Not necessarily. They could have motives for keeping it a secret. In fact, that is usually the case.Sotiris wrote:Also, this trope sacrifices characterization as the true personality of the character is only revealed late in the film, usually during the third act, and there's not enough time to adequately establish a new personality for the character.
Toy Story 4
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Re: Toy Story 4
- Sotiris
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Re: Toy Story 4
There's a difference between the characters not knowing the truth about the villain and the audience not knowing too. The former is not a problem as it adds to the characterization by having both scenes where the villain is behaving as their true self as well as scenes where they're pretending in front of our heroes.Hardbackyoyo wrote:Treasure Island has always had the villain twist with Long-John Silver, but nobody cares.
With the twist villain cases, their motives are usually explained in a very informational type of way. That info dump becomes more of a plot point than a character-driven reveal. And again, there isn't have enough time to explore this new-found personality of the villain.Hardbackyoyo wrote:Not necessarily. They could have motives for keeping it a secret. In fact, that is usually the case.
It's OK if you like this trope; it's not wrong or bad or less than. But people are allowed to dislike it or feel tired of it too.
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Re: Toy Story 4
The twist villain trope makes sure we don't get great villains anymore. Plus, the shock value only works for the first watch. In re-watches, scenes with the villain become boring in most cases.

Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
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Re: Toy Story 4

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Re: Toy Story 4
It depends on what you want from a villain.Disney's Divinity wrote:The twist villain trope makes sure we don't get great villains anymore.
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Re: Toy Story 4
That depends on the story.Sotiris wrote: With the twist villain cases, their motives are usually explained in a very informational type of way. That info dump becomes more of a plot point than a character-driven reveal. And again, there isn't have enough time to explore this new-found personality of the villain.
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Re: Toy Story 4
That's a good point. Rewatchability is an important aspect as well.Disney's Divinity wrote:Plus, the shock value only works for the first watch. In re-watches, scenes with the villain become boring in most cases.
There's no reason to be angry. We're just exchanging points of view. There's no right or wrong here.Hardbackyoyo wrote:It gets me angry every time someone makes an argument against my arguments.

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Re: Toy Story 4
Sigh I just wrote a looong post about my thoughts about TS4 and twist villains and then when I was ready to submit the post I stupidly clicked CANCEL instead!
well Im not writing that all over again, so let me just make this short:
--Twist villains are stupid
--TS4 looks cute but also rather "just okay"
--I am glad to see Bo again
--those two tacky stuffed animals/Blue Sky rejects better not be all over the movie



well Im not writing that all over again, so let me just make this short:
--Twist villains are stupid
--TS4 looks cute but also rather "just okay"
--I am glad to see Bo again
--those two tacky stuffed animals/Blue Sky rejects better not be all over the movie
- Sotiris
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Re: Toy Story 4
Apparently, she's not a twist villain.
Source: https://twitter.com/Skylerhxc/status/11 ... 2286135297Skyler Shuler wrote:Like I’ve been saying, knowing who the villain is does not in any way spoil the film. Her being the villain in any way is not some twist.
Re: Toy Story 4
^I imagined she wouldn't be a twist villain. Otherwise, I don't think Skyler Shuler would've revealed it, at least not without a spoiler warning. Besides, according to the footage descriptions, she seems already antagonistic in her first scene.
Here's more info about the reactions to the footage that was screened in Spain and other European countries, and other news:
Toy Story 4: First Reviews and Sneak Peeks
https://toystoryfangirl.com/2019/03/17/ ... eak-peeks/
New ‘Toy Story 4’ Book Covers and Titles
https://toystoryfangirl.com/2019/03/17/ ... nd-titles/
‘Toy Story 4’ Playground at Epcot Shows New Characters
https://toystoryfangirl.com/2019/03/17/ ... haracters/
Here's more info about the reactions to the footage that was screened in Spain and other European countries, and other news:
Toy Story 4: First Reviews and Sneak Peeks
https://toystoryfangirl.com/2019/03/17/ ... eak-peeks/
New ‘Toy Story 4’ Book Covers and Titles
https://toystoryfangirl.com/2019/03/17/ ... nd-titles/
‘Toy Story 4’ Playground at Epcot Shows New Characters
https://toystoryfangirl.com/2019/03/17/ ... haracters/
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Re: Toy Story 4
You mean, they remind you of Pedro and Nico from Rio?unprincess wrote: --those two tacky stuffed animals/Blue Sky rejects better not be all over the movie
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Re: Toy Story 4
The new trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmiIUN-7qhE
The new poster:

(I'm sorry, I don't know how to display it smaller)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmiIUN-7qhE
The new poster:

(I'm sorry, I don't know how to display it smaller)
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Re: Toy Story 4
Based on the impression from the new trailer, it seems like the movie was inspired by the original plot of the first Toy Story, which was actually meant as a roadmovie about two toys trying to find their way back home. The ventriloquist dolls looked interesting (and it looked like they had also included the character from the short Tin Toy).
Re: Toy Story 4
Thanks for sharing, Mmmadelon!
Here are more details about the new characters:
Here are more details about the new characters:
Source: https://www.pixarpost.com/2019/03/toy-s ... ailer.htmlAmong the new faces is GABBY GABBY, an adorable, talking pull-string doll from the 1950s. But unfortunately for her, a manufacturing defect in her pull-string voice box has left her sounding anything but adorable. She has spent more than 60 years forgotten in the depths of a jam-packed antique store—her only companions are a band of voiceless ventriloquist dummies. Gabby Gabby knows someone will want her if only she can find a working voice box to repair hers.
Gabby Gabby is voiced by Christina Hendricks. “It became obvious right away that Christina was the perfect actress to play Gabby Gabby,” says director Josh Cooley. “She has the ability to sound inviting and friendly, then subtly become cold and terrifying in just a few words. It still gives me chills when I see Gabby’s introduction in the film. Also, Christina told me that she preferred playing with ventriloquist dummies over dolls as a kid. That’s when I knew it was meant to be.”
DUKE CABOOM is a 1970s toy based on Canada’s greatest stuntman. Riding his powerful Caboom stunt-cycle, Duke is always prepared to show off his stunt poses with confidence and swagger. However, Woody learns quickly that Duke has an Achilles heel: He has never been able to do the awesome stunts advertised in his own toy commercial. For years, Duke has been sitting in an antique store, constantly reliving the failures of his tragic past.
Duke Caboom is voiced by another great Canadian, Keanu Reeves. “The first time Josh [Cooley] and I talked with Keanu about the role, Keanu became Duke Caboom,” says producer Jonas Rivera. “Keanu was asking great questions that dug deep to find the soul of the character. At one point he stood up on the table in the middle of Pixar’s atrium and struck poses while proclaiming victory. It was so funny. It’s all in the movie and it’s all Keanu."
GIGGLE MCDIMPLES is a miniature plastic doll from the 1980s Giggle McDimples toy line. Giggle is Bo Peep’s best friend. Small enough to perch on Bo’s shoulder, Giggle is Bo’s confidant, supporter and advisor. “Giggle is Bo’s Jiminy Cricket—we’re able to get insight on Bo through their relationship together,” says Cooley. “Giggle is definitely the smallest toy in the Toy Story universe. She’s been stepped on, vacuumed up, and probably put up a kid’s nose in her time.”
Ally Maki voices the tiny character. “Giggle McDimples literally pops on the screen because of Ally’s personality and infectious energy,” says Cooley. “Nobody can laugh like Ally Maki."
BENSON is a classic, antique ventriloquist dummy, and Gabby Gabby’s right hand. He leads a small group of ventriloquist dummies that serve as Gabby's henchmen. With no person to give them a voice, these silent toys patrol the antique store with a looming quietness that is inherently unsettling.
“The dummies are, by far, some of the creepiest characters we’ve ever created,” says producer Mark Nielsen. “Our animators really leaned into the truth in materials for how our ventriloquist dummies move. Dummies’ bodies are soft with no structure, so our dummies’ arms just dangle and their legs bend backwards. Throw in their fixed expressions with their wide eyes and big hinged jaws and they’re nightmare material—in the best way possible.”
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Re: Toy Story 4
Stop chopping onions, Pixar, c'mon. Geesh, I know this has to be good if the trailer is making me this emotional. I'm so excited!!!!

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Re: Toy Story 4
Gabby Gabby must be based on those creepy dolls that sound like smokers laughing crazily. Funny how Toy Story 4 is becoming a better story about "ugly" toys than that Ugly Dolls movie coming out later this year.
The really sad thing is that while her story sounds compelling ... Gabby getting a new voice box may not matter even if she did get it replaced. Wheezy from TS2 had the same issue, a broken squeaker, but even after getting it fixed he ends up gone by the sequel.
Though I suppose Gabby has the cuteness factor, so long as she doesn't talk. (We'll see how bad it gets I suppose.)
And Duke sounds like what may have happened to a few Buzz Lightyears who got stuck in their packages never to be opened. Unable to do "their job".
Lots of identity crises in this film! Be sure to bring extra tissues.
The really sad thing is that while her story sounds compelling ... Gabby getting a new voice box may not matter even if she did get it replaced. Wheezy from TS2 had the same issue, a broken squeaker, but even after getting it fixed he ends up gone by the sequel.
Though I suppose Gabby has the cuteness factor, so long as she doesn't talk. (We'll see how bad it gets I suppose.)
And Duke sounds like what may have happened to a few Buzz Lightyears who got stuck in their packages never to be opened. Unable to do "their job".
Lots of identity crises in this film! Be sure to bring extra tissues.
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Re: Toy Story 4
Did Woody forget the lesson he learned in TS2, about being lured away from his owner in favor of a different life? That in the end, he wouldn't miss his owner growing up for the world?
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Re: Toy Story 4
There goes that theory.
Source: https://twitter.com/Skylerhxc/status/11 ... 6082299905Q: What if Bo Peep is the villain?!
Skyler Shuler: Nah, you’re good. She is our strong female protagonist.
Re: Toy Story 4
Footage looks good, but man are those fade in and outs annoying. I wanna slap the editor who thought that was an effective technique. I'd rather linger on a moment a bit longer and have less variety.
Bo sounds off. I guess it's her rhythm, its so much faster these days than any of her previous lines.
Bo sounds off. I guess it's her rhythm, its so much faster these days than any of her previous lines.
The fact that he'd get to also be with his girl probably makes the idea a lot more appealing this time around . He was never interested in Jessie romantically.Hardbackyoyo wrote:Did Woody forget the lesson he learned in TS2, about being lured away from his owner in favor of a different life? That in the end, he wouldn't miss his owner growing up for the world?