Mulan (Live-Action)

[Disney's Divinity]

I've more or less decided not to support this in theaters. I suppose if I see anything next year aside from Raya, it'll be The Witches or Emma. Although I don’t expect the latter to top the miniseries with Jonny Lee Miller and Romola Garai, Emma is my favorite Austen novel.

[WarriorDreamer]

A shame to hear that Mushu is not making an appearance, since Eddie Murphy could have reprised his role in a similar way that James Earl Jones did in Lion King.

I guess they are going for a more serious version than the animation if there are no magical aspects whatsoever.

[Sotiris]

I guess they are going for a more serious version than the animation if there are no magical aspects whatsoever.

Oh, haven't you heard? There's going to be a phoenix and a witch in the film. It's ironic how they've added more magical elements in the live-action remake than there were in the original for some inexplicable reason.

[WarriorDreamer]

I guess they are going for a more serious version than the animation if there are no magical aspects whatsoever.

Oh, haven't you heard? There's going to be a phoenix and a witch in the film. It's ironic how they've added more magical elements in the live-action remake than there were in the original for some inexplicable reason.

Oh no I hadn't. That will allow the film to still feel like Disney I suppose. Still, a shame there is no Mushu.

[Sotiris]

Horn saying "if Mulan doesn't work in China, we have a problem" makes me believe that the changes made to the story were done solely to appeal to Chinese audiences.

Q: Let's talk about China because we have seen flare-ups in this battle between free speech and appeasing the Chinese government. What is the censorship limit for Hollywood? Alan, the star of your upcoming Mulan picture voiced support for Hong Kong police, which sparked a #BoycottMulan movement.

Alan Horn: First of all, if Mulan doesn't work in China, we have a problem. But my feeling is that free speech is an important component of our society, and folks ought to be able to say what they want to say. And I can't speak for what Yifei Liu says in China, and we didn't know what she was going to say. We try to be nonpolitical. There is always an issue somewhere in the world, and China happens to be a very, very big market, but it's not the only market where there have been issues. The only thing I have said to the folks that work with me is to keep in mind that when you speak, [the media will quote you]. And that carries with it a certain responsibility. Be sensible and think before you speak. Especially on social media.

Q: Does it bother you that your movies can't offend China?

Alan Horn: No. We are making movies that are designed to be seen by an appreciative audience [everywhere]. We don't wish to be political. And to get dragged into a political discussion, I would argue, is sort of inherently unfair. We are not politicians.

Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/featu ... fs-1250718

[UmbrellaFish]

With all the story and character changes, with the excision of the songs, what’s left to appeal to fans of the 1998 film? The title?

This movie is so interesting to me. I am so curious to see what the response will be from regular movie goers and critics. And in turn, how that response affects box office gross. Any more word on the reshoots?

[Sotiris]

With all the story and character changes, with the excision of the songs, what’s left to appeal to fans of the 1998 film? The title?

lol That's what I've been saying. This isn't Disney's Mulan but a random studio's Mulan. Nothing about it makes it recognizably Disney. It's sad that instead of relying on the popularity of the original and trusting in the elements that made it so beloved, Disney opted to poorly mimic Chinese filmmaking. Just take things like cinematography, set pieces, costuming, and choreography from the trailer. They pale in comparison to that in films like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, or House of Flying Daggers. This whole endeavor just feels so artificial. The original Mulan was an American film set in China whereas the remake is an American film pretending to be a Chinese film.

[Clindor]

Guys.. it’s been months, ...and months ...and months! and monnnnths you’ve been BITCHING about this project. Don’t you want to give a little chance to something new?!? (and by that I mean something that at least TRIES to be a bit new..)

What?.. Do you really prefer something as unoriginal as a soulness shot by shot remake of The Lion King just because it comforts you better in your fandom?

And you still have zero idea what’s the result is going to be like with this one :-/ Can’t we just all chill out?

[Disney's Divinity]

There are at least 6 months left of bitching to go, Clindor. Five until it’s released in March and then another after that as everyone here slaughters it the same way they do all the re-makes. At least I can enjoy it this go round (same with the new, awful-looking Cruella film), unlike with TJB, B&tB, Aladdin, and TLK. A shame. I had really been looking forward to this when it was first announced. This should’ve been an easy slam dunk, but Disney found a way to muck it all up.

Btw, I know the film will do well at the box office regardless. The animated film is beloved and most people don’t follow the news around upcoming films that closely anyway.

[Sotiris]

Japanese TV spot featuring new footage.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4cUN5GFQJg/

[JeanGreyForever]

Guys.. it’s been months, ...and months ...and months! and monnnnths you’ve been BITCHING about this project. Don’t you want to give a little chance to something new?!? (and by that I mean something that at least TRIES to be a bit new..)

