Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[Farerb]

Would anyone be able to tell me about Leia's role in the film ? How it felt, what she did, impact on the storyline ? I've been bits and bobs, but mainly people have just said her involvement is very emotional, but that's about it really.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Not much. They used her face and she's mostly saying vague and generic lines. Then she wants to get to Ben using the force, distracting him enough for Rey to hurt him, but Rey sense her too and she saves him. After that she dies.

[JeanGreyForever]

Would anyone be able to tell me about Leia's role in the film ? How it felt, what she did, impact on the storyline ? I've been bits and bobs, but mainly people have just said her involvement is very emotional, but that's about it really.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

She doesn't have a lot of screentime but she is very much the emotional heart of the story and I do feel as though her full character arc was completed. It may not seem obvious at first but she has a very heavy impact on this film because she's responsible for redeeming her son and staving Rey away from the dark side. For comparison, in TFA she's got about 6 minutes of screentime, in TLJ she's got about 9 minutes, and in TROS she has about 4 minutes. Apparently some of her scenes were cut last minute but should be included as deleted scenes. How JJ felt he could delete any of her preciously obtained footage, I don't know.

Here is the full recap of her role in the film although it includes major spoilers for the endings of certain characters tied to Leia so I've kept the last paragraph separate in case you don't want all that spoiled. She's mostly in the beginning of the film where she trains Rey as her new Jedi master. Rey doesn't feel like she's earned Luke's saber so she gives it back to Leia. When Palpatine's return is broadcast to the galaxy and confirmed by a Resistance spy and First Order mole, Rey realizes she must confront him against Leia's better judgment. As Rey heads off on her mission, Leia bids a heartfelt goodbye to her but not before she gives her back Luke's lightsaber. Most of Leia's scenes that aren't with Rey involve other Resistance members including Greg Grunberg's Snap Wexley, Rose Tico, and of course Billie Lourd's Connix.

We don't really see much of Leia and the Resistance until the second half of the film after this, although her presence continues to be felt from mentions by the other characters such as Lando and Poe. When Rey and Kylo Ren are dueling, Leia senses them and realizes she must reach out to her son to try and redeem him. Connix leads her away to her private chambers where Leia essentially force projects to contact her son. As she does this, we hear from Maz Kanata that Leia knows this act will take all of her strength and kill her. Kylo hears his mother call his name and feels her death and this stops him in his tracks and Rey uses this moment to stab him. Right after this, Rey senses Leia's death too and breaks down. As Leia dies, we see she was holding Han's medal in her hands and R2-D2 is there by her side as he mourns. Leia's death is not in vain though because with her final act she pushes a memory of Han in her son's mind and father and son finally get closure leading to Kylo Ren's death and the rebirth of Ben Solo. Palpatine senses this and expresses his anger at the fact that Leia robbed him of Kylo Ren, but he promises to prevail over her yet.

Rey is met by force ghost Luke who tells her that Leia was aware of Rey's parentage (not sure if you want this spoiled or not if you don't already know) but still accepted her and was willing to train her. Luke reveals that shortly after ROTJ, he took on Leia as his first Jedi student and they trained for a year (we see a brief flashback to this with the twins dueling with CGI to de-age them). Leia gave up Jedi training when she had a vision that if she continued down this path, it would endanger the life of her unborn son. Luke then reveals to be in possession of Leia's lightsaber which he gives to Rey alongside his own so she can destroy Palpatine once and for all.

Leia's death is heavily mourned by the Resistance and Chewbacca has one of the film's best scenes when he learns about her passing. Leia's body is covered with a white sheet and Poe has one final heart to heart as he reflects on what Leia means to him and how he doesn't think he can follow in her footsteps. When the Resistance heads out to stop Palpatine's Final Order fleet, they do so in the name of Leia.

Rey and Ben are reunited on Exegol where Rey wields Leia's saber and Ben wields Luke's and they battle Palpatine, his Sith Eternal cultists who resurrected him, and the Knights of Ren. When Ben dies at the end of the film and his body fades away like what happens to Jedi who become force ghosts, we see that Leia's body fades away too from under the sheet and Maz smiles, knowing Leia was waiting for Ben and mother and son are reunited. Maz also gives Han's medal to Chewie with the implication that Leia wanted to give it to him (although the scene from the teaser with Leia holding the medal is cut from the film so I imagine a deleted scene elaborates on this). The film ends with force ghost Luke and Leia watching over Rey on Tatooine after she buries their sabers at the Lars homestead. They give her their blessing to take on the name of Rey Skywaker. As a force ghost, Leia is depicted in a simple white dress with a hood and the image is very reminiscent of Mary and Joseph, especially since Rey considers them to be her real parents.

