Hercules Discussion

[The_Iceflash]

"I Won't Say" works, but the inclusion of the Muses ruin it for me. They sing three other songs in the film (not counting the "Gospel Truth" reprises), which raises them to star status. Also, the fact that they're backing Meg up makes the audience lazy. They should be able to form their own opinion about what Meg's really feeling, and with the Muses doing it, it's like "Why am I even watching this"?

It's funny that this is the one thing in which Disney stayed true to the way mythical stories were performed in theaters in ancient Greece, where the Muses would tell to the audience what the hero was thinking.

Putting historical accuracies aside (even though they were all myths....and as such this is Disney's version of the myth) I don't see why people shun this movie.

I have always had very little patience with people who write off Hercules because of so-called "historical inaccuracies". It's based on ancient Greek myths, so how "accurate" do people think those were? Was there really a mighty thunder-god like Zeus who slept around with human women?

Then people complain: "well, it doesn't follow the original myths". Which is a silly argument, because first of all, there are very few 'original' myths. The most myths we know of today come from later Roman writers and poets who have written down in literary form the ancient Greek myths, which were passed orally. Second, myths differed greatly from town to town, so you can see the Disney-version as just another variation.

But seriously, anybody who raises such incredibly dumb objections hasn't figured out what a 'parody' is. Disney is parodying many modern phenomena, using the ancient Greece culture only as a backdrop.

Personally, I like Hercules. Not by far the best of the 1990's films, but definitly better than The Lion King. I seriously disagree with Rudy Matt, who said the film should have been more restraint. It is exactly the tone and the pace that make it such a good film. Had it been more restrained, the clever humor wouldn't have come off half as good.

One last thought: I love Megara! The first woman in a Disney-film who is really different from all the others. She's sarcastic, unimpressed by the male hero, wants to do things her way. Characters like Belle and Jasmine don't even come close to Meg.

I agree. People complain about Hunchback because of inaccuracies. I say, "Who cares?" It's a great movie. If they choose not to like it because of that it's their loss.

[Disney's Divinity]

Disliking the film for manipulating the myths is kind of the silliest excuse someone could give for not liking the film. Nearly every Disney film there's been has strayed from their source material, sometimes a little and other times a lot. Even old Walt-era classics that generally retain the original stories' moods bounced at times, such as with The Jungle Book , Alice In Wonderland or The Sword in the Stone. The only film where objecting to inaccuracies might have even a little merit would be with Pocahontas, because that was a fairly recent, real woman they were telling a story of, not just some legend, myth or fairy tale.

And, personally, I find this film much more entertaining than either Aladdin and The Emperor's New Groove, as far as their modern comedies go--Aladdin being the most dated of the three, imo. In fact, I think they all take alternative routes with their comedy: Aladdin relies mostly on Williams' antics and celebrity imitations, Hercules pokes at the general quirks and silliness of [modern] society and The Emperor's New Groove's comedy is mostly story-driven or slapstick.

[PixarFan2006]

Hercules was one of the last true DACs I remember seeing in theatres (Not counting any Pixar film or Enchanted.). I have not seen the movie in its entirety since then, even though I recently bought the GC DVD.

I don't consider Hercules to be my favorite Disney film (Which would either be 101 Dalmatians or Aladdin) nor do I consider it to be my least favorite (Which would either be Pocahontas or Cinderella).

[CampbellzSoup]

I just watched it again tonight...wow how awesome is this movie?

Sure it's a little light hearted, but it does have tense scenes...plus it gave Hades a character besides typical rotten Disney villian.

I can go the distance should be up there with best Disney songs...it's a great inspirational piece.

[ajmrowland]

The only film where objecting to inaccuracies might have even a little merit would be with Pocahontas, because that was a fairly recent, real woman they were telling a story of, not just some legend, myth or fairy tale.

I know this is a long time coming, but Pocahontas was criticized for "aging" the main character, and creating a love story between her and John Smith. Not because of portraying her as a myth, or legend.

[Disney's Divinity]

I think you must've misread my post. What I meant was that people had more of a reason to object with Pocahontas's historical inaccuracies because Pocahontas was a real woman and not a legend, myth or fairy tale. So, my opinion agrees with the criticism of Pocahontas being aged for a love story.

