Snow White (Live-Action)

[Sotiris]

I knew they'd hire an actress of color for the role. Either a light-skinned Asian or a light-skinned Latina. That way the Snow White name could still make sense and they'd get diversity points to boot. Rachel Zegler looks a bit dark-skinned in certain photos; I wonder if they'll use make-up to lighten her complexion, if that's even allowed anymore. I've never seen her in anything, but people claim she can sing and act well, so I'll have to take their word for it. At least, now I have a reason to watch the new West Side Story.

As for Pasek and Paul, I understand the concern. Even though their songs are catchy, they have more of a pop sensibility and approach to songwriting which might clash with the existing songs from the original. I think Menken and Schwartz would have been better choices for this film as they've proved with Enchanted they can write memorable songs that stay true to the music stylings of that era.

[Disney's Divinity]

I knew they'd hire an actress of color for the role. Either a light-skinned Asian or a light-skinned Latina.

Hmmm. Well, if they were determined to cast someone who does not look like the character, I think I'd rather have had someone Asian. At least you do often see Asian people who have very pale skin and black hair. I'm actually surprised Disney didn't think of that, now you bring it up, considering how much they've capered for the Chinese market in the past.

[Sotiris]

They really considered a Black woman to play a character named Snow White? I mean, I could see a revisionist, post-modernist take on the fairytale with a Black lead, but they would still need to change her name. Unless, of course, Snow White was the ironic nickname her evil stepmother gave her to mock and taunt her.

Damn, Olivia Rodrigo and H.E.R. were also in the running for Snow White, you know Disney will eventually tap them for future projects, they usually do.

Source: https://twitter.com/SkylerShuler/status ... 4937212929

There's some big names that were at Snow White. Lana Condor's name was there. I've never got this confirmed but Anya Taylor-Joy was a name mentioned.

Source: https://youtu.be/QwtT18QiP5Y?t=3218

[Sotiris]

Well, if they were determined to cast someone who does not look like the character, I think I'd rather have had someone Asian. At least you do often see Asian people who have very pale skin and black hair. I'm actually surprised Disney didn't think of that, now you bring it up, considering how much they've capered for the Chinese market in the past.

Even an Arab/Middle Eastern actress could fit the bill. They're fairly light-skinned. I guess Disney didn't consider Asian actresses because they thought they'd already represented the Asian community with the Mulan remake.

[UmbrellaFish]

To be honest, I don’t think most audiences would be phased by a Snow White whose skin is not “as white as snow.” “Snow White” is the name of the girl who falls asleep when she bites the apple, just as “Cinderella” is the girl who loses her slipper, and “Rapunzel” is the one with long hair in a tower. Their stories define who they are more than the folklore origins of their names which is why Disney left out the bits about Ella sleeping by the cinders and the pregnant woman craving rapunzel plants when they adapted those fairy tales to animation. And those movies worked just fine. The white color of Snow White’s skin is no more an important detail in her story than the ashes on Cinderella’s face.

[Disney's Divinity]

I'm really, really surprised they didn't go with Rodrigo. As far as the above... The character has skin as white as snow, lips blood red, and hair the color of ebony according to the story. Thankfully I don't even care that much about Snow White compared to many of their other films, it's just another occasion to point and laugh at how utterly ludicrous Disney has been the past couple of years instead of being angry like I was with The Little Mermaid. That said, I expect Snow White not getting played by a White actor will attract more controversy in the media than Ariel not being played by a girl with red hair did, because it's more blatant on its face with how stupid it is. It's literally her name.

I remember suggesting (or liking someone else's suggestion?) of Gal Gadot a year or so back. Everyone said she was way too old for the part. Well, clearly what the character looks like doesn't matter, why should her age?

“Rapunzel” is the one with long hair in a tower

Long, golden hair.

[UmbrellaFish]

Divinity, I am not engaging with you because you are ignoring my points and your tone is unserious.

[Sotiris]

I expect Snow White not getting played by a White actor will attract more controversy in the media than Ariel not being played by a girl with red hair did, because it's more blatant on its face with how stupid it is. It's literally her name.

I don't believe there's going to be as much as a controversy over Snow White's casting as there was for Ariel's. If they had cast a dark-skinned actress, maybe, but Rachel is fairly light-skinned and can pass as Snow White, especially with a bit of make-up. More importantly, Snow White is nowhere near as popular as The Little Mermaid with millennials who seem to be the target demographic of these remakes. There has been little backlash over Peter Pan, Tinker Bell, and the Blue Fairy getting race-flipped because of their lack of popularity with that age group, so I suspect Snow White's casting won't be heavily criticized either for the same reason.

