Encanto

[DisneyFan09]

No offense, but I never wrote that Frozen had French subtitles. I wrote that "both Frozen and Moana got their subtitles in Spanish and French as well". Which meant that Frozen had Spanish subtitles, while Moana had French. But I`ve should`ve probably made it clearer. So I apologize for that.

[D82]

There's also a third option where Dolores is Mirabel's half-sibling, but Camilo isn't.

It's true; there are still many options. We'll have to wait for more info to know wether these characters are related and how.

They aged-up Carlos/Camilo from 15 to 16, so they've probably done the same for Mariana/Mirabel. Both of them having the same age is another indication he's going to be her love interest.

You're right; they could've aged her up.

I don't mind adults playing teenagers or kids in animation as long as they can pull it off. My consideration is not her age, but the sound of her voice and her acting and singing abilities.

I agree, what matters is that the voice is believable and fits the role, and in this case that the she can also sing.

It's to be expected since Maribel is the most common variant of the two. Disney should have predicted this. If you name a character Tommy, for example, people will naturally confuse it with the more common Tony.

I'm surprised though that Maribel is a well-known name outside Spain and Latin America. It's a common name here in Spain, but not as much as Carmen or María, for example, which are the only ones I thought most foreigners knew. By the way, Maribel is the shortened version for María Isabel, while apparently Mirabel is a full name.

I agree; it's a shame they didn't cast Rachel Zegler. She seems much more suitable for the part. I'm not surprised though. Rachel's only real role is West Side Story, a movie LMM had nothing to do with. It's to be expected he'd cast people he already knows and worked with and are probably friends with. LMM didn't only work with Steph on In the Heights movie, but also on Brooklyn Nine-Nine.

Both were also on DuckTales, as estefan pointed out. Regarding Rachel Zegler, I think she could've been cast despite not being too well-known yet. After all, Disney has cast unknown actors in the past, like for example, Auli'i Cravalho as Moana.

In regards to the conversation upthread, I understand how Mirabel is going to be mistakenly called Maribel, but personally I prefer Mirabel...

I prefer Mirabel too.

By the way, the movie is getting a subtitle in French. It will be called La Fantastique Famille Madrigal (=The Fantastic Madrigal Family).

That's interesting.

It's interesting that most overseas territories are retaining the title Encanto as is instead of translating it.

I believe this happened with Frozen and Big Hero 6 in some territories, too. For example, in Brazil, Frozen retains its English title with a subtitle translating to "A Frozen Adventure." Same in Portugal, although its subtitle was "The Ice Kingdom."

As DisneyFan09 said, in Spain that happened as well. Personally, I don't like when they do that. They add a subtitle to compensate for the fact that many people won't understand the untranslated part of the title. I rather they just translated the original title.

[Sotiris]

I'm surprised though that Maribel is a well-known name outside Spain and Latin America. It's a common name here in Spain, but not as much as Carmen or María, for example, which are the only ones I thought most foreigners knew.

Don't underestimate the power of telenovelas! Those shows are exported all over the world and are quite popular.

By the way, Maribel is the shortened version for María Isabel, while apparently Mirabel is a full name.

I prefer the name Isabel to both Maribel and Mirabel, but I understand they might wanted to avoid confusion with Princess Isabel from Elena of Avalor.

Rachel Zegler, I think she could've been cast despite not being too well-known yet. After all, Disney has cast unknown actors in the past, like for example, Auli'i Cravalho as Moana.

Auli'i was Musker & Clement's pick. By his own admission, LMM didn't have a lot of creative control on Moana (probably because he was hired prior to Hamilton's success) whereas with Encanto he'll be heavily involved with all aspects of production. I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up getting a co-director or producer credit on the film.

Personally, I don't like when they do that. They add a subtitle to compensate for the fact that many people won't understand the untranslated part of the title. I rather they just translated the original title.

Agreed. Just translate the actual title instead of adding a long and unnecessary subtitle to it.

[Farerb]

Just like how Howard Ashman got Jodi Benson to be on The Little Mermaid. Nepotism.

[D82]

Don't underestimate the power of telenovelas! Those shows are exported all over the world and are quite popular.

Oh, now I get it.

[Sotiris]

Just like how Howard Ashman got Jodi Benson to be on The Little Mermaid. Nepotism.

