The Little Mermaid (Live-Action)

[Redadoodles]

Oh, I completely disagree. I don’t think Eric needs to prove anything to King Triton and I’ve never interpreted that scene that way— I think Prince Eric saves the day against Giant Ursula because that’s what happened in Sleeping Beauty which those animators grew up with.

Now, I love The Little Mermaid but I think one of its faults is the ending. It’s not Eric’s story— it’s Ariel’s. I think it would be a much more powerful ending to have Ariel solve her problems and prove to King Triton that she can watch out for herself and fix her own problems. That’s the heart of the story— the father/daughter relationship.

The people who made The Little Mermaid originally had Ariel defeat Ursula herself. Jeffery Katzenburg had it changed.

My thoughts on whether Ariel should defeat Ursula or not are just...whatever. Just make it work. Just make it good. Make sure Eric is more than just there along with whatever Ariel does and whatever Ariel does make it good.

Are you referring to this version of the climax ?
https://youtu.be/D0XObD1-U5Q

[Sotiris]

Something tells me she won't be purple, but that's me just speculating.

I hope she isn't, to be honest. When they paint actors up for a role, it rarely looks good. It's an element that works well in animation, but not so much in live-action. I don't think Jolie would have looked nearly as good as she did in Maleficent, had they painted her green. I also didn't like they kept the Genie blue in the Aladdin remake.

I tend to think that Disney movies, or any romance for that matter, works best when the characters in the relationship save each other. I’m hoping they find a way to do that, because I do think there’s importance to Eric doing something to show Triton all humans aren’t bad and that he truly cares for Ariel. But I also think Ariel deserves a big moment too.

I can see both sides of this argument. On the one hand, it is Ariel's story and Ursula getting a hold of the trident is Ariel's fault, so she should be the one who corrects her mistake and saves the day. On the other, Eric does need to prove himself in Triton's eyes that he's worthy of his daughter and that not all humans are bad. That was a consideration for the directors as well since in the original ending Triton uttered in astonishment "That human saved my life." In any case, I'm with nomad2010 on this one. I think they should work together to take Ursula down. What better way to highlight they are right for each other, they compliment each other and will be in an equal partnership as a couple than working as a team to take down their enemy? If they do have Ariel defeat Ursula on her own, I hope they come up with a different way than how Eric did in the animated film 'cause Ariel wouldn't know how to steer a ship. In general, I'd prefer they show Ariel using her wits to defeat her over using her physical strength.

I think Halle Bailey was an inspired choice. I’ve listened to her sing more since she was announced for the role and her voice has an almost hypnotic quality. Jodi Benson has a beautiful voice and I could listen to her read a phone book but Bailey has a siren-like quality that I think will suit the character well also.

I would have preferred someone who was classically trained and had a musical background. Part of Your World is a difficult song to get right. From the actors we heard were in contention for the role, I was rooting for Hailey Kilgore.

I quite like the logo too. It's better than most of the ones these remakes get. It's curious; it seems more inspired by the logo for the Broadway musical than by the one for the original film.

While I like the logo too, there's something about it that looks a bit unfinished or unpolished. Also, I think I would have liked the "M" ending in a pair of fins, or would that have looked too chessy?

[Redadoodles]

I can see both sides of this argument. On the one hand, it is Ariel's story and Ursula getting a hold of the trident is Ariel's fault, so she should be the one who corrects her mistake and saves the day. On the other, Eric does need to prove himself in Triton's eyes that he's worthy of his daughter and that not all humans are bad. That was a consideration for the directors as well since in the original ending Triton uttered in astonishment "That human saved my life." In any case, I'm with nomad2010 on this one. I think they should work together to take Ursula down.

I agree with everything you wrote aside from the fact that it's Triton's fault if Ursula ended up with the trident. He decided to sacrifice the kingdom, his daughters and himself to save Ariel. Not the smartest decision.