[JeanGreyForever]

Not a good look for JJ. #thankyourianjohnson is trending on Twitter today and #jjabramsisoverparty was trending even before the movie's general release after spoilers came out. Disney/Lucasfilm has a lot to explain about this film's ending.

[Farerb]

I think some years from now The Last Jedi will be remembered better than The Rise of Skywalker.

[Farerb]

I also wanted to say that I really like the conversation here, even if we don't agree I like that we can have a respectful conversation with each other. I have entered the multiple Star Wars threads in bluray.com and I really don't enjoy the people there, they can be very unkind sometimes, though probably better than Facebook or Reddit.

[JeanGreyForever]

I think some years from now The Last Jedi will be remembered better than The Rise of Skywalker.

I think that is already the case with the fans who are not bigoted.

https://twitter.com/silentamethyst_/sta ... 4342574082
BTW, Rian Johnson's wife has liked multiple tweets trashing TROS including the ending and how it completely went against Rey's arc as well as the sidelining of Rose. I'm glad to know she's on our side here and basically speaking for RJ because he is too classy to trash JJ's film like JJ trashed RJ's film to promote TROS. This also explains why RJ didn't bother to show up to the premiere of TROS and from what I've heard, it sounds like many of the actors in the film wish they could have ditched too.

Elijah Wood has also tweeted in favor of Rian Johnson. I hope RJ casts him in his next Star Wars films.

[JeanGreyForever]

I also wanted to say that I really like the conversation here, even if we don't agree I like that we can have a respectful conversation with each other. I have entered the multiple Star Wars threads in bluray.com and I really don't enjoy the people there, they can be very unkind sometimes, though probably better than Facebook or Reddit.

Same. Bluray.com is actually pretty decent compared to the conversations on Reddit. It's like all TLJ haters stormed out at once to take over Reddit because it didn't use to be this bad before TROS came out.

BTW some hints posted below that Ben Solo was originally meant to survive. I wonder if Disney/Lucasfilm pulled a Frozen II and changed Ben's fate like they did Elsa's, although in this case, the opposite of what they did to her. Apparently a leaker is claiming that Adam and Daisy filmed the final scene on Tatooine together and other people have chronicled more evidence that Ben's fate was changed last minute.

Don't click on the links if you haven't seen the movie or don't want to be spoiled.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/ ... _reversed/
https://twitter.com/_blackdiam0nd/statu ... 15714?s=21
https://mobile.twitter.com/xoxoreyloxox ... 0524374017

[DisneyJedi]

I thought TFA, TLJ and TROS were all amazing.

[JeanGreyForever]

I thought TFA, TLJ and TROS were all amazing.

I like them all except I have a few issues with TROS, mainly the ending. The pacing doesn't bother me but it's clear that a lot of material was cut last minute because the film's running time changed in the last few weeks. At least 10-15 minutes was scrapped. Here are the main examples I can think of below.

https://www.thewrap.com/star-wars-the-r ... ge-exists/
Leia was confirmed to have deleted scenes that will likely show up on the Blu-Ray by the writer of the film, Chris Terrio. I am shocked that JJ would delete any of Carrie's precious footage when RJ made sure that all of Carrie's content made it into the final cut for TLJ.


Rose and Rey had a scene together as per this image and I think in earlier interviews, this scene was confirmed but it didn't show up in the final cut.

Most people who didn't read the leaks will have no idea about the Lando-Jannah connection. In the film, they share one scene together in the ending and people assume he is flirting with her. In fact, Lando was supposed to be Jannah's father. There was a whole deleted subplot of the First Order stealing children from Rebellion heroes to make into Stormtroopers. A few lines remain in the film like on Kijimi where the children have all been stolen and I think one of the First Order leaders makes a reference. But Palpatine ordered the First Order to start recruiting more children which would tie into Finn and Jannah's storyline. On Pasaana, Lando would reveal he has been here since his mission with Luke because his daughter was stolen from him and he could never find her. The implication is that Jannah is his daughter, which not only do the leaks confirm, but the canon Visual Dictionary has confirmed this and the novelization that will be released in March is also confirmed to be an Expanded Edition with the deleted scenes that will feature Lando and Jannah's connection.