Technically, it's cronyism as they weren't related. And I never claimed this sort of thing never happened before at Disney. At least, Howard had good taste and an eye for talent and knew how to direct his singers accordingly.

[D82]

Lin-Manuel Miranda talks about the movie in a new interview in Spanish (translated by Google):

The other animated project that Lin-Manuel is extremely excited about is "Encanto", from Disney Studios, which is due to premiere in November of this year.

This would be the artist's fourth collaboration as a composer with the house of Mickey Mouse, after having composed music for "Star Wars: The Force Awakens", "Moana" and the new version, with actors, of "The Little Mermaid". But with "Encanto" -whose action is located in Colombia, the sensation, he assures, is different.

"We have been working for three years. In 2018 we traveled to Colombia. We had a number of advisers on Colombian culture and I was fascinated by that research process. It's a great story about family. There are three generations: grandmother, uncles, cousins, brothers, mother".

"I'm still composing songs for ‘Encanto’. I was in the project from the beginning and I had the opportunity to give my input on what I understand that Latinos want to see in a story about our culture and our values".

[DisneyFan97]

Lin-Manuel Miranda talks about the movie in a new interview in Spanish (translated by Google):

The other animated project that Lin-Manuel is extremely excited about is "Encanto", from Disney Studios, which is due to premiere in November of this year.

This would be the artist's fourth collaboration as a composer with the house of Mickey Mouse, after having composed music for "Star Wars: The Force Awakens", "Moana" and the new version, with actors, of "The Little Mermaid". But with "Encanto" -whose action is located in Colombia, the sensation, he assures, is different.

"We have been working for three years. In 2018 we traveled to Colombia. We had a number of advisers on Colombian culture and I was fascinated by that research process. It's a great story about family. There are three generations: grandmother, uncles, cousins, brothers, mother".

"I'm still composing songs for ‘Encanto’. I was in the project from the beginning and I had the opportunity to give my input on what I understand that Latinos want to see in a story about our culture and our values".

So there is gonna be be a grandmother character in the movie ?

Fun ! I like Mulan and Moana's Grandmas so am think i am gonna like this one

[D82]

So there is gonna be be a grandmother character in the movie ?

Yes, The DisInsider already revealed some details about her some weeks ago:

Lastly, there is Andrea who is the matriarch of the family. At 75 years old, she is strong and determined, sometimes to a fault. With a dry wit and a tough presence, she doesn’t let anybody get in her way.

By the way, now that we know that the family will include uncles and cousins, I wonder if Camilo or some of the other characters that have been revealed will be actually Mirabel's cousins instead of siblings or neighbours.

[Sotiris]

By the way, now that we know that the family will include uncles and cousins, I wonder if Camilo or some of the other characters that have been revealed will be actually Mirabel's cousins instead of siblings or neighbours.

Yes, it's likely that Dolores and Camilo are her cousins which could explain why they are Black while the rest of the family isn't.

Honestly, aside from the fact it's a musical, this project doesn't feel very Disney to me. The extended family, the grandmother being the stern matriarch, the design of the house, the village setting, the magical realism genre etc., make it feel more like a Pixar, Netflix or Sony movie. I fear that as time progresses, the studio's identity will get more and more diluted until WDAS becomes just another animation studio that does anything and everything.

[Farerb]

You already had the 2000's and Wreck-it Ralph and Big Hero 6 and Zootopia and you're coming to this conclusion now just with this film?

Even Walt Disney himself didn't make just one genre of films.

[Jules]

By the way, now that we know that the family will include uncles and cousins, I wonder if Camilo or some of the other characters that have been revealed will be actually Mirabel's cousins instead of siblings or neighbours.

Yes, it's likely that Dolores and Camilo are her cousins which could explain why they are Black while the rest of the family isn't.

Honestly, aside from the fact it's a musical, this project doesn't feel very Disney to me. The extended family, the grandmother being the stern matriarch, the design of the house, the village setting, the magical realism genre etc., make it feel more like a Pixar, Netflix or Sony movie. I fear that as time progresses, the studio's identity will get more and more diluted until WDAS becomes just another animation studio that does anything and everything.

And that's why I like it.

Honestly, I don't really care if a WDAS film feels like one or not as long as it is made with love and passion, and those qualities come through in the finished film.

