Moana

[jazzflower92]

Gosh, saying the 90's movie were diverse and nuanced is more nostalgia goggles opinion rather than truth.

If you think a lineup of characters like Ariel, Aladdin, Belle, Beast, Simba, Quasimodo, Pocahontas, Mulan isn't a little more diverse than every guy between Naveen and Maui having the same personality then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe a preference for "new" is blinding you?

There is a reason why just the same old heroine was sang in Animaniacs. If someone was critical of the 90's then they would find that the main characters had their own similarities, and say that they are rehashing those same archetypes. Ironically, you guys have become the old farts who are getting critical of everything new and take some time to notice a pattern or formula. I can say the biggest difference between Naveen and Maui is the former is a playboy who has had everything handed to him and never really had to work a day in his life, while the latter is a demi-god who has fall down from grace and has to reclaim himself as a hero. For Maui he is someone has centuries of experience, and the type of cockiness is from knowing he's got the skills to do it but has made terrible mistakes because of it.

[Disney's Divinity]

We all know that the '90s films are formulaic. And they are criticized for it. So what is your argument for why the new films are above reproach again?

But to get back to the point: Maui and Naveen (and the other male leads from the new films) have plot differences, but their personalities are largely the same: wisecracking know-it-alls. That's a far cry from Pocahontas, who is reserved, to Ariel, who is vibrant and daring, to Simba, who is cowardly, to Beast, who is spoiled and cruel, to Quasi, who is fearful, etc. While their films largely fell into the same plot steps of an outsider wanting something on the other side of the fence that they can't have just like the new films are all buddy roadtrips, the characters are more diverse and nuanced.

[jazzflower92]

We all know that the '90s formulaic. And they are criticized for it. So what is your argument for why the new films are above reproach again?

But to get back to the point: Maui and Naveen (and the other male leads from the new films) have plot differences, but their personalities are largely the same: wisecracking know-it-alls. That's a far cry from Pocahontas, who is reserved, to Ariel, who is vibrant and daring, to Simba, who is cowardly, to Beast, who is spoiled, to Quasi, who is fearful, etc.

The thing is you guys are really not so different form the 90's critics, because they don't realize how much differences each of the protagonists have. People here are so set on finding everything wrong with the new decade, because it doesn't fit everything they want. To the point that they will not see any differences that the protagonists do have, in order to justify the reason that they believe every movie coming out is the same old protagonist. The thing is you are putting down new movies in order to build up the movies you grew up on.

You say all of them are wise cracking know it alls, but that is actually a simplification from what they actually are. When you add their other qualities they become more different than you initially tag them as. For one thing, they come from a lot of different backgrounds and even have different views on life. On the surface you can say they are the same, but underneath they do have a lot of differences than people are willing to admit.

The same people here who say that male heroes are now all wise cracking know it alls would take offense at Disney 90's heroes for being wide eyed dreamers who sing about how they want more in life.

[JeanGreyForever]

You say all