https://i.redd.it/sl8aymprznq21.png
The opening of the film was meant to feature Kylo Ren visiting an Oracle. He would ask the Oracle about Rey and the Oracle would explain to him that he and Rey form a prophesied Dyad. The Dyad stuff was mainly cut from the film but a few mentions still exist when Kylo brings it up to Rey on the Star Destroyer. However, there is no mention of where he learned this and without the Oracle scene, the assumption is that Palpatine told him but even Palpatine reveals he wasn't aware of this until the end of the film. So the Oracle scene filled this major plothole. Kylo would also ask the Oracle about either if Palpatine was back or the source of Snoke's power and the Oracle would send him in the direction of the Sith wayfinder on Mustafar which is how the final film opens up but without this context.

A lot of Leia force ghost stuff was different as well before reshoots. When she died, Luke was meant to visit her as a force ghost and finish her training so she could become a force ghost herself. When Rey visited Luke on Ahch-To, she would want to speak to Leia but Luke would tell her that Leia hadn't fully crossed over yet. Leia and Luke were supposed to visibly appear as force ghosts alongside Ben and Rey in the fight against Palpatine. Eventually this stuff was scrapped for the Jedi voices scene instead but even then, Leia's voice was meant to be heard and she would be the final voice who would wake Rey up. Basically the ending scene of the trailer where Luke says "the force will be with you..." and Leia finishes it off by saying "...always" was supposed to be how the scene went. For some reason, Leia's line was cut from this force ghost voice scene. The flashback of young Luke and Leia training was also supposed to be longer apparently and with dialogue. This might explain why Carrie Fisher's brother said there was 8 minutes of footage of Leia in the film but we only got half that amount with 4 minutes.

Then of course, there's some of the links I posted in an above post about how Ben's fate might have been different.

[JeanGreyForever]

Here's another confirmed deleted scene featuring Kylo Ren, Hux, and the Knights of Ren.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/ ... ed_scenes/

Interestingly enough, the TROS film editor flat out confirmed that the film was being rushed and they couldn't finish in time. Her advice was to basically just shut off your brain and enjoy the film for what it is.

The good news is that TROS is doing much better today in terms of box office. Very pleased to hear this (unless it kills any incentive of an extended edition down the lines)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmende ... worldwide/
https://collider.com/star-wars-the-rise ... ce-monday/

[JeanGreyForever]

Billy Dee Williams said his story is not concluded. For anyone who read my above post about deleted scenes, this will make more sense.
https://twitter.com/ErikDavis/status/12 ... 64224?s=19

Here is a little bit more about the interview with the TROS editor.

[JeanGreyForever]

The evidence that the ending was changed last minute is piling up.
https://thedarknessawakens.tumblr.com/p ... 7066#notes

[Farerb]

The Image shows two left hands folding the lightsabers.

[JeanGreyForever]

The Image shows two left hands folding the lightsabers.

And Reylos who have studied this film extensively can tell you that they recognize Adam's hand on sight.

I recommend reading this post as well as my response to that in this forum because it goes into detail about all the discrepancies and warning signs that the film's ending was changed last minute.

https://boards.theforce.net/threads/ada ... t-56277287
https://boards.theforce.net/threads/ada ... t-56278126

[Farerb]

It's such a shame. I like the original ending better.

[DisneyJedi]

I’m still not sure about the whole Reylo ship because of their... past experiences, let alone because of what Kylo Ren/Ben Solo did in the past.

[JeanGreyForever]

It's such a shame. I like the original ending better.

Same, you can detect the executive meddling.

I’m still not sure about the whole Reylo ship because of their... past experiences, let alone because of what Kylo Ren/Ben Solo did in the past.

How do you feel about Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader? George Lucas described them as two separate beings and Anakin died in ROTS which is why his force ghost resembled his younger, unblemished self. Vader was far more evil, having existed for more than two decades with the blood of likely hundreds if not thousands on his hands. Heck, his very first day as Darth Vader, he kills off children and that's not even the first time he's killed children. However, he still finds redemption at the end when nobody believes in him except for Luke and is able to become a force ghost. The same holds true for Kylo Ren and Ben Solo. Kylo Ren essentially dies when he is stabbed by Rey in the same place where he stabbed Han Solo. Rey heals him, not just his physical wounds but perhaps his emotional ones as well and you'll notice that even the scar she gave him disappears after that like Kylo Ren ceased to exist. Hence why when Ben confronts his father, Han flat out says that "Kylo Ren is dead." All of this occurs over the raging waters of Kef Bir, the oceanic moon of Endor, and water has always been symbolic of life-giving and rebirth like in a baptism or in a mother's womb.