[Disney's Divinity]

Eh, I'd still prefer Ariel destroy her own self-created villain, especially one who's just harmed her father and plans to harm her friends / family. I would guarantee Ursula will not die the same way she does in the original film, since that's way too racy for today's audiences... Heck, with all the other changes they've made, I wouldn't be surprised if there's no Giant Ursula at all, sadly. I'm already expecting electric eels, a musical contest, and no Vanessa at this point (or at least not a Vanessa that's an alterego to Ursula anyway).

As for Ursula's color, I wouldn't mind if she was purple the way Genie's blue in the new Aladdin, but I don't really expect it. I'd be satisfied if they gave her a sort of purple sheen around the edges of her skin and simply made her more of a deathly pale color.

[D82]

While I like the logo too, there's something about it that looks a bit unfinished or unpolished. Also, I think I would have liked the "M" ending in a pair of fins, or would that have looked too chessy?

It kind of does if we consider the curved part of the "D" a fin, though I don't know if that's intentional or just an accident. Speaking of that, are there fins in the Broadway logo? I've always wondered whether the curved line that links the "E", "R" and "A" in "Mermaid" is meant to represent a mermaid tail or an ocean wave. Now I have the same doubt about the new logo as well.

[Disney Duster]

Are you referring to this version of the climax ?
https://youtu.be/D0XObD1-U5Q

I don't think so, because Ariel doesn't defeat Ursula in that.

Eh, I'd still prefer Ariel destroy her own self-created villain, especially one who's just harmed her father and plans to harm her friends / family. I would guarantee Ursula will not die the same way she does in the original film, since that's way too racy for today's audiences... Heck, with all the other changes they've made, I wouldn't be surprised if there's no Giant Ursula at all, sadly. I'm already expecting electric eels, a musical contest, and no Vanessa at this point (or at least not a Vanessa that's an alterego to Ursula anyway).

As for Ursula's color, I wouldn't mind if she was purple the way Genie's blue in the new Aladdin, but I don't really expect it. I'd be satisfied if they gave her a sort of purple sheen around the edges of her skin and simply made her more of a deathly pale color.

They cast a girl we think will be Vanessa already.

I like your idea for a pale, deathly, slight purple-sheened Ursula.

While I like the logo too, there's something about it that looks a bit unfinished or unpolished. Also, I think I would have liked the "M" ending in a pair of fins, or would that have looked too chessy?

It kind of does if we consider the curved part of the "D" a fin, though I don't know if that's intentional or just an accident. Speaking of that, are there fins in the Broadway logo? I've always wondered whether the curved line that links the "E", "R" and "A" in "Mermaid" is meant to represent a mermaid tail or an ocean wave. Now I have the same doubt about the new logo as well.

It's not cheesy for a tail with fins in the logo Sotiris. The Broadway show did it. It's definitely a tail with fins and not a wave D82, because ths wave would not be split in two at one end. Good idea about the "D" maybe being part of the fins in the movie logo!

[Sotiris]

I agree with everything you wrote aside from the fact that it's Triton's fault if Ursula ended up with the trident. He decided to sacrifice the kingdom, his daughters and himself to save Ariel. Not the smartest decision.

That's not what I said. I said it was Ariel's fault, not Triton's. It was her deal with Ursula that ultimately led to her getting the trident.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's no Giant Ursula at all, sadly.

I have a feeling they won't do the giant Ursula either. I mean, if they omitted the giant cobra in the Aladdin remake, who says they won't do the same here.

Speaking of that, are there fins in the Broadway logo? Now I have the same doubt about the new logo as well.

Yes, that's definitely meant to be a fin in the Broadway logo. The remake logo, I don't think so. Because of the letter's placement and lack of stylization, it's highly unlikely it was meant to be seen as a fin.

Congrats on your first avatar, by the way! Gummi Bears is a great choice.

[Redadoodles]

I agree with everything you wrote aside from the fact that it's Triton's fault if Ursula ended up with the trident. He decided to sacrifice the kingdom, his daughters and himself to save Ariel. Not the smartest decision.

That's not what I said. I said it was Ariel's fault, not Triton's. It was her deal with Ursula that ultimately led to her getting the trident.

Haha I know it's not what you said and I'm telling you that I think it was Triton's fault that Ursula ended up getting the trident.

