The Sword in the Stone Discussion

[Flanger-Hanger]

Question: Does anyone know why they used three different voice actors for Wart? I searched for an answer but I couldn't find it.

The original voice actor's voice changed during production so they got the director's 2 kids to record additional dialogue.

[Goliath]

Although I think it's the weakest Walt-era film, that doesn't mean I think it's the weakest Disney-film overall. And I do admit it's a funny film. With its accent on comedy, its light-hearted tone and its episodic structure, it's similar to Robin Hood, which is a favorite of mine. (But again, although it's a favorite, I acknowledge it's a weak film when it comes to animation/story.)

[Dudealadude]

Out of the films made in the 60s, 101 Dalmatians was easily my favorite. It had one of the best Disney Villains, likable characters, a beginning, middle and end, and wonderful animation.

I felt The Jungle Book and Sword in the Stone suffered from the same problem: Little to no plot. In SitS, the villain is not introduced until the last fifteen minutes. The rest is extremely boring, and feature no likable characters. The Jungle Book is slightly better as I enjoy the characters of Baloo and Bagheera, but really dislike the plot. It seems very boring and I dislike the music in both films.

[Deco King]

I love the great Mad Madam Mim - she's such a marvellously camp 1960's Witch , I really love it when , momentarily , she changes into an almost Bewitched like Femme Fatale! I actually love some of the songs too particularly Higitus Figitus!

I had ( still have actually it has a terrific cover !! ) a great LP of the story a dramatised version , and I always love Mim saying of the transfomed Wart coughing up soot : "Sounds Like Someone Sick I Do Hope It's Serious " !!!

[BelleGirl]

I remember that as a kid I went to the movies with my father to see a re-release of TSITS. There was such a long line and I was worried that there would be not tickets left for us, but there were.

I've recently purchased 'The Sword in the Stone' on dvd, as the only copy I had was a recording from TV interrupted by commercials.
TSITS is no masterpiece, and I can understand the criticism that the story is episodic. The characters are also quite sketchy.

But I enjoyed the movie anyway- though it does little justice to the Arthurian legend, it is a lot of fun. I especially like Archimedes.

[hoojib127]

It's not bad, but it's definitely the weakest animated feature overseen by Walt himself. I think the main problem is its episodic nature and lack of focus...as well as its very abrupt 'ending.'

[Disney's Divinity]

I never did buy the Blu-Ray (because of the hideous “restoration”), so I only saw the alternate opening bonus feature on a random YouTube search. Although—like with TENG’s beginning as Kingdom of the Sun—I’m very curious about how a film with this plot would’ve turned out, I wouldn’t really wouldn’t want a world without the film as it is (a minority opinion, I’m sure). Mim as a more serious villainess could’ve been brilliant though. I wonder if the moment in “MMM” when she turns herself young, if that design might have been a distant relation to the design they originally had for her? But the story they had sounds too much like a Maleficent ripoff; she sends a raven to find Arthur (whose been whisked away by Merlin for his own protection) is very similar to the fairies being caught by Diablo in SB while hiding Aurora from Maleficent. That and the fact that the current film is closer to the novel it’s based on are two reasons I’m glad the film turned out the way it did.

And while I’m here, I’ll throw in some praise for the film--the voice work is amazing. Martha Wentworth was great here and as Nanny in Dalmatians, too. Merlin, Archimedes, and Mim are some of Disney’s best characters, imo, and I’m glad they have often joined the ranks of Tinker Bell/Mickey and co. as far as moving outside the confines of the film story they come from in other Disney properties. And, while I am more fond of the Menken music in the ‘90s than I am the Sherman Bros, I love all the songs in this film. “But it’s only skin deep, for—Zim Zadame ZIIIIM! I’m an ugly, old creep!!!” Most Sherman Bros songs feel more like something you’d hum than sing, and these songs are their most hummable to me, particularly “TWMtWGR.” I feel the opening is a good bookend for the film.

[Sotiris]

Floyd Norman Remembers The Sword in the Stone: Part One
https://www.mouseplanet.com/11923/Floyd ... e_Part_One

Floyd Norman Remembers The Sword in the Stone: Part Two
https://www.mouseplanet.com/11932/Floyd ... e_Part_Two

[Disney's Divinity]

Thanks for posting, Sotiris.

Disney fans do not hate the film, but it certainly doesn't make it into anyone's top 10 lists either.

*tears* It does mine...

"Walt [Disney], the wizard, never knew that I patterned Merlin the magician after him when I wrote the script," remembered storyman Bill Peet when interviewed by John Province. "In his book, T.H. White describes the wizard as a crusty old curmudgeon, argumentative and temperamental, playful at times, and extremely intelligent. Walt was not quite a curmudgeon and he had no beard, but he was a grandfather and much more a character, and in my drawings of Merlin, I even borrowed Walt's nose and raised eyebrow."

Merlin is a nice image of Disney. That said, from what I've seen of Disney, I can't say Merlin exactly fits my picture of him (personality-wise), but it's a flattering portrait from someone who knew him at least on a professional level.

