Frozen II

[rodis]

It's too bad kids growing up nowadays rarely know what it feels like to unwrap a physical copy and indulge in the artwork and that smell of something new.

[JeanGreyForever]

They did it because of Corona to cheer people up and keep them entertained while they are sequestered at home.

[Clindor]

Well, I still think this is a sweet intention

(Frozen II is still one of their biggest hits from last year and knowing it got available on streaming less than a month after its physical support has been released it's still cool. And yes, I also think that some of this film themes may resonate with what a lot of people are facing now..)

I wouldn't be surprised though if the movie gets removed from the platform once the epidemic phenomenon becomes less important, to re-released at the former expected date in June.

[JeanGreyForever]

On social media, it's been spreading that Disney released it early to cover up the fallout of the Disney College Program being shut down and young students being kicked out and forced to return home (whether in the US or internationally) with just a few days of time to prepare themselves.

[UmbrellaFish]

FROZEN II SPOILERS BELOW!!!

I just had a little Frozen marathon. I watched the first movie and Frozen Fever, then for the first time I watched both Olaf’s Frozen Adventure and Frozen II. I thought the holiday special was actually really sweet— a shame Disney put it in front of Coco, I’m sure it would have been received much better if Disney had just let it run as a TV special as originally intended.

But mostly I want to talk about Frozen II. I knew the plot points going in so I wasn’t surprised by anything but I was interested to see how they got there. My reaction: wow, that was interesting! I have to first applaud the team for choosing to expand the world and universe of Frozen instead of going a safer route that was derivative of the original film. They took off a big bite to chew, and I think elements of that overwhelmed them, but overall, I thought it was refreshing, exciting storytelling and it makes me more interested in the future of Walt Disney Animation under Jennifer Lee.

I’m glad I watched all the other Frozen media back to back because I never appreciated how truly, deeply affected she is by her childhood and the emotional trauma left behind. Usually in a Disney movie, a character gets what they want and we can assume they lived happily ever after, but Elsa couldn’t be “fixed” so easily. The Frozen holiday special, for example, was interesting because even though it was simplified for children you have this character who has such a guilty complex that she feels bad because somehow she feels it’s her fault her family doesn’t have Christmas traditions. Clearly, Elsa needs to focus on her mental and emotional health— and this really should supersede her role as Queen of Arendelle.

Now, Anna is a much more grounded person, but I still have doubts that she could deal with the rules and restrictions that come with being a monarch. No matter how empathetic she is, I think she’s going to fall flat on her face no matter how hard she tries— she just wasn’t raised with that sense of duty in mind. Maybe in Frozen III Arendelle could be the first Disney kingdom to transition to a democracy?

I’ve always been cold on Kristoff— honestly, it’s petty but it’s because J. Groff was my first celebrity crush as a teenager and I think the character isn’t as cute as he is in real life and kinda gross. But damn, is he weird. Never noticed how truly, truly weird he is. Way more character and idiosyncrasies than any other Disney “Prince.” Also interesting that it appears Kristoff is living with Anna... unmarried. That feels like a change for the times. I think even in the Aladdin TV show, Aladdin still didn’t live in the palace— certainly didn’t dress like it at least!

I loved the soundtrack. It was all new to my ears except “Into the Unknown”— I spoiled myself on Moana by listening to the soundtrack first so this time I made a decision to wait. Overall, I think it is much stronger than the original film’s soundtrack. I’m so glad they gave Kristoff a real song this time— I thought it was criminal in 2013 to cast Jonathan Groff and only give him that comic song to sing! And I thought it was a wonderful, great number— maybe my favorite of the film. And Anna’s “Do the Next Right Thing” was really great, although I hate those troll characters and their mumbo jumbo. They stepped up their game for Elsa with not just one but two great showstoppers for her, too. Olaf’s song was a weaker entry than “In Summer” but no song was as bad or felt as superfluous as the troll’s song in the original. Really well-done work by the Lopezes.