What?.. Do you really prefer something as unoriginal as a soulness shot by shot remake of The Lion King just because it comforts you better in your fandom?

And you still have zero idea what’s the result is going to be like with this one :-/ Can’t we just all chill out?

Agreed, people are freaking out without knowing anything about the film beyond the trailer. Disney's Mulan might be the definitive version for the non-western world, but in this case, most of the world would be China so I don't blame Disney for wanting an adaptation that is geared towards them. Frankly, I find it really hypocritical and even bigoted how many people here hate how a Chinese nationalistic folktale is being geared towards (shocker) Chinese audiences.

[Sotiris]

Frankly, I find it really hypocritical and even bigoted how many people here hate how a Chinese nationalistic folktale is being geared towards (shocker) Chinese audiences.

We're calling people who don't like the changes bigots now? Really? There are already two live-action adaptations of the Mulan legend made by Chinese filmmakers for a Chinese audience. If people want a more authentic take, they can always watch those. And if Chinese filmmakers are interested in making more adaptations, no ones stopping them from doing exactly that. What I find hypocritical is an American film, directed by a white person, where the dialogue is in English, and full of anachronisms and historical inaccuracies, that tries to pretend it's authentic when it's just thinly-veiled pandering motivated by greed. Disney making a second-rate rip-off of Chinese period dramas by poorly mimicking their aesthetic is not something that should be celebrated or rewarded.

If we're being honest here you're only accepting of these changes in Mulan because you never cared for the animated film whereas when it comes to Aladdin that you love, you had no issue with the remake being an extremely Americanized product, faithful to the original, that wasn't at all modeled after Arabic cinema. You didn't seem to care then about what did or didn't appeal to Middle Eastern audiences.

[JeanGreyForever]

Frankly, I find it really hypocritical and even bigoted how many people here hate how a Chinese nationalistic folktale is being geared towards (shocker) Chinese audiences.

We're calling people who don't like the changes bigots now? Really? There are already two live-action adaptations of the Mulan legend made by Chinese filmmakers for a Chinese audience. If people want a more authentic take, they can always watch those. And if Chinese filmmakers are interested in making more adaptations, no ones stopping them from doing exactly that. What I find hypocritical is an American film, directed by a white person, where the dialogue is in English, and full of anachronisms and historical inaccuracies that tries to pretend it's authentic when it's just thinly-veiled pandering motivated by greed. Disney making a second-rate rip-off of Chinese period dramas by poorly mimicking their aesthetic is not something that should be celebrated or rewarded.

If we're being honest here you're only accepting of these changes in Mulan because you never cared for the animated film whereas when it comes to Aladdin that you love, you had no issue with the remake being an extremely Americanized product, faithful to the original, that wasn't at all modeled after Arabic cinema. You didn't seem to care then about what did or didn't appeal to Middle Eastern audiences.

So are you saying that because there are Chinese adaptations of the tale, when Disney makes a film about a Chinese legend/national hero, they should completely disavow all Chinese influence? Not even try and pretend to be culturally correct or mold their film to be like that?

I used to love Mulan as a film and if you look at some of my old posts, you'll see that I consistently ranked it as one of my favorites. It's only in the last couple of years that I changed my tune because I became aware of how problematic Mulan was as a film, relying on stereotypes and being as authentic as a fortune cookie. So if I'm more accepting of the remake, it's because I'm hoping it'll fix all the problems of the original which was fraught with inaccuracies.

I'm Pakistani so I'm associated with both Indian and Middle Eastern culture, both of which Aladdin draws influence from. The Arabian Nights tales were always a hodgepodge of various eastern cultures and myths and the original Aladdin folk tale chose China as a setting because it was considered "exotic," not because the real world China was ever similar to the fairy tale version. It was China only in name otherwise everything else was clearly based on Arabian, Persian, and Indian myths and cultures. The Disney movie set the film during the Golden Age of Islam, in the spiritual equivalent of Baghdad, which was the center of Islamic culture back then and this setting was where many of the Arabian Nights tales were set. The characters are as Americanized as the characters from Snow White and The Little Mermaid because as you said, these are American products created for mainly American audiences, but they can still be recognized and beloved by Arabian, Persian, Indian, Turkish, etc. audiences.