[Sotiris]

Sorry, I misunderstood. The sentence structure you used confused me. I don't think we can really blame any parent for sacrificing themselves for their child though.

[Disney's Divinity]

Congrats on your first avatar, by the way! Gummi Bears is a great choice.

I think so, too.

[D82]

The Broadway show did it. It's definitely a tail with fins and not a wave D82, because the wave would not be split in two at one end.

You're right, a wave wouldn't be split in two like that. Now I see it's definitely a tail. It's what I thought was more likely, but I wasn't completely sure.

Yes, that's definitely meant to be a fin in the Broadway logo. The remake logo, I don't think so. Because of the letter's placement and lack of stylization, it's highly unlikely it was meant to be seen as a fin.

I guess you're right about the remake logo. If it was meant to be a tail, they would've made it more evident.

Congrats on your first avatar, by the way! Gummi Bears is a great choice.

I think so, too.

Thank you both! I don't know if I'll stick with it or if I'll change it later on, but I felt I needed an avatar because I've noticed lately that my posts are easy to miss. Between the lack of an avatar and the short username I have, even I sometimes have trouble finding my comments when I want to go back and check something from one of them. And yes, I love Gummy Bears. It's my favorite Disney animated show (closely followed by the original DuckTales), so I thought it could be a good choice, at least for now.

[Redadoodles]

Sorry, I misunderstood. The sentence structure you used confused me. I don't think we can really blame any parent for sacrificing themselves for their child though.

I would agree with you if Ariel was an only child but she is not.
Not only Triton abandons his other daughters but also the rest of his kingdom. He knew very well that by sacrificing himself he would let Ursula rule and therefore doom all of Atlantica. His sacrifice is noble to an extent but the negative outcome that comes with it is way more noticeable.

[Sotiris]

I would agree with you if Ariel was an only child but she is not. Not only Triton abandons his other daughters but also the rest of his kingdom. He knew very well that by sacrificing himself he would let Ursula rule and therefore doom all of Atlantica. His sacrifice is noble to an extent but the negative outcome that comes with it is way more noticeable.

I think you're being too hard on him. I doubt he was cognizant of the consequences in that moment. Sometimes you're caught up in fear or panic and you don't think things through. Besides, it was Ariel who was in immediate danger. His other daughters were back in the palace and they could have easily run away or hidden or found some other way to protect themselves. The same goes for his subjects.

[Redadoodles]

It's true that I am being a little too hard on him but let's not forget that Triton is a king and therefore should be able to take the time to make a decision, especially when the repercussion could be extremely catastrophic to the whole kingdom.
When Ursula offered him to trade his life against Ariel's, it was very clear that it was because she wanted to Trident so Triton should have known that all hell would break loose once he'd sacrifice himself.
Either way, just like his daughter, Triton does come across as being quite impulsive (just look at the way he destroyed Ariel's grotto) so I guess that just runs in the family.
The only reason I'm "attacking" him is because people seem to blame Ariel for a lot in this film when in fact she only put her own life in danger.

[Sotiris]

Either way, just like his daughter, Triton does come across as being quite impulsive (just look at the way he destroyed Ariel's grotto) so I guess that just runs in the family.

Oh, he's definitely a flawed character. Personally, I think it's more unforgivable he destroyed Ariel's collection that giving Ursula his trident.

The only reason I'm "attacking" him is because people seem to blame Ariel for a lot in this film when in fact she only put her own life in danger.

It's true, Ariel gets criticized too much and sometimes unfairly so.

[Disney's Divinity]

I don't really blame him for giving her the trident. On the one hand, a King should think of his citizens' welfare first. On the other hand, as Ariel's father he couldn't allow Ursula to torture Ariel forever* (and Ursula would have treated her much worse than any of the others, I'm sure). Another thought is that Ursula was very old just like him. However horrible she might've been, she would've died of old age in a decade or less and since she had no heirs, one of his daughters would likely takeover after her. I think both Ariel and Triton are to blame for putting everyone at risk, but Ariel generally receives more of the blame from viewers because her reason for signing the deal was ultimately self-motivated whereas Triton giving up his trident was out of love for his daughter.