But here’s the part of the big bite that I can’t quite digest: the racial politics of this movie is a lot to unpack... It’s just kinda weird that their mother was meant to be a POC but as she grew up and became an adult her skin colored paled. And she didn’t have the same distinctive eyes as the rest of the tribe. The fact that she hid her heritage from her children and her husband for an indeterminate amount of time is kinda strange... Elsa, who definitely takes after her father’s side of the family, claiming her newly discovered ethnic heritage as a legitimate reason— the only reason— why she can be trusted, should be trusted by the non-Arendellians was questionable. Damn, it was weird and it was a lot! And then to cast all these people with white actors... I’m not even saying they needed to find Sami actors (I don’t think the characters look all that much like the modern Sami people I’ve seen)... just why not some actors who looked less like Elsa and a little more like the characters on the screen?

I’m not saying any of that makes it bad or even that it’s really racist... but it brings up so many questions about racial identity and colonialism and I’m not sure it handles those questions all that deftly... but hey, it’s a wild leap from anything I grew up with and it’s so much more interesting filmmaking/storytelling than we’ve been getting in a long time... I really appreciated that they went for it. They could have rested on their laurels, but they went bold and different and as a Disney fan I so appreciate it. I’m not sure if it will become a favorite of mine, but it’s definitely something that I think could be rewatched— and as someone who has been bored to death with Disney using the Pixar formula, the fact that this movie tried to be a little bit different is so exciting. Also, before I wrap up— I liked the fire salamander. He was cute.

And one last thing— I thought it was a really bold choice to go with that tragic ending— Kristoff goes head first into making the wrong decision by actually asking Anna to marry him, even though it’s clear they have serious communication issues and hunky Ryder is right there with his handsome good looks and also strange interest in reindeer. So sad...

[blackcauldron85]

And I thought it was a wonderful, great number— maybe my favorite of the film.

Yay! it's a minority opinion, but I think "Into the Woods" is amazing, so I'm happy you like it so much!

I totally didn't think much about the colonialism or Elsa claiming that she should be trusted because she's part Northuldra, but that's a great observation.

[JeanGreyForever]

I love how you watched the films all in a marathon. I know they've basically decanonized Frozen Fever and Olaf's Frozen Adventure now but originally they used to say that even these shorts were required viewing for Frozen II because they would show the emotional arcs and journeys of the sisters.

I agree with you that while Anna's heart is in the right place, I'm not sure she's ready for the burden of governing an entire kingdom. Especially considering the decisions she made in the first film like going out in a blizzard in her ballgown and a flimsy cloak.

Never been a Kristoff fan either so I'm glad somebody else noticed that the character is plain weird and super gross as well. Only Jonathan Groff makes him as endearing as he can be so I'm glad he had a song for once since that was the only noteworthy thing for him in Frozen II. In the Aladdin TV Series, Aladdin still lived at his old home because they couldn't show an unmarried couple living together. I think towards the end in certain episodes, he had his own room in the palace but I can't remember for sure. It was a stupid retcon to make then unmarried in the first place when supplemental material after the film was released had them wed and Aladdin was in his Prince Ali clothes living at the palace.

In Summer was never the best song but it was at least catchy unlike his new one which I found to be plain bizarre and clearly shoehorned in just so he can have a song, even moreso than in the first film.

And I completely agree with you on the racial politics. I'm surprised Disney didn't get more criticism for casting a white actress as a POC character (or I should say a white character retconned into a POC). It's really weird that Iduna doesn't look Sami at all and her young version has no resemblance to her older version. Disney seems to want to have their cake and eat it too by retconning their biggest moneymakers, Elsa and Anna, into POC. Now they can say that they can keep making Frozen material instead of other culturally diverse stories because Frozen as well features POC heroines even though that's really not the case at all.

BTW for Ryder, are you saying he would be a better love interest for Anna or for Kristoff?

[Disney Duster]

Clearly, Elsa needs to focus on her mental and emotional health— and this really should supersede her role as Queen of Arendelle.

If that's why you think it was ok Elsa ditched being Queen of Arendelle, I never thought of it that way, and I can see that as the only justifiable reason.

Disney kingdoms are monarchies!!!!

You thought this soundtrack was better? The first soundtrack has only one bad song - "Fixer Upper". Oh, and "Love Is an Open Door." In this soundtrack, every song is all over the place musically or is unmemorable, save for the one you thought was best, "Lost in the Woods".

I, too, am wondering what you meant by your last two sentences.

[Farerb]

Chronologically Olaf's Frozen Adventure should come before Frozen Fever, and I think they still consider Frozen Fever to be canon, either way both don't contradict anything so both are still good as canon.

I think the soundtrack has a consistent quality among the songs while the first one has really great songs and really awful ones.