That doesn't mean I hate Pocahontas though. I'm just saying that complaints over inaccuracies would only have justification for that particular film because we actually know for sure it happened (and we know most of how it happened, and not through the Disney way).

[ajmrowland]

I think you must've misread my post. What I meant was that people had more of a reason to object with Pocahontas's historical inaccuracies because Pocahontas was a real woman and not a legend, myth or fairy tale. So, my opinion agrees with the criticism of Pocahontas being aged for a love story.

That doesn't mean I hate Pocahontas though. I'm just saying that complaints over inaccuracies would only have justification for that particular film because we actually know for sure it happened (and we know most of how it happened, and not through the Disney way).

Oops! I guess I did misread your post.

[schoollover]

I think hercules is a nice film, nou the best, but still good. Though the scene with the hydrant, it looks too cgi ,unlike batb and other 90's films.

[DC Fan]

For starters, the name of the post should be Discussion Thread (as it´s the only one and easier to acknowledge). In case someone can change it.

Watched it yesterday.

As a Greek mythology fan it always bothered me the changes. Yes, Disney has done this always but not to that extent. More so when, if you think about it, the movie could just forget the whole thing of Hercules being the son of Hera and would have worked just the same.

Still, being a Disney fan, Hades being my favorite god and given him a new place to shy/be known (since he´s barely in Greek myths anyways and to have gone with Ares would have been the easy route) this movie is like a gift for me.

Other than the Hera change other thing I would have made it was to actually showcase his fights with the monsters. Instead of just showing them for a moment in Hero to Zero would have been better to see. Not to the extent of the Hydra fight but enough to enjoy.

Oh yes, also the Heracles thing. That was their chance for the movie to be much more a Disney thing/property and to spread the correct information through the world.

One more thing, ever since the release of the huge Hercules Funko wave I´ve noticed how much this movie is a beloved one. I seem to recall that back in the day wasn´t the case (one of the issues actually being the changed that Disney made if I´m not mistaken). So, how this happened?

PS

Sorry for all my participation but 1. it has been a while since I was active the forum, 2. I´m not creating new posts but using already made ones and 3. have been watching all the Disney Classics in order.

PS2

Just had a thought..While I wouldn´t change Hades as the villain, could you imagine how it would have been with Hera as the antagonist? That way Disney could somehow acknowledge that Hercules was a product of Zeus´ infidelity...Not to actually say that but come up with an excuse as to why she hated him. Would have been different yet an homage to the TV series. Also, since Hera´s animal is the peacock could have had one as a sidekick and/or incorporate it to her design; not only would have looked amazing but to have such a beautiful animal be related to a Disney Villain would have been unique.

[Farerb]

I'm not bothered by the changes Disney made. This isn't a serious film so it's fine. I find this film to be very entertaining even though I think it's a mess. I probably even love it more than Pocahontas, Mulan and Tarzan.

[DC Fan]

While I´m glad you don´t mind the changes that´s probably because you´re not a Greek mythology fan. I´m not saying changes couldn´t have been made -the Titans was one, having Pain and Panic be the snakes that tried to kill Hercules as baby; those work- that one in particular really hurts it.

Also, the design of the Baby Hercules I found horrible. I get they just wanted to recreate the style of the Greek art but still. Can´t understand why people like him.

...oh, and read what I added to the message in case you want to talk about it.

[Farerb]

I don't think Hera would have been the villain regardless because Disney wouldn't go against their idea of family and what constitutes "family friendly", especially back then.

I don't know if you're familiar with this film:
https://youtu.be/ErLWiy9TY_Q
I think you might like it more because it's supposedly more faithful and has Hera as the main antagonist.

[blackcauldron85]

I love that you are bumping these old threads to talk about the movies themselves!!

I'm not familiar with the original tales, so I can't speak on behalf of that. I have mixed thoughts on Hera being the bad guy. On one hand, my first thought was Disney wouldn't make a mom evil, but we had Scar, wicked stepmothers, Frollo in a sense...evil family members were a "thing." But the infidelity aspect- no way would that be in a Disney film, except for "Into the Woods" years later, right? And that wasn't hardcore, having a baby with someone else.

