensitive to Bruno's issue ("is possible she felt sympathy for his case since she describes his gift to be humbling and seemed to understand his predicament during the song "We Don't Talk About Bruno."")("Due to their sensory powers, Bruno and Dolores are the only family members that their doors depict with eyes open. The similarity in their powers could explain Dolores' particular sympathy towards Bruno.").

[Farerb]

Encanto feels very flimsy with its premise and it quickly becomes apparent that this movie suffers from the same issues that Frozen II and Raya and the Last Dragon did before it: it’s a movie with no story. it starts and ends well, but the middle is basically about a girl going from one room to another, from one family member to another and then we have music videos that halt the narrative and don't add anything (I would have preferred if the characters just had conversations about their issues). The most disappointing thing to me is that the supporting characters lack any depth, they are extremely underdeveloped and their relationships are unexplored. Why should I care about Luisa if after her song she goes back to being a background character? Why should I feel cathartic when Isabela sings her song if I didn't spend any time to get to know her or her issues prior?

I think my disappointment with Encanto is bigger than that of Raya and the Last Dragon's perhaps because I had more anticipation to this film than I had with Raya and the Last Dragon, but honestly this doesn't feel like it was made by the same director as the one who made Tangled and Zootopia (as much as both of them didn't really age that well for me) and frankly after Zootopia and Encanto, I have to ask myself if Byron Howard (or WDAS at this point) even knows what subtext is. This almost feels like a different studio trying to do a "Disney film" like Over the Moon or Vivo.

I can't say that I'm pleased with Disney's recent films in this Post-Revival era, all of them feel like they're half baked and their script needed more time to be worked on. Their story is driven by the message, instead of having the message coming from the story or the characters. And I'm not really looking forward to any future projects at this point, or the genzification of Disney Animation. It's sad indeed. Probably why I was less active lately because I don't really get much enjoyment from being an anti-fan / pseudo-fan.

[TheSequelOfDisney]

Their story is driven by the message, instead of having the message coming from the story or the characters.

This is a major occurrence across all media. This is why I don't like most contemporary Broadway musicals or pop songs or general fiction by young debut authors or cinema. The message or theme is first and the story and characters are secondary, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you have intriguing characters and any semblance of a plot to tell that story, but that's usually not the case. Right now I think we're in the age of ideas and studios and producers and publishing houses believe that's enough, that that's all you need to sell something. And it seems to be true as general audiences are responsive to it.

This is why I'm not excited for the live-action Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Pasek and Paul are great at writing songs about themes but they don't serve any narrative purpose. "Speechless" is dumb as hell in Aladdin. I don't remember a single song from The Greatest Showman (except for "This Is Me" because it was played excessively by media outlets) or Dear Evan Hansen. And I only like La La Land because I think composer Justin Hurwitz knew what he was doing.

[PatrickvD]

So true. A message is not a story. They seem to have forgotten this over at WDAS.

Things in Encanto felt very made up along the way. You can just hear a story artist pitch something along the lines of “and then a bunch of refugees lit a magical candle that grew a sentient house around which a town was built.”

And everyone just rolled with it. Having thought it over half a day after seeing it I really find it very third rate Disney. I enjoy some of their dark age films more than this. Surface Pressure was a highlight though.

[Farerb]

Their story is driven by the message, instead of having the message coming from the story or the characters.

This is a major occurrence across all media. This is why I don't like most contemporary Broadway musicals or pop songs or general fiction by young debut authors or cinema. The message or theme is first and the story and characters are secondary, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you have intriguing characters and any semblance of a plot to tell that story, but that's usually not the case. Right now I think we're in the age of ideas and studios and producers and publishing houses believe that's enough, that that's all you need to sell something. And it seems to be true as general audiences are responsive to it.

I agree, I think it's an approach that eventually leads to movies that are just not entertaining. And I agree about the characters, I watched the film again with my sister and her kids and after the movie I asked if they remembered the characters names and they couldn't, and it was the case with Raya and the Last Dragon as well.

[Farerb]

So true. A message is not a story. They seem to have forgotten this over at WDAS.

Things in Encanto felt very made up along the way. You can just hear a story artist pitch something along the lines of “and then a bunch of refugees lit a magical candle that grew a sentient house around which a town was built.”

And everyone just rolled with it. Having thought it over half a day after seeing it I really find it very third rate Disney. I enjoy some of their dark age films more than this. Surface Pressure was a highlight though.