I agree about the problematic "secretly POC" aspect of the film and I'm surprised not a lot spoke about this.

I agree about that it's great that they decided to expand the world, but to me it felt like there was a lot of set up, a lot of exposition, but in the end there wasn't any payoff, non of this was really utilized, which is why I hope there's a third film that would maybe make this one more "justifiable". IDK. Frozen II had a lot of potential, but there are pacing issues, no climax and barely any plot (just a lot of world building and exposition), also beside Elsa I didn't feel the characters had to deal with any internal conflict, and even Elsa's was very minimal. The first film had its issues, but it also had all these things, especially the conflict between Anna and Elsa, which was the heart of the first film and without it, the film just falls flat. However I also think it's a bad idea to recreate the same conflict over and over again and I'm glad they didn't go this way.

I agree about Kristoff and Ryder. These two had the best chemistry out of all the characters, better than Elsa and Honeymaren and better than Anna and Kristoff. I found Kristoff to be endearing in the first film, but in this one he was really off putting for some reason, I also thought Anna's needy hysterical moments were forced and out of character.

[JeanGreyForever]

Didn't Sotiris post something earlier that even Frozen Fever is not canon anymore? I don't see how that works with the snowgies though but it's not like Frozen has ever been super consistent.

I couldn't stand Anna in this film. It really was OOC for her and she was just plain annoying. I kept wanting Elsa to freeze Anna and Kristoff because one had worn out her welcome with her whining while the other had literally no reason to be on screen in the first place.

[Farerb]

Didn't Sotiris post something earlier that even Frozen Fever is not canon anymore? I don't see how that works with the snowgies though but it's not like Frozen has ever been super consistent.

I couldn't stand Anna in this film. It really was OOC for her and she was just plain annoying. I kept wanting Elsa to freeze Anna and Kristoff because one had worn out her welcome with her whining while the other had literally no reason to be on screen in the first place.

Jenny joked about it that Anna and Finn should get together cause all they do in the films is follow the emotionally unavailable protagonist and yell their names.

[JeanGreyForever]

Didn't Sotiris post something earlier that even Frozen Fever is not canon anymore? I don't see how that works with the snowgies though but it's not like Frozen has ever been super consistent.

I couldn't stand Anna in this film. It really was OOC for her and she was just plain annoying. I kept wanting Elsa to freeze Anna and Kristoff because one had worn out her welcome with her whining while the other had literally no reason to be on screen in the first place.

Jenny joked about it that Anna and Finn should get together cause all they do in the films is follow the emotionally unavailable protagonist and yell their names.

I completely agree. I compared Anna and Finn the other day in some other thread here and I stand by that because both characters had nothing better to do than be toxic and attach themselves to their betters. Whereas I was never really a Finn fan, I actually did like Anna a lot in the first film.

We can throw in Ralph from WIR2 to that list.

[Widdi]

Watched it for a second time today on D+ and I definitely enjoyed it more this time. I still think the music is significantly weaker than the first movie (which I also watched today, gotta love social distancing lol), but some of the songs are starting to grow on me.

I still can't believe the Fire Spirit wasn't more highly merchandised.

[Farerb]

Four months later do you think the film has become a cultural phenomena like the first one has? Because I don't see or feel it, but maybe that's just me.

[Disney Duster]

I definitely don't feel it. The film was a let-down for me and looks like it was for so many other people that it really didn't hold the world's hearts or interest like the first one did.

[JeanGreyForever]

Same here, I don't feel like there's been as much buzz for this film afterwards or much discourse about it. The first film had the added advantage of being such a novelty and also the songs kept playing on the radio for months afterwards to keep it in people's minds.

I still can't believe the Fire Spirit wasn't more highly merchandised.

Same, the salamander seems like the most popular of the spirits now. There was a lot of hype for the Nokk but it barely was featured in the film so all that promotion didn't seem like it amounted to much.

[DisneyFan97]

I have Pre-ordred the Swedish Blu-Ray from Discshop.SE !!!

[DisneyFan09]

Show Yourself Sing Along has recently been uploaded by DisneyMusicVevo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrZxwPwmgrw

[WillytheDino]

Did we discuss the deleted prologue already?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97k3-BEgA5g

[DisneyFan97]

I REALLY wish this got at least any Oscar nomination

I would have given The Hidden World’s nomination to this instead