I've said the following many times before and don't want to sound like a broken record, but it bears repeating. WDAS is under no obligation to create a specific type of film purely to placate conservative Disney fans. Those who constantly whine that a project is "unDisney" or anything of the sort are the very people undermining the creativity and diversity of the films the studio creates (and often they are the same ones who complain about sameness!)

Let the studio spread its wings and try new stuff. So they want to make a film with a Pixar sensibility? Let them. What's wrong with that? If Pixar wants to create a film with a WDAS vibe they can too. I will not complain. I would be even happier if WDAS were to try completely different things outside their comfort zone (which goes well beyond the supposed "Pixar style.")

In my perfect world, every WDAS film would be vastly different from the one before it, with the occasional interjection of a stylistically and tonally very traditional and old-school film to spice things up (or to serve as a control, sort of like the cheese wine tasters sample between different wines. )

I still cannot understand why so many are still opposed to this and still expect WDAS to be creative and innovative to a certain point, after which it becomes overdone, unDisney or untrue to their roots.

You know what? For their patchy track record, I absolutely love Sony Pictures Animation, because it is clear the studio is not tied up in any particular style of film and are willing to try anything (following Spiderverse, at least.) They even boast about not having a house style! I see that as an asset and not a "lack of identity." Wish other USA animation studios had the balls to try a similar approach.

TO CLARIFY, I am not saying that if I held Jennifer Lee's position I would nix any "traditional" and "old-school" features in development at WDAS. On the contrary I would ensure that the studio regularly puts out both films that are a total 180 from what the general public expects from them (be it in terms of storytelling, writing, animation, or design), but also the type of films that people associate with the studio (e.g. Broadway-style musicals, narratives steeped in existing Disney tropes that people will still enjoy as something new but simultaneously nostalgic and familiar.) I would also aim for the occasional PG-13 film, which we all know the Disney brand can handle just fine (perhaps something on a lower budget and dealing with more adult themes, a la Miyazaki's The Wind Rises, which is in many respects a movie for adults that children can still watch as there is no profanity, sex or even nudity in it.)

And yes, I am absolutely glad the WDAS canon has both Wreck-It Ralph and Ralph Breaks the Internet in it. With the latter, in particular (which I think is a very good film, though I am sure it goes against popular opinion here. ) I remain fascinated that the same canon that contains classical fairy tales also has a movie about the internet. Love it or hate it, I adore having such eclecticism in the official WDAS canon!

Anybody remember Wild Life? You know, the cancelled CG WDAS feature about an anthropomorphic elephant who makes it big in show business, and which was being developed as a film for an older audience. (Also the movie about being down man holes ) I wish it got made, so I could proudly display its spine next to Snow White and Lady and the Tramp on my blu-ray shelf! Now that would have been a statement from WDAS!

And ... *shocker* , I haven't seen Soul yet, but I would have been over the moon if WDAS had made it. Now there's a project that is more Pixar than Pixar, yet I would have had no problem seeing it emerge from Disney Animation!










This is Jules, last surviving Disney animation optimist, signing off.












Sorry for killing you off estefan!

[estefan]

Regarding whether Encanto is too unDisney, I'm sure Lilo & Stitch was seen to have elements that were seen as unDisney prior to its release: aliens, surfing, Elvis songs, social workers, intergalactic space battles, Chris Sander's unique art style influencing the entire look of the film. Since the design of the house in Encanto is being brought up as being unDisney, I guess I will throw Lilo and Nani's house in there, too. The marketing was even all about how Stitch didn't fit at all with the typical Disney character. And yet it became one of the most popular and beloved Disney films. It's one of my favourites, so I wouldn't want Chris Sanders and Dean DeBlois to have made it any other way.

I do sometimes wonder what it would have been like if this forum existed in late '99, early 2000 when it was revealed "Kingdom of the Sun" was transformed from a grand Incan epic with plenty of the expected Disney ingredients into "The Emperor's New Groove", a wacky buddy road trip comedy with Looney Tunes-inspired humour (Mark Dindal even revealed in a recent retrospective of New Groove that his favourite review of the movie was one that said it was more Warner Bros than Disney). What would the reaction be?

[Farerb]

The reaction to both Emperor's New Groove and Lilo and Stitch would have been fine because these vague descriptions that don't really say anything about this film are not really the issue. I think everyone knows it.