It feels very much that it began with them wanting to make a movie set in Colombia, about a big family and a generic message of "everyone is a snowflake", I don't think they thought what the story would actually be.

I also prefer the Dark Age films, they're not outstanding, but at least they have some childhood charm to them, but maybe I'm just being nostalgic.

[Sotiris]

This is a major occurrence across all media.

That's true. They put advocacy ahead of storytelling. While Hollywood had always been progressive in its messaging, this was done in an organic, nuanced and well-executed way. Nowadays, the social commentary is ham-fisted, shoehorned, and over-the-top. It reads more like a manifesto by some Twitter-activist than anything resembling real-life issues that are often complex and without easy solutions.

[Disney's Divinity]

This is why it's always interesting to be pegged as the negative one, because it often feels like I'm one of the few who is positive about WDAS' direction of late. I liked this one practically against my will, and enjoyed Raya and Frozen II also. It's true that the messages in Raya / Encanto are hamfisted at certain moments--usually early on in the film when the characters are filling airtime talking with one another about the problem whereas I found the climaxes of both this one and Raya to be very well-done--but I mean.... WDAS has often been fairly OTT with their messages. Compare this to Pocahontas, Hunchback, Hercules, and Mulan or even further back with things like Dumbo, Pinocchio, or Cinderella. They're all pretty in-your-face with their morals from the start of the film. Even B&tB and TLK have messages that are ever-present.

So far the only things about WDAS at the moment that I'm not excited about is Miranda and the lack of hand-drawn animation. But, I mean, the latter is something that probably isn't going to change for a very long time (if ever). I don't see Miranda as a permanent problem, on the other hand. Hopefully once he gets his EGOT or whatever, he'll slowly lose interest in WDAS and go back to Broadway.

[robster16]

JUST finished watching it and I am sorry to say that I had very little to no connection to it at any point. The story seems convoluted and barely there. The entire thing feels like an over the top music video and an artist show reel for everyone to turn their talent up to 110% without it serving a plot or anything really. The music annoys me to no end because it’s just a barrage of fast paced and tongue twisting lyrics. Howard Ashland is rolling in his grave that the songs break the movie’s flow instead of furthering the plot.

Everything just feels too much. It’s too cute, too wondrous, too colorful, too sweet, too fast, all the animation while beautiful at times is like every character is acting on an overdose of energy drinks and coffee. Your eyes and ears have no time to settle and get into a flow. Disney seems to have forgotten that just because you can make EVERYTHING move doesn’t mean you HAVE to. I hope this is not a direction they continue in and the fact that it got pretty good reviews sort of worries me.

This movie is really not for me. There were times when I was intrigued at what could have been and those moments were all in the slower and more introspective scenes of the movie. And sorry but for me Lin Manuel Miranda is WAY overrated and not a good match for Disney movies…

[unprincess]

wow Im really saddened at how many of you didn't enjoy this, it seems even Raya was better liked than this. Sucks for me b/c I really would have loved to talk more about the film here, Tumblr's not really made for discussion and while Ive found a couple discords I really hate the discord format and it seems everyone who uses it is under 20.

Im curious how many of you guys would have liked the film more if it was still a musical but LMM hadn't done the music. I know he isn't very popular here. Ive only seen two of his musicals, the ones hes done for Disney(haven't had a chance to watch Hamilton or ITH yet) and while I loved Moana's music instantly, it took me 3 watches to now say I love every song n Encanto. I saw the movie Christmas Eve a 3rd time on D+ with my niece. My niece loved it but she is a 13 year old theater kid(just like Camilo, heh) who's already seen Hamilton on D+ herself so I had a feeling she would like it. Also she seemed already familiar with some of the songs and scenes (she already knew about the "hidden" Bruno cameo during WDTAB) so she must have been watching some of the clips on YouTube.

as for the films being message films first, yep Ive noticed this since the first Frozen. I agree that as a result the storytelling has suffered compared to the Renaissance and Walt era films. The Revival era films often feel rushed, badly paced or have a lot of extraneous characters that don't get enough development/screen time. The later especially seem to be a big problem with the last three films but I also wonder how much of that is the Disney+ influence with the studio knowing that eventually most of these films will have to get a series so its ok to introduce a bunch of supporting characters now and wait to develop them later, it will keep the audience wanting to know more. That said it doesn't mean I dont or cant enjoy the films, and in Encanto's case it felt like it made the story seem simpler, like a slice of life not unlike what Ghibli does.