This is why Rey specifically tells Ben that she always wanted to take his hand, but she wanted to take Ben's hand, not Kylo's Whenever he is Kylo she rejects him constantly and the only part of her attracted to Kylo Ren is the dark side within her (like the Dark Rey vision she sees. Hence why she talks about having seen a vision where she and Kylo Ren rule from the Sith Throne). However, Rey always suppresses these inclinations and after TLJ, when he refuses to side with her, she makes clear that she won't give him another chance until he proves he is Ben and not Kylo. The last hour or so of the film is where we see the true Ben Solo and he's completely different from Kylo Ren, not just in looks but in demeanor and mannerisms as well.

[REINIER]

I'm sorry..
But I too am a Last Jedi hater...aside from Mark Hamill detesting his role from start to finish..visually this movie did nothing for me..
The Rise of Skywalker was just plain lazy story telling..I'd agree on that...That Sith dagger which only worked upon standing in the right position...whoever thought of that should be fired on the spot, even if it was JJ himself...JJ is by no means a great Storyteller..then again Rian Johnson is no prize either. Kathleen Kennedy is most to blaim here...the fact she handpicked these two says it all.. Frozen 2 is Also a mess storywise...Disney has lost any capacity of great storytelling long ago..Chicken Little..Meet the Robbinsons...POTC 3/4/5...Narnia 2...Star Wars 7/8/9..
Sorry..not a good film amongst them.. Creative bankruptcy. I am sick of people defending bad storytelling. In an age where money is no object for Disney it has never before been so out of touch with it's own roots. No matter the medium..(.although 2D would be a Nice change of pace BOB! ) a good story is key! And those cringe worthy songs in Frozen 2...But I digress...Star Wars should never have been sold by its creator who now wines about mistreating his baby..Correct as he may be...he too is no great Storyteller. He should have brought in great storytellers of which there reside many on television and continue on his own. I'll let you decide which creators of your favorite tv show...But they are your favorites probably because you LIKED THE STORY...end of rant

[Farerb]

Rian Johnson is a good storyteller. The Last Jedi isn't perfect, it's too long and could have benefited from better editing job and it has some contrivances, especially in the Resistance storyline, but I thought Rian did a really good job with the characters, their development, their interaction. I liked the way he handled the themes of failure and why the fight needs to continue despite of failure. To me characters and themes triumph bad plot structure (and TBH most films have similar issues even back in Disney's prime days or even the original trilogy). I don't have issues with The Force Awakens, it's a soft remake of A New Hope. However I agree about The Rise of Skywalker. These film reeks of fan service and lazy storytelling. It was like watching a long episode of The Amazing Race tbh.

[JeanGreyForever]

I'm sorry..
But I too am a Last Jedi hater...aside from Mark Hamill detesting his role from start to finish..visually this movie did nothing for me..
The Rise of Skywalker was just plain lazy story telling..I'd agree on that...That Sith dagger which only worked upon standing in the right position...whoever thought of that should be fired on the spot, even if it was JJ himself...JJ is by no means a great Storyteller..then again Rian Johnson is no prize either. Kathleen Kennedy is most to blaim here...the fact she handpicked these two says it all.. Frozen 2 is Also a mess storywise...Disney has lost any capacity of great storytelling long ago..Chicken Little..Meet the Robbinsons...POTC 3/4/5...Narnia 2...Star Wars 7/8/9..
Sorry..not a good film amongst them.. Creative bankruptcy. I am sick of people defending bad storytelling. In an age where money is no object for Disney it has never before been so out of touch with it's own roots. No matter the medium..(.although 2D would be a Nice change of pace BOB! ) a good story is key! And those cringe worthy songs in Frozen 2...But I digress...Star Wars should never have been sold by its creator who now wines about mistreating his baby..Correct as he may be...he too is no great Storyteller. He should have brought in great storytellers of which there reside many on television and continue on his own. I'll let you decide which creators of your favorite tv show...But they are your favorites probably because you LIKED THE STORY...end of rant

Mark Hamill didn't hate the film. This sounds like the rhetoric from SalterThanCrait. He admitted that it wasn't what he envisioned for Luke and he talked it out with RJ but eventually he came around and realized this was for the best and he really liked what they ended up with. This is all in the making of documentary on the Blu-Ray, both his positive and negative comments, and he also said that he regrets publicly stating anything negative about the film and how "fans" have used his words against him to create a false narrative that he hates TLJ. Also keep in mind that Mark Hamill is an actor, not a writer. I'm sorry to say this but he has had some awful ideas about Luke since the Original Trilogy days and he himself admits that his ideas are garbage and that's why he's not a writer. He wanted Return of the Jedi to end with him putting on Vader's mask and George hated this idea completely and dismissed it immediately. Keep in mind how much flack Dark Empire in the Expanded Universe got for making Luke go to the dark side and TLJ haters claimed the same. Then for TFA, he wanted Luke to randomly pop up in Starkiller Base to save the day.