[JeanGreyForever]

Yeah, I'm shocked at the wave of love being poured out for this film now. It was long considered to be one of Disney's weakest efforts and in most circles (outside of millennials), it still is.

I like Greek mythology too so this film really rubs me the wrong way. I don't see why Hera couldn't have been the villain because it's not like Disney isn't known for their wicked stepmothers. Zeus and Hera are siblings so all they had to do was make Hera the evil aunt who doesn't want her throne taken by Hercules or never felt Zeus was a good ruler anyway and while she's stuck with him, she certainly has no desire to be stuck with his dolt of a son. This way you can escape the incest and infidelity and it would have been nice to have a female villain. Back when this film was Sindbad instead, there was a female villain anyway with Roseanne voicing her.

[Disney's Divinity]

I love the film, it's been in my top 3 with The Little Mermaid and The Sword in the Stone always, so I'm very happy it looks to have grown in popularity. I think there could be several reasons. Many people who grew up with it like I did showed it to their own children. Then there's Kingdom Hearts, which features Hercules in almost every game in the series. And there's also the fact that the movie gets re-runned all the time. It used to be that Disney would rarely show their best movies on TV (I'm referring to things like Cinderella, Snow White, B&tB, TLM, TLK), so often times the films Disney saw as "lesser" like Hercules got played more often. At least that's how it always seemed to me. Perhaps a great number of people ended up seeing it again (or for the first time) because of that, and found they liked it more than they remembered. In the '90s, I think the average person's reaction to this was that it was simply another film Disney had just put out that "wasn't as good as The Lion King" (like Pocahontas and Hunchback). The comparisons to TLK weakened the reactions to the later Renaissance films as much as anything else did. Since TLK happened so long ago now, and without that comparison hanging over the film like a cloud, maybe people could appreciate the film more on its own merits?

As far as what ifs about Hera, the one thing I've thought about that is that it would've been interesting to have had a male protagonist with a female villain. That doesn't happen often enough.

Watching this as a child before I actually knew anything about Greek mythology is actually what made me interested to learn about Greek mythology.

[Farerb]

I find it strange that this is the only film outside the big four that Disney changed the logo.

I always thought that it was compared to Aladdin, at least I think that what M&C tried to recreate.

[JeanGreyForever]

I find it strange that this is the only film outside the big four that Disney changed the logo.

I always thought that it was compared to Aladdin, at least I think that what M&C tried to recreate.

Generally Pocahontas gets most compared to The Little Mermaid (occasionally Beauty and the Beast because it was trying to win an Oscar for its portrayal of a nuanced romance like BATB), Hunchback gets compared to Beauty and the Beast, Hercules gets compared to Aladdin, and Tarzan gets compared to The Lion King.

[DC Fan]

Regarding my thoughts of Hera as the villain and implying Zeus´ infidelity what I meant is something similar to what JeanGreyForever said. It´s not that Disney would say it out loud but gave her an "excuse" to be the antagonist. Behind the scenes the directors/producers and we all would know that it was done as a matter of recognizing how Hercules was born and how it was an insult to her.

And come to think about it, Disney could have used her and Hades. A story like what JeanGreyForever said and in the process asking for Hades´ help to unite forces because he´d felt angry towards Zeus for having him rule the Underworld.

[JeanGreyForever]

They could have done the twist villain trope as far back as the 90s with the big reveal that Hades isn't the big bad after all, but it's in fact Hera. Sorta like in The Lightning Thief where Hades is presented as the villain but then we find out that actually it was Ares (who in turn is working for Kronos). Or the audience could be in on the fact that Hera and Hades are working together from the beginning.

That reminds me, I still hope Rick Riordan is able to make a deal with Disney to produce more films (or a TV series) for Percy Jackson and the Olympians. Now that actually did Greek mythology well and introduced a whole new generation to it, unlike this film.

[DisneyFan97]

Did you know that at first Disney didn't get Danny DeVito so a couple of other actors read for Philoctetes Those where Broadway legend Dick Latessa, Oscar-Winner Ernest Borgnin, Ed Asner from the both The Mary Tyler Moore Show and even old time comedian Red Buttons who was big in the 50s however as you could guess They eventually got their first pick( Danny DeVito).