This place is like night and day compared to the responses Ive seen on Tumblr and Twitter where the positive reviews/comments outweigh the negative. I wonder if there's an age thing going on too(since the users on those sites skew younger). Seems the newer Revival era writers know what the younger generations want in their animated films and have had success with that, maybe that's why they're so reluctant to go back to older tropes like classic villains and a more traditional musical style.

[D82]

Personally, I quite liked it. I've seen it three times too. Twice in theaters and once on Disney+, just like you. I hadn't shared my opinion of it yet because I've been a bit busy lately and there was so much I wanted to comment and respond to that I didn't know where to start, but I'll try to do it in the next few days if I can. By the way, I'm glad you liked it.

[Farerb]

I'm sorry for breaking a dam, I was afraid my comment was too negative, to balance things out I didn't hate the film, but I was disappointed and I guess it's not my thing, my 13 year old nephew loved it, especially Luisa's song. My brother, who's older than me, liked some of the songs and the movie, but didn't care the resolution of the film, he thought it happened too quickly, and he thought the emotional moments in Moana and Coco were handled better (which I agree with), but my sister didn't care about anything, she even liked Raya better and she doesn't hold that much of a high opinion about that film.

Unprincess - I've seen the reaction on both twitter and Tumblr, but to me those are the same reaction about any film that is released. Even Raya got positive reactions and now people barely talk about it. Moreover, a lot of the conversation I see is more about people's headcanons about the characters, like that Isabela is a lesbian because she doesn't want to get marry or that Mirabel is bisexual because of her rainbow (mostly about the characters' sexuality for some reason, never about their hobbies or whatnot), I was never about headcanons or fanfics, etc... So if the characters don't give me more on screen then I just don't care about them, and I think the supporting cast had something like 5-10 minutes of screentime (people have made YouTube videos combining each supporting character's scenes and they are very short).

[Farerb]

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[estefan]

I greatly enjoyed the movie, too, although I've really liked every movie Walt Disney Animation has done since "Bolt." There's just something about the films the studio has produced over the last decade or so that has appealed to me. I found the musical numbers creative and the songs catchy, I loved Mirabel as a character and how she attempted to solve this problem and I thought it was neat how most of the movie was mostly confined to a single location. I thought the directors made fantastic use of the house.

Something I'm surprised hasn't been commented on more here is that "Encanto" seemed to move away from two devices that were common when Lasseter was in charge and even showing up a little bit in the Lee era via "Raya and the Last Dragon." It wasn't a big road trip as, like I said, a lot of the story was kept in the house and surrounding village. And it didn't involve two characters that appear to be opposites teaming up. It seemed like it might head a little bit in the latter direction when Mirabel meets Bruno, but they don't actually share much screentime together.

Of course, "Strange World" does appear to be a road trip with a duo at the centre, but maybe that will also change things up in unexpected ways.

[blackcauldron85]

If everyone's gift is "supposed" to be of use to the community, how does Pepa's gift help others?

[Farerb]

TBH I found all their gifts with the exception of Julieta and Luisa pointless, why wouldn't Isabela grow wheat or vegetables? Seems more helpful than pretty flowers.

It reminds me that I had several minor nitpicks:
1. Why doesn't Julieta heal Mirabel's eye sight?
2. Why does Luisa carry the donkeys? Donkeys don't need to be carried.
3. How come Dolores didn't ear Alma talking to Pedro at night but could hear Luisa's eye twitching?
4. Why don't they change their clothes for the celebration and the next day?
5. Why did they present a scene where Mirabel is motivated to fix the magic only to realize that she needs Dolores? Did she go back to her pajamas and back to bed or did she wait like that until it was morning?

[blackcauldron85]

While every time they use their gift it isn't for the benefit of others so much (not every time Camilo shapeshifts it's to help, like when he's being funny turning into his dad), but often it is... Camilo can be tall to help hang things, he turns into the mom to give her a rest break...I think he's helpful. Dolores can help in finding someone (not something done all the time of course); otherwise I guess her gift isn't being used to its potential. If there was danger near she'd be able to hear.. I agree that growing veggies and grains would be more helpful... As an animal lover, I like that Antonio can kind of be a Dr. Doolittle for the animals in the community.

I think carrying the donkeys speeds things up... Otherwise she'd have to shepherd them whenever they get out and they can still wander around... by picking them up, it's just quicker I reckon.

I think your other questions are super good and I do not have any answers!

My mom wondered how people in Colombia feel about the film. I found this article (I bet there are others):
https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/22 ... -in-movies