Also for all those hating on TLJ and the script, I'd like to point out that Carrie Fisher, an actual script doctor who has worked on many huge Hollywood films and is perhaps even better known for her writing over acting (besides playing Princess Leia), worked on this script. Anthony Daniels said that Carrie was not a big fan of the script for TFA but when she read TLJ script, she was completely in love with it and thought it was quite an improvement. She also used to invite Rian Johnson to her house and work with him on the script and her work is very apparent in the final film so much of the writing that Star Wars fans like to criticize is her very own. I'm not surprised actually that TLJ is my favorite Star Wars film after knowing that Carrie had a huge role in working on it with RJ. And Mark himself got some of his contributions like his moment with 3PO.

The Sith dagger was apparently a homage to The Goonies or some other old movie like that. JJ said he was styling this film as an 80s adventure film. POTC 3 is actually considered an improvement on 2 (although I'm not a huge fan of the first act of the film myself and prefer POTC 2) and they were shot back to back and written at the same time. Prince Caspian is actually one of my fav Disney live-action films alongside the first Narnia. I don't get all the hate it gets besides it being darker and less family friendly but the Harry Potter films did the same. I'm also a fan of Meet the Robinsons but I know a lot of people hate on that film.

I'm sorry to say this, but I have to wonder what type of Star Wars fan you are because you hate JJ and Rian Johnson, which is fine and all, but you admitted that you don't think George Lucas is a very good writer either so if you don't even like George, what part of Star Wars actually do you like? Also George himself made the decision to sell the franchise so that decision is all no him...Disney didn't coerce him and many close to him said this was a decision he had been wanting to make for a while and they always knew it was inevitable although they didn't expect him to do it as soon as he did.

Rian Johnson is a good storyteller. The Last Jedi isn't perfect, it's too long and could have benefited from better editing job and it has some contrivances, especially in the Resistance storyline, but I thought Rian did a really good job with the characters, their development, their interaction. I liked the way he handled the themes of failure and why the fight needs to continue despite of failure. To me characters and themes triumph bad plot structure (and TBH most films have similar issues even back in Disney's prime days or even the original trilogy). I don't have issues with The Force Awakens, it's a soft remake of A New Hope. However I agree about The Rise of Skywalker. These film reeks of fan service and lazy storytelling. It was like watching a long episode of The Amazing Race tbh.

I think it's a perfect length and wish more Star Wars films were longer, particularly Revenge of the Sith and The Rise of Skywalker. The former needed all those Padme scenes because not only do they give Bail Organa a more important role so he doesn't suddenly pop up as randomly important in the last act of the film, but they also introduce Mon Mothma and sow the seeds for the Rebellion. Suddenly, Padme is the mother of the Rebellion and has actual agency in the film which is otherwise removed in the final cut. And The Rise of Skywalker seriously needs an extended edition.

https://twitter.com/cloudyfacewith1/sta ... 09056?s=19
BTW, a new deleted scene has been revealed featuring Pryde, Hux, and Kylo Ren taking place in the forest on Mustafar at the beginning of the film as Ren finds the Wayfinder. A quote from this scene stated by Hux is even featured in the Visual Dictionary and both actors for Pryde and Hux claimed it should be included as a deleted scene.

Going back to the length of TLJ, I wish RJ hadn't deleted Luke's third lesson to Rey because it segways into his decision to connect to the force again and reach out to Leia as well as explain why Rey is so conflicted, leading to her exchange with Kylo Ren and being open to entering the dark side cave. Most of the other deleted scenes feature Finn and aren't as interesting imo. I like when Rose bites Hux's fingers though and think that should have been retained especially now that we barely get any Rose in TROS. BTW, RJ hasn't directly said anything but his recent tweets over the past week or so seem to imply that he's not pleased with how Kelly Marie Tran was sidelined for this film and how he is completely on her side and supports her. Another reason I love this man and his works.