A wizard's duel between Merlin and Madam Mim dark ride was originally considered for the Magic Kingdom in 1971 as a substitute for the Snow White Scary Adventures attraction, but was later rejected by Roy O. Disney who felt that guests wanted to see some of the same attractions as Disneyland.

This would've been so cool! They probably made the right decision considering SW is a widely-beloved film and TSitS, well, isn't, but I would've rather that ride myself.

"It appeared we were going to animate this motion picture in a start-to-finish continuity. That is, the film was being made following the narrative and sequences moved into animation as storyman, Bill Peet turned them over to music room. This was very much out of the ordinary. In the past, we had animated scenes out of sequence, often concentrating on the easiest ones first to get drawings into the rest of the production process."

I'd never read that about this film before. I need to re-watch the film and see if the animation is stronger at the end v. the beginning as they got more comfortable. I can see why Mim sets such a spark in the film. I imagine she was a breath of fresh air for the animators after having to animate just Wart, Merlin, and Ector for so long. Although I imagine the squirrel, fish, and dish scenes at least broke up the monotony for them.

I wonder what other Disney films were animated in sequential order like TSitS (if any)?

"To be fair, these reuse scenes never did save any money. They were often a pain to do. It would have been far easier to animate the scene from scratch than trying to 'adapt' some earlier bit of animation to fit the new scene. In any case, no one ever managed to change Woolie's mind and he continued to use older animation whenever he could get away with it."

That's interesting to hear. I always wondered how they would really save costs... Maybe he just wanted to re-use animated sequences he knew turned out well? (i.e. He wasn't confident enough in the animators to create a new scene just as well?) Who knows. Maybe he thought eventually the process would save money even if the first attempts failed to do so and that's why he persisted.

"You had to admit, it was very funny stuff. During a song sequence in Mim's cottage, the female wizard turns herself into a tall, shapely young woman. Since I was cleaning up the scenes I couldn't help but be aware the sexy character reminded me of a co-worker.

"Milt never said he based his drawing on the young woman on the second floor, however after drawing her remarkable attributes day after day it became pretty obvious. At least to me, anyway.

"It was obvious it was inspired by layout artist Sylvia Roemer. Sylvia had started in Ink and Paint and worked her way up into layout. Others recognized the resemblance immediately as well but Sylvia either didn't notice or just never said anything."

Well... That's interesting. I wonder if there's a picture of Roemer somewhere out in the ether. Hmm. I think most would love to have a Disney character designed after them, but I wonder if she would have felt differently what with it being a "sexy" design... >>; I don't know, it's not horrible or anything, just possibly a touch inappropriate maybe. Especially not to get permission or give credit for the design. I wonder if Kahl ever attempted to date Roemer since he was clearly inspired by her, lol.

"Sadly, The Sword in the Stone never enjoyed the box office success of other Disney films. It was one of those rare Disney films that went off without a hitch. The animated film moved smoothly through production without a hiccup and perhaps that's the problem. Oh well. Sometimes, things simply don't work as well as we'd hoped.

"Most successful films seem to move in and out of disaster throughout production. Perhaps our kiss of death was because we never experience any trauma during production and that's why the finished movie appears to be so bland."

That's so true. I guess conflict is often good for a film? Although I'm sure that's not always the case either (Bolt, Brave). But that seems like a similar situation with a lot of successful films--Mermaid, B&tB, Aladdin, Jungle Book, Sleeping Beauty, Tangled, Frozen, etc.

"One thing continues to bother me about this Disney adaptation. At the end of the story Merlin returns from the future wearing a Hawaiian shirt, Bermuda shorts, sunglasses and sandals. Apparently, he had been vacationing in Bermuda. Though it was a totally wacky idea, that goofy notion totally took me out of the movie. It felt wrong back then—and it still feels odd when I watch the film today."

Odd, I've always loved that part. Oh well, everyone has a different reaction.

- I didn’t know this was the first film the Sherman Bros worked on.

- The picture of Merlin v. Maleficent made me burst out laughing.

- The one thing I hate when this film is talked about is that everyone always talks about how great Merlin and Mim are, which is true, but nobody ever mentions how hilarious Archimedes is. Mim is more entertaining--particularly visually--because she can shapeshift, but I find Archimedes to be much funnier than her. Merlin and Mim are probably better-voiced though, which might be the difference.

[Sotiris]

I wonder if there's a picture of Roemer somewhere out in the ether.

This is the only photo of hers I could find. She's the one with the short hair in the total-black outfit.


Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... nd-co.html

[Sotiris]

Did You Know? 10 Wizard Facts About Walt Disney’s The Sword in the Stone
https://d23.com/know-10-wizard-facts-wa ... ord-stone/

[Disney's Divinity]

Did You Know? 10 Wizard Facts About Walt Disney’s The Sword in the Stone
https://d23.com/know-10-wizard-facts-wa ... ord-stone/

From that write-up (just to have the source here with the quotes):

Karl Swenson recommended Matthews to Walt, pointing out the versatile actor had provided the voice of a potato on a radio program. However, he was originally cast as the voice of Merlin, but then switched roles with Swenson and became the voice of Merlin’s owl.