Since Byron Howard was the one who fixed Bolt and Tangled and did just fine with Zootopia, I have much more faith in him than anyone else working at WDAS currently, I know most of them are new so I'm giving them a chance.

It's funny because a while ago I thought about how both WDAS and Pixar are very much inspired by the way Walt Disney used to do it, only each took a different approach that I think Glen Keane described the best: Disney is "Once Upon a Time" and Pixar is "Wouldn't it be cool if?". But if you notice Walt also did the "Wouldn't it be cool if?" approach with some of his films like Fantasia and Dumbo and 101 Dalmatians. And it's no wonder that one of Pete Docter's favorite films is Dumbo and he describes it as "elegant simplicity" and I do think his films like Monsters Inc and Up are more inspired by Dumbo and others than the films made by WDAS. Just like WDAS films' sources are more Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Cinderella, etc...

[Sotiris]

You already had the 2000's and Wreck-it Ralph and Big Hero 6 and Zootopia and you're coming to this conclusion now just with this film?

It's been happening for a while. WDAS' identity is being chipped away little by little. It was bad enough with all the foreign elements in their stories such as the buddy road trip formula, stock characters like the obnoxious male lead, meta humor, and even subject matter in certain cases. Recent developments such as hiring outside directors, especially ones who have no background in animation and want to tell personal stories, making co-productions with other studios, and expoiting their library with series and shorts, make me believe things are going to get worse. I understand that some don't see this as an issue, but I do.

[Farerb]

I don't see how "a couple of rodents looking for a theme park" is any different than the meta humor done today. This kind of humor have existed since at least Aladdin, though I'd say that that particular line would have felt out of place even in Aladdin. The obnoxious male lead only really replaced the obnoxious sidekicks so at least now they get some sort of development.

[estefan]

There was also Scar cringing at Zazu singing "it's a small world" in The Lion King, not to mention the meta gags in A Goofy Movie (it honestly still blows my mind that Walt Disney somehow exists in the Mickey-Goofy-Donald universe). So even Disney making fun of or referencing themselves isn't new to the current era.

It was bad enough with all the foreign elements in their stories such as the buddy road trip formula, stock characters like the obnoxious male lead, meta humor

All elements present in "The Emperor's New Groove", a film released over twenty years ago. Although New Groove has grown into a beloved film with a significant following, so it wouldn't surprise me if it influenced the current artists and writers working at the studio today. There are even recent and/or current Disney animation directors like Chris Williams, Don Hall and Stephen J. Anderson, who were part of the story team for New Groove.

[Farerb]

There was also Scar cringing at Zazu singing "it's a small world" in The Lion King, not to mention the meta gags in A Goofy Movie (it honestly still blows my mind that Walt Disney somehow exists in the Mickey-Goofy-Donald universe). So even Disney making fun of or referencing themselves isn't new to the current era.

I agree, it's really nothing new. I even know some fans of Walt Disney and his work (Not Disney as a whole but Walt and his film) and they mention how the humor in the 90's films felt inferior to them, like how the subtle comedy of something like the Dwarfs or the mice has been replaced to basically a stand-up comedy. I also saw a video essay about the scoring in Walt's films and how sometimes the music is used instead of sound effects (he called it musical "mickey mousing"), and that's really not present in the Eisner era onward. Really the Revival films are more similar to the 90's films than the 90's films are similar to Walt's films.

So the way I see it is that Disney, like any other company, needs to readjust according to the current audience and when they failed to do so they weren't successful, like after The Lion King and before Tangled. I guess if I stayed in the mentality of wanting these films to be exactly the way they used to when I was a kid then I probably still wouldn't have liked Disney like I used not to like them in the 2000's. But to me now it's about keeping the "essence" (mostly characters I can connect with and good music) while playing around with other elements (like the humor, the plot, the story). But that's how I see it.

[Sotiris]

These vague descriptions that don't really say anything about this film are not really the issue.

With Over the Moon you said that you didn't like the magic realism angle or the contemporary setting and that you would have preferred a traditional take on the story of Chang'e which is something I agree with. So, how come now you are in favor of those same elements being present in Encanto?

Since Byron Howard was the one who fixed Bolt and Tangled and did just fine with Zootopia.