[Disney's Divinity]

Divinity, I am not engaging with you because you are ignoring my points and your tone is unserious.

I'm grateful for that, actually. No offense, UmbrellaFish, but if I bought that you actually, genuinely believed anything you're saying instead of merely looking for an opportunity to disagree with me and demonize me the same way you did thedisneyspirit, you'd have something to say when feminism is constantly derided on this forum at every opportunity. But you don't. You and the rest of your crowd are entirely silent at those times, so, no, I don't see anything you're saying as meaning much of anything other than simple pettiness. I wonder if most of you would have any opinions at all if I didn't post something first for you to take the opposite position of whatever I've said, tbh!

I don't believe there's going to be as much as a controversy over Snow White's casting as there was for Ariel's. If they had cast a dark-skinned actress, maybe, but Rachel is fairly light-skinned and can pass as Snow White, especially with a bit of make-up. More importantly, Snow White is nowhere near as popular as The Little Mermaid with millennials who seem to be the target demographic of these remakes. There has been little backlash over Peter Pan, Tinker Bell, and the Blue Fairy getting race-flipped because of their lack of popularity with that age group, so I suspect Snow White's casting won't be heavily criticized either for the same reason.

While that's true re:millenials, I still think this will get more mileage from conservative outlets who like to spotlight "culture war" race-baiting fodder. Snow White is a bigger name than those characters and the punchline practically writes itself because it's her name.

[Sotiris]

Divinity, I am not engaging with you because you are ignoring my points and your tone is unserious.

There's no need to announce you're refusing to engage with someone. That's only going to provoke them. Just don't engage if you don't want to.

No offense, UmbrellaFish, but if I bought that you actually, genuinely believed anything you're saying instead of merely looking for an opportunity to disagree with me and demonize me the same way you did thedisneyspirit, you'd have something to say when feminism is constantly derided on this forum at every opportunity. But you don't. You and the rest of your crowd are entirely silent at those times, so, no, I don't see anything you're saying as meaning much of anything other than simple pettiness.

I think you're being unfair here. UF was responding to my comment about Snow White and her name; he wasn't addressing anything you had said in this instance. Also, even if UF doesn't care as much about feminism as he does about racial issues, which I'm not saying is true, that wouldn't make him hypocritical or disingenuous. People can be invested more in one aspect of social justice than another. One doesn't need to be gung-ho about every single area of social justice for their beliefs on a subject to be valid. Don't forget, one could make the same argument about you too. That your comments on feminism are inauthentic and targeted because you don't speak up as much about issues of racial equality. Which, again, I'm not saying that is true. I'm just trying to make you see others' perspective. I do believe UF genuinely believes what he says, as do you, of course, and he's not disagreeing with you on purpose. Your opinions simply diverge on certain topics. That's to be expected on a message board. There was no need for you to take it personally and lash out on him like that.

While that's true re:millenials, I still think this will get more mileage from conservative outlets who like to spotlight "culture war" race-baiting fodder. Snow White is a bigger name than those characters and the punchline practically writes itself because it's her name.

You make a good point there.

[UmbrellaFish]

Divinity, I am not engaging with you because you are ignoring my points and your tone is unserious.

I'm grateful for that, actually. No offense, UmbrellaFish, but if I bought that you actually, genuinely believed anything you're saying instead of merely looking for an opportunity to disagree with me and demonize me the same way you did thedisneyspirit, you'd have something to say when feminism is constantly derided on this forum at every opportunity. But you don't. You and the rest of your crowd are entirely silent at those times, so, no, I don't see anything you're saying as meaning much of anything other than simple pettiness. I wonder if most of you would have any opinions at all if I didn't post something first for you to take the opposite position of whatever I've said, tbh!

Divinity, I am responding to this post because I want to make something clear: we have our disagreements, but I generally think you are a thoughtful, articulate member of this forum. So I am disappointed that you have chosen not to engage with my recent post in this thread with that usual level of thoughtfulness. It was hurtful to me that in your response you ignored my points, italicized words as if I were an imbecile, and used laughing emojis. I did not feel you were taking me seriously or attempting to understand my point of view— even if in the end you still disagreed with me. In the final summation, I felt it was important to let you know that I was not engaging with your post and why.

You are right that I have sometimes ignored sexist messages on this board. Many times those messages are poorly written and/or very brief so I think nobody will take them seriously and move on. But you’re right I should do better in calling them out.

[Disney's Divinity]

Don't forget, one could make the same argument about you too.