Disney's Aladdin has more in common with the bombastic color, music, and flair associated with Bollywood which is why the musical and live-action film both heavily drew on those influences, rather than Arabian cinema which is fairly niche even in the Arab world. I can safely say that Disney's Aladdin is beloved in India and Pakistan and considered the definitive version of the tale there, even if the original fairy tale is also well known and popular. From what I've seen of the Middle East, the same is true there as well and Aladdin and its two sequels are a particular favorite of Arab audiences. Culturally wise, I've never felt it was overly Americanized or westernized or culturally incompatible, especially when much of western culture came from the Greeks, Romans, and Arab world, and while Europe was still in its dark ages, the Islamic world had already rediscovered all the formerly lost knowledge bestowed upon us by the Greeks and Romans. The Europeans made translations of all that knowledge directly from the Arabic translations. I've seen elders from this part of the world, who wouldn't be considered Americanized or westernized at all, not only enjoy Disney's Aladdin but even recognize elements of their culture and history in the film. Whereas most Americans would see the Taj Mahal in Agrabah's palace, these people were able to correctly identify 9th-10th century Baghdad from just one glance at the palace. A few liberties are obviously taken but the same can be said for any fairy tale film Disney has made since fairy tales typically portray a very simplified fable of good vs evil rather than an accurate rendering of real life with all the itty-gritty details exemplified. The weight placed on Aladdin's accuracy should be noted as less than that of Mulan's since Mulan was actually a real life human being who had a real history and is still today considered an important national icon. I'd reckon there would be more historical and cultural accuracy placed on a historical and national icon rather than on a fairy tale character, or at least I'd hope so.

And generally most of the complaints about Aladdin being "Americanized" or "westernized" stem from the portrayal of the two leads versus Jafar. Contrary to popular belief, Aladdin and Jasmine were not whitewashed and they actually resemble a lot of typical teenagers and young adults who are Arabian, Persian, or Indian. Jafar is a villain so it's natural that he would be less attractive (like typical Disney villains such as Cruella, Ursula, etc.) and not because he's somehow been drawn to look more "authentically Arab." The fact that people think he looks more like a real-life Arab than Aladdin or Jasmine is frankly disturbing and the real racism here. As for Jasmine's portrayal, despite what mainstream media would have you believe, women were actually quite empowered in the days of the Golden Age of Islam and the hijab or mandatory covering of the body was more cultural than religious and not even dictated as it is now in certain countries, so Jasmine's portrayal (both in terms of personality and her clothing) was never culturally inauthentic as many people (typically white) claim now. Especially if you consider that Jasmine's wardrobe isn't far off from India's traditional garb for women (as well as Mughal outfits) even if it was more directly influenced by the prototypical harem pant look.

And the musical and live-action remake drew on this Indian influence even more since they weren't constrained by the animators' drawings and how much detail could be included in the outfits. Obviously there are heavy influences from the American 90s in the film, but the same can be said for the American 1930s in Snow White's costumes or the 50s in Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty because these costumes have to be palatable to contemporary eyes, which is why no costume drama is ever 100% accurate. The "real life" historical Snow White would never have displayed bare arms in public or ever have had her hair cut that short for starters.

[Disney's Divinity]

@Sotiris: It is funny to me how the same people who complain about changes with any other re-make and especially when Disney dares to make FEMINIST changes anywhere are fine here with the film being completely altered in this case. Maybe those misogynist bigots need to take a gander in the mirror and get the plank out of their own eyes.

[JeanGreyForever]

@Sotiris: It is funny to me how the same people who complain about changes with any other re-make and especially when Disney dares to make FEMINIST changes anywhere are fine here with the film being completely altered in this case. Maybe those misogynist bigots need to take a gander in the mirror and get the plank out of their own eyes.

Honestly if you're gonna call somebody out, please respond to them directly and not go by the quoted posts which are your only form of contact because you've blocked the original users. If you have blocked certain users, please have the decency then to continue on acting as if they don't exist and not refer to them afterwards, otherwise you just come across as a hypocrite.

Just a friendly piece of advice.

[UmbrellaFish]

I don’t have any issues with Disney trying to tell an “authentic” version of this fable and I don’t take any issue with Disney trying to be more respectful of the culture they are portraying. I am uneasy about Disney changing so much about the movie’s story, characters, music etc. because it feels like they are just using the name of a popular IP to sell their product to the widest audience possible. It feels like they’re trying to pull a fast one.

Mind you— it may make for a lovely movie, but I just wonder if it may be substantially different from what audiences’ expect.

[Disney's Divinity]

We already know this is not an "authentic" retelling. There’s a witch villain and a phoenix guardian, and Mulan isn’t going to die at the end of this either. The changes are about pleasing the Chinese dictatorship of today, not about telling an authentic version of the legend. I hope China rejects the re-make so Disney's inanity was all for nothing.