Saying he "fixed" Bolt implies there was something wrong with American Dog which you can't possibly know since no one has seen that version. All the things that were cited at the time as not working with that film came from Lasseter's camp to excuse Chris Sanders' firing and can't be trusted.

I don't see how "a couple of rodents looking for a theme park" is any different than the meta humor done today.

The difference is that Hercules and The Emperor's New Groove established the irreverent, metatextual tone from the start, so humor like that made sense and felt organic. With Aladdin, only the Genie, a magical being outside time and space, made that type of humor. Other characters didn't even understand what he was saying. It was a conceit that allowed this type of humor without making it feel forced. There's a big difference to a story like Moana which is played straight and all of a sudden jokes about Twitter and Disney Princesses pop up.

The obnoxious male lead only really replaced the obnoxious sidekicks so at least now they get some sort of development.

Not really since the obnoxious sidekicks are still present.

There was also Scar cringing at Zazu singing "it's a small world" in The Lion King.

I didn't like that either. It felt out of place and would have been better if it wasn't included. Also, movies nowadays rely on meta humor more and use it in excess. It not just a one-off, throwaway reference.

[Farerb]

With Over the Moon you said that you didn't like the magic realism angle or the contemporary setting and that you have preferred a traditional take on the story of Chang'e which is something I agree with. So, how come now you are in favor of those same elements being present in Encanto?

Yes, I prefer when films are set in the past with good music, I even prefer when they are made in hand drawn animation, but I'm not writing them off if they aren't like that. I don't remember being that negative about Over the Moon before it came out, and I'd be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy films that are taken place in the present like Dumbo, 101 Dalmatians, Lilo and Stitch, Zootopia and some Pixar films.

The reason I'm saying this is that it seems that you have been extremely negative about this specific film, even more so than others, why? We barely have any information about it, it wasn't even explicitly said what time it takes place, it's really just an assumption at this point. Not saying that there's no possibly that I might be disappointed, but I really have nothing to be disappointed at this point and very few things to be excited for.

Saying he "fixed" Bolt implies there was something wrong with American Dog which you can't possibly know since no one has seen that version. All the things that were cited at the time as not working with that film came from Lasseter's camp to excuse Chris Sanders' firing and can't be trusted.

I don't know what went down there other than reading what is said on the internet and making conclusions based on how Disney operated in the 2000's and what Chris Sanders has done since he left. By the way Chris Sanders is exactly the kind of directors who want to tell personal stories and Lilo & Stitch is that kind of project. IIRC Chris Sanders came up with Stitch back in the 80's for a different kind of project.

The difference is that Hercules and The Emperor's New Groove established the irreverent, metatextual tone from the start, so humor like that made sense and felt organic. There's a big difference to a story like Moana which is played straight and all of a sudden jokes about Twitter and Disney Princesses pop up.

I agree about The Emperor's New Groove, disagree about Hercules. To me Hercules has too many tone problems that either the comedic moments undermine the dramatic ones or otherwise. The film wants us to take the "Stars alignment" very seriously but then when we get to the climax, it's basically tossed away, or playing it for laughs when just a moment before Meg was crushed to death in a serious manner, and then when it's over, Hercules is like "oops I forgot". That to me is a much more serious issue than a couple of jokes when Moana had comedic moments since its beginning (the kids crying, the pork, the tattoo, hei-hei, Tala in general, etc...). Not saying that I liked these particular two jokes and they are the weakest parts of the movie to me, but they are not enough to ruin the movie for me as a whole, not as much as Hercules' payoff being tossed away (and I like Hercules but it never resonated with me emotionally because of that). Anyway, that was Hercules, what are The Lion King, Mulan and Tarzan excuses of having a very dramatic and serious first act and then come the comedic sidekick at the start of the second bringing their out-of-place humor like fart jokes, mentioning sleeping beauty or playing dress up? What are the gargoyles excuse of ruining a serious dramatic operetta?

And just to make it clear I don't hate the Renaissance films, but I don't put them on a pedestal, they're good but not perfect.

Not really since the obnoxious sidekicks are still present.

With the exception of Olaf, Rey and Louis, I don't find any of the sidekicks obnoxious (it helps when they don't talk), and Olaf is only because of his overexposure, I was perfectly fine with him in the first film.