* The one thing that I think weakens the film is the cut dialogue about all of Ursula's poor souls dying with her. They had to change that for there to be a happy ending (could you imagine how much hatred Ariel would get if Triton had died at the end....), but it would be a stronger story at the same time if it was included somehow. In that early version, the only reason Triton doesn't just kill Ursula immediately is because Ariel would have died, too. There was also dialogue where he requires the safety of all his daughters as part of the deal with Ursula as well. I'm not sure how they would have included it while still providing a happy ending. Perhaps something about Eric killing her (either because he's a human or because he was willing to sacrifice himself) or perhaps the part where she electrocutes herself once being rammed could have become a story point--something along the lines of the trident rejecting her because of her power abuse in the climax (trying to kill Eric, Flounder, Sebastian, and Ariel) and thus nullifying her deals somehow since she "destroyed herself"?

[Sotiris]

I think both Ariel and Triton are to blame for putting everyone at risk, but Ariel generally receives more of the blame from viewers because her reason for signing the deal was ultimately self-motivated whereas Triton giving up his trident was out of love for his daughter.

I think a lot of criticism hurled at Ariel stems from people conflating self-care with selfishness. It's not selfish to want to find love or pursue a romance that's considered taboo. Ariel's love for a human can be seen as a metaphor for interracial or same-sex relationships. It's not selfish to want to emigrate to a different country when you find life in your homeland unfulfilling. Ariel's love for a different land and culture than her own can be seen as an immigrant story. Critics also tend to forget that Ariel was driven to Ursula out of despair and hopelessness caused by Triton's actions. Had he not destroyed her grotto, she wouldn't have entertained making a deal with her.

The one thing that I think weakens the film is the cut dialogue about all of Ursula's poor souls dying with her. They had to change that for there to be a happy ending, but it would be a stronger story at the same time if it was included somehow. In that early version, the only reason Triton doesn't just kill Ursula immediately is because Ariel would have died, too.

Cutting it was for the best, in my opinion. It's too elaborate and unnecessary. Putting aside the ethics of it, if Triton wasn't able to void Ursula and Ariel's deal because he was bound by law, it stands to reason he couldn't straight up murder Ursula either.

There was also dialogue where he requires the safety of all his daughters as part of the deal with Ursula as well.

I admit that would have been nice.

[Disney's Divinity]

I think a lot of criticism hurled at Ariel stems from people conflating self-care with selfishness.

Some of it is, yes. Ultimately, her decision-making was focused on herself though.

Cutting it was for the best, in my opinion. It's too elaborate and unnecessary. Putting aside the ethics of it, if Triton wasn't able to void Ursula and Ariel's deal because he was bound by law, it stands to reason he couldn't straight up murder Ursula either.

I don't think so. Otherwise Eric wouldn't have been able to kill Ursula a few minutes later. I think they were assuming viewers wouldn't think too much about it for the drama to play out; it makes Triton look dumb for giving power over to a despot when he could have just killed her instead of waiting for Eric to do it.

[Sotiris]

I don't think so. Otherwise Eric wouldn't have been able to kill Ursula a few minutes later.

I'm having trouble following you. How does Eric being able to kill Ursula have anything to do with whether or not Triton had the ability to kill her? Eric was an outsider whereas Triton was the ruler of Atlantica. If he wasn't bound by the laws of his kingdom and could just do whatever he wanted, he would have no problem voiding the deal. The contract itself wasn't magical, it was just legal. Ursula said: "The contract's legal, binding, and completely unbreakable. Even for you."

[Disney's Divinity]

That's where we differ, I guess. I see the contract as magical. It couldn't simply be legal because an absolute monarch decides what the law is and Triton wouldn't be beholden to her in that way? And there's nothing in Ariel's contract that would make it off-limits for Triton to be the one to kill Ursula, so it's not like he would have been violating some legal principle if he was the one who did her in instead of Eric. If anything, Eric's more likely to be a part of the contract than Triton, since Ariel having to kiss him was part of the deal.