I thought that's what already was happening, in a not-so-subtle way. You have a right to your opinion, Sotiris, but I also have a right to think he's a hypocrite who is only looking for another opportunity to disagree with my posts and demonize me, because that "calling out" isn't applied equally to other posts that say unmistakably misogynist things regularly. People have always had the right to say that I or other posters are hypocrites here openly without consequence, so I don't think anything I just said in this post or the prior one was against the rules. They have certainly never minded casting "racist!" aspersions at me or others, including yourself in the Encanto thread, whether or not you personally interpreted it that way (and neither have others shied away from doing the same thing). So fair is fair, no? In both the Encanto thread and the TLM thread, we have people making posts about the forum on the forum (estefan, Jules, tsom, farerb, UmbrellaFish). My post here is no different. Hell, in the Luca thread, Widdi tried to insinuate I (among others) was a pedophile for accusing that film of queerbaiting!

@UmbrellaFish: The italicized word was a correction. It was not an attempt to treat you like an imbecile. I think you're aware of that. If not, now you know. As for the laughing emojis, I usually use those as a way to make my post seem less hostile when I know it's not something that is going to be agreed with. No, I don't find any of what you're saying sincere.

[Sotiris]

People have always had the right to say that I or other posters are hypocrites here openly without consequence.

They don't have that right actually. If that has happened in the past, it was a lapse in moderation.

They have certainly never minded casting "racist!" aspersions at me or others (and neither have others shied away from doing that). So fair is fair, no?

I have reprimanded others for making such comments, but I can't catch everything. Also, there's a fine line between moderating and stifling free speech and certain posts are expressed in such a way that there's plausible deniability.

In any case, both of you have said what you had to say. It's time to move on and get back on topic.

[Disney's Divinity]

So... Will Disney continue in their deviations and cast normal-sized adults for the Dwarfs? Or is that their line in the sand?

[Sotiris]

No, they will definitely cast little people. They'll get too much backlash if they don't. Actually, this issue is a bit complicated. I have heard that casting little people in roles like dwarfs, elves, leprechauns etc. is offensive to them. But if Disney doesn't cast them, they'd be accused of taking away acting opportunities from them.

[Disney's Divinity]

And I imagine the Dwarfs will have to be diverse, too, of course. And Grumpy's character and dialogue will have to undergo major changes because that character would be toxic masculinity to many modern viewers.

I have no idea how they'll make Snow White not a doormat and still keep the narrative the same. I imagine she'll become a lot like the OUAT Snow White--hunting, bow and arrow, etc.

[Sotiris]

The dwarfs will probably will be diverse, yes, but I don't think they'll mess around the Grumpy's personality. That would completely ruin his arc in the film. As for Snow White, she'll definately become more active. I hope they don't push it too far though. We don't need another warrior princess. You can write a strong, well-rounded female character who's in charge of her destiny without resorting to that.

[Disney's Divinity]

I wonder how that's going to work when they still have to retain "I'm Wishing" and "Someday My Prince Will Come," both messages of passivity. I wouldn't be surprised if the new song they give her--since of course they will give her at least one new song--will try to negate those or counterbalance them, rather.

[Sotiris]

I can see them having her be naive and innocent at first and then after the Huntsman tries to kill her and she meets the dwarfs, she slowly becomes more confident in herself and more empowered. I imagine she'll get a power ballad in the second or third act. This is Pasek and Paul we're talking about. A power balled is inevitable.

We don't know yet which songs they're going to keep, I doubt they'll keep all of them, but there's no way they'll cut "Someday My Prince Will Come". It's the film's signature song. Maybe they'll cut "I'm Wishing" and put "Someday My Prince Will Come" in its place since both songs serve the same purpose. I agree it will be a bit difficult to make her more feminist with songs like "Whistle While You Work", but Pasek and Paul said they're "reinterpreting" some of the pre-existing songs, so who knows what they'll come up with. I'm both intrigued and scared by the possibilities.

[nomad2010]

I wonder how that's going to work when they still have to retain "I'm Wishing" and "Someday My Prince Will Come," both messages of passivity. I wouldn't be surprised if the new song they give her--since of course they will give her at least one new song--will try to negate those or counterbalance them, rather.

My guess is they will add in a very strong backstory to her and the prince. The songs can’t really be seen as passive if there’s a strong history between the two. She’s essentially just be missing him. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re in different places in the film, or completely reworked. I hope they’d retain the original creative vision. And with casting Rachel, I think it seems like that’s what they’re going for. My real point of concern is hiring Pasek and Paul instead of Menken who clearly can mimic the sound to perfection like he did in Enchanted. It makes me wonder if maybe they aren’t sonically going to rework the sound of the original songs as well to something… poppier. I have til say though, keeping this a musical and using the original songs, this has me more interested than any other Disney remake simply for the giant question mark of what it is we will eventually get.