[Sotiris]

So are you saying that because there are Chinese adaptations of the tale, when Disney makes a film about a Chinese legend/national hero, they should completely disavow all Chinese influence? Not even try and pretend to be culturally correct or mold their film to be like that?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. First of, I think the original animated film did a great job of incorporating Chinese elements in a meaningful and respectful way. I don't find the film as problematic as you do. Sure, it was Americanized in some respects but that's to be expected when one culture takes a story from another and adapts it for its own needs and sensibilities. Second, you don't need to copy a specific cinematic style to be culturally authentic. You can do that by being accurate to the fashion, the setting, the architecture, the traditions and the customs. I don't know how well-versed you are in Chinese cinema, but to me it was clear Disney was trying to mimic Chinese period dramas. From the tone, to the cinematography, to the color palette, to the editing, to the choreography of the fight scenes, it all looked and felt very much like the Chinese movies I watched.

Also, I don't see how elements from the original are supposedly so un-Chinese they needed to be eliminated. The songs, Mushu, the grandmother, Li Shang's personality and rank, they all could have been included with some minor modifications and still be culturally consistent.

So if I'm more accepting of the remake, it's because I'm hoping it'll fix all the problems of the original which was fraught with inaccuracies.

From the teaser alone, we know that's not going to happen. The Chinese are already complaining how they took elements from various eras and locations and mashed them together.

The weight placed on Aladdin's accuracy should be noted as less than that of Mulan's since Mulan was actually a real life human being who had a real history and is still today considered an important national icon.

There has been zero historical evidence that Mulan was a real-life person. You can try to rationalize why it's OK to Americanize Aladdin but not Mulan but it comes off as an arbitrary double standard. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a foreign film to cater to American audiences even if it revolved around an American icon or tradition or historical event. I would want to see the other culture's interpretation of it. I would want to experience it from their point of view and examine how they've reshaped it and made it their own. I wouldn't want them to try and mimic American cinema. That would be utterly pointless, insincere, and creatively bankrupt.

[JeanGreyForever]

So are you saying that because there are Chinese adaptations of the tale, when Disney makes a film about a Chinese legend/national hero, they should completely disavow all Chinese influence? Not even try and pretend to be culturally correct or mold their film to be like that?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. First of, I think the original animated film did a great job of incorporating Chinese elements in a meaningful and respectful way. I don't find the film as problematic as you do. Sure, it was Americanized in some respects but that's to be expected when one culture takes a story from another and adapts it for its own needs and sensibilities. Second, you don't need to copy a specific cinematic style to be culturally authentic. You can do that by being accurate to the fashion, the setting, the architecture, the traditions and the customs. I don't know how well-versed you are in Chinese cinema, but to me it was clear Disney was trying to mimic Chinese period dramas. From the tone, to the cinematography, to the color palette, to the editing, to the choreography of the fight scenes, it all looked and felt very much like the Chinese movies I watched.

Also, I don't see how elements from the original are supposedly so un-Chinese they needed to be eliminated. The songs, Mushu, the grandmother, Li Shang's personality and rank, they all could have been included with some minor modifications and still be culturally consistent.

So if I'm more accepting of the remake, it's because I'm hoping it'll fix all the problems of the original which was fraught with inaccuracies.

From the teaser alone, we know that's not going to happen. The Chinese are already complaining how they took elements from various eras and locations and mashed them together.

The weight placed on Aladdin's accuracy should be noted as less than that of Mulan's since Mulan was actually a real life human being who had a real history and is still today considered an important national icon.

There has been zero historical evidence that Mulan was a real-life person. You can try to rationalize why it's OK to Americanize Aladdin but not Mulan but it comes off as an arbitrary double standard. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a foreign film to cater to American audiences even if it revolved around an American icon or tradition or historical event. I would want to see the other culture's interpretation of it. I would want to experience it from their point of view and examine how they've reshaped it and made it their own. I wouldn't want them to try and mimic American cinema. That would be utterly pointless, insincere, and creatively bankrupt.

You may think that but actual Chinese people and Asian Americans beg to differ. It's very presumptuous of you to claim that because you felt it was authentically Chinese enough, that should be good enough for the rest of the world. I'm assuming you're American based on that statement alone. You conveniently ignored some of the articles I posted on another page of this thread where Chinese and Asian American viewers explain some of their grievances with the film, many who even liked the film as children but grew to see the problematic elements. I've seen Chinese films before and I have no problem with the current Mulan reflecting their cinema because it tonally makes sense to me. The same way that Guy Ritchie made Aladdin resemble a Bollywood film and in India, people were talking about how the new Aladdin emulated a lot of Bollywood production values. If that was okay there then I see no reason why Mulan can't do the same with cinema from its country of origin. This is a Chinese epic anyway so it should appear to be one rather than just another typical Hollywood American blockbuster. Freddie Prinze Jr. mentioned some time back that Hollywood only caters to white Americans these days and I can't help but feel that my exchanges with you are completely proving that.