It's hard to imagine Archimedes' voice as Merlin. He probably would've come across more like Doli from The Black Cauldron. Btw, I bolded that one part because it made me laugh.

In animating Archimedes, supervising animator Ollie Johnston brought to life one of his all-time favorite scenes of his own animation—the scene of Archimedes convulsed with laughter when Merlin crashes his model airplane.

In one of the most unusual sequences in Disney animation, Merlin changes himself and Wart into squirrels where a lovely little girl squirrel falls for Wart, unaware that in reality he’s a human. The sequence was originally to focus on the squirrels trying to avoid the hungry wolf who is seen at different points in the film. But the performance of the actress providing the chattering voice of the female squirrel changed Frank Thomas’s entire concept for the scene. Thanks to her charming vocalization, Thomas transformed the sequence into a bittersweet encounter for animator, characters, and audience. When Walt saw Frank’s animation he suggested that a Granny Squirrel be added to pursue Merlin. Thomas was so fond of the squirrel sequence, it was screened at his memorial service after he passed away in 2004.

To the bolded in these two quotes: I love to see how much the animators remembered this film so fondly. Interesting that the voice actor impacted the scene so much (and for the better, imo).

I didn't know Merlin's voice actor had been on Little House on the Prairie. I still watch that show sporadically in re-runs (although I doubt I've seen every episode), mostly for Katherine MacGregor who sadly passed away recently. I suppose I'll keep an eye out if I see him after Google searching what he looked like dressed as the character.

I love the soundtrack's record cover!

[Sotiris]

The film is loosely based on the novel The Once and Future King by author T.H. White first published in 1958. The book collects and extensively revises several shorter novels by White published from 1938 to 1940 but eliminates things from the previous books including the character of Mim who appeared in the first novel.

Peet decided to resurrect Mim as a character for the film and incorporate the magical duel as it would be a visual treat. In one of his proposals for an alternate opening, he intended to have Madam Mim usurp the throne of England by trying to kill young Arthur before he ever pulled the sword and her using a raven to keep surveillance for her.

As Peet remembered, “When I designed Madam Mim, Walt said, “Who is this frowzy old lady? Bill, why can’t we have a big, tall dame with black hair?’ I said, ‘Walt, we always do that. She has to be a counterpart to Merlin. He’s an old eccentric, and so she has to be too. They have to match’.”

Animator Frank Thomas wrote, “The mad Madam Mim was a contrast of wild actions and restraint with unexpected outbursts accenting her overall timing. Storyman Bill Peet gave us the wizard’s duel, a perfect use of animation, maintaining personalities through a surprising change in forms and exciting action.”

Source: https://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/mad-madam-mim/

[Farerb]

In one of his proposals for an alternate opening, he intended to have Madam Mim usurp the throne of England by trying to kill young Arthur before he ever pulled the sword and her using a raven to keep surveillance for her.

Reading this made me realize that my lack of interest in this film is probably due to the film lacking any tension or suspense. I kind of wish the film had been more like that, utilizing all the richness of the Arthurian Legends instead of having episodic sequences of Merlin teaching Arthur something.

[Disney's Divinity]

I'm glad they did go with the design in the finished film. Admittedly, I wish we got to see more of her as the tall / sexy Mim, too. Actually, the tall Mim was more my vision of the character in TSitS book. Although the plot of her interfering with the throne feels too serious for the character (even in reference to the book's Mim, who is more intimidating, that's too large a scope for her).

[Farerb]

I remember we had the aspect ratio discussion in the Disney Plus thread but it seems like it's more relevant here. I recently watched both the Google version (the 1.33 unrestored one) and the D+ 4K version which is 1.75. First I'll say that the 4K looks a lot better imo regardless of the aspect ratio. But as for the aspect ratio, I consulted with a friend as to why would they animate and shoot the film in 1.33 in order for it to be cropped at theaters and he told me that they probably intended for the film to be in 1.75 but wanted a 1.33 for cinemas that still weren't capable to present in 1.75, but more importantly for later TV viewing. They didn't go through with doing the same thing they did with Lady and the Tramp in order to not spend more money, it's cheaper to assemble the film only once and crop it.

Anyway I guess both versions are technically correct but the theatrical presentation is 1.75 and personally I prefer it because I feel like the intended framing is important even if there's more image (which is basically more empty background), but even if you compare this film to 101 Dalmatians, you can tell that if you crop 101 Dalmatians you don't only lose background but you also lose some parts of the characters and that doesn't happen with The Sword in the Stone, but more importantly it feels like the characters are more in focus in 101 Dalmatians while in The Sword in the Stone they are small and zoomed out - more than previous 1.33 films. I think a good indication of that are the opening credits - in The Sword in the Stone they are very in the middle and don't take advantage of the space while in 101 Dalmatians they are.

Anyway, that's the most attention I've given to this film. I probably would have done this with The Jungle Book as well if I had a way to watch the 1.33 version.

[Farerb]

I don't know if anyone noticed but a week ago Google/Youtube updated their digital version of The Sword in the Stone from the 1.33 version to the D+ version.