I've never seen Chinese audiences complain about the songs except for that maybe they weren't as good as prior Disney ones but that was quite a common view amongst all audiences, regardless of nationality. A lot of early Mulan reviews in 1998 stated that the new songs were not up to par with the Menken greats or anything from The Lion King. Not to mention, Mulan is a war movie so I still don't see the need to shoehorn songs in, especially when the original film only had four songs to begin with that were oddly paced. I didn't see anyone complain that Cinderella lost all its songs, relegated to end-credits only, or that Alice in Wonderland or Maleficent got rid of the classic songs too. The other things you mentioned I've brought up in previous pages countless times, as well as those aforementioned articles, so I don't see the need to explain the issues with them again.

That admittedly is problematic and I was very disappointed with Disney because they had a chance to do the movie right for once and they failed yet again. I'd like to think that maybe they can fix some of those anachronisms by the time of the movie's release, but I'm not counting on it. I'm glad that Chinese audiences pointed out every flaw and inconsistency though, but I also remember how many posters were seething here when that occurred. Interesting considering how critical many members here have been of the Mulan remake but the second Chinese audiences are critical too, they simply can't take it. Even then I called that behavior out and I'll continue to do so because the double standards astound me.

Mulan is a legend meaning she could have existed or she could not have. Whether she was real or not is not something for you to dictate though because she is real in the hearts and minds of Chinese audiences, to the point that every generation grows up with a different rendition of her story, that's how cemented she is in Chinese culture. Hence, all the different Mulan variants. And generally all legends have some iota of truth that sparked their creation. The only one trying to rationalize anything here is frankly you with your own bigoted views which I'm ashamed to recognize now because I quite looked up to you as a senior member of this forum. However, I can't help but notice that you've been very "concerned" with some of the new remakes these days, mainly Mulan and The Little Mermaid. Interesting what they both have in common compared to some of the other remakes which you haven't been as critical about. Other posters have called you (and others as well) out on this, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt then because I didn't think you were possibly what they were making you out to be, but your true colors have dangerously been showing lately. I hope I'm still mistaken...

[Sotiris]

You may think that but actual Chinese people and Asian Americans beg to differ. It's very presumptuous of you to claim that because you felt it was authentically Chinese enough, that should be good enough for the rest of the world.

You're the one who's being presumptuous. A handful of people from the articles you posted don't equate the majority. You always try to present your opinion as fact by using anecdotal evidence. I can do that too you know. Like pointing out how Mushu trended on Chinese social media because people were upset he isn't included in the film. That fact is neither of us know how the majority of Chinese people feel about the animated Mulan because there aren't any concrete evidence about stuff like this like statistics or polls or whatnot. At least, I don't pretend that I do.

I didn't see anyone complain that Cinderella lost all its songs, relegated to end-credits only, or that Alice in Wonderland or Maleficent got rid of the classic songs too.

I actually do have a problem with that, especially with Cinderella which was a straightforward adaptation and not a reimagining.

Whether she was real or not is not something for you to dictate though because she is real in the hearts and minds of Chinese audiences.

I'm not the one who's dictating it, it's historians. You're the one who claimed that because she's supposedly a real-life person means the remake should be X or Y. You can't even remain consistent to your own argument.

The only one trying to rationalize anything here is frankly you with your own bigoted views which I'm ashamed to recognize now because I quite looked up to you as a senior member of this forum. However, I can't help but notice that you've been very "concerned" with some of the new remakes these days, mainly Mulan and The Little Mermaid. Interesting what they both have in common compared to some of the other remakes which you haven't been as critical about.

You've conveniently left out my criticism of Cruella because you can't use that against me since she's white. Or the fact I like the Lady and the Tramp remake despite the race-bending. You love to throw accusations of racism or sexism whenever it suits you as a way to de-legitimatize other people's opinions. You immediately jump to character assassination. People don't like changes to a beloved animated film but I do? Oh, they must be bigots! Ignoring that most of the time you yourself take issue with changes in the remakes. You've torn apart Beauty and the Beast, dissecting and over-scrutinizing every little change but criticizing the radical changes to Mulan is not acceptable because you say so. The fact you don't realize how hypocritical that is, is beyond me. It's clear you have trouble accepting other people's views even when it comes to trivial matters like movies because you regard your opinion as "truth" and "fact". You need to keep your superiority complex in check and stop attacking people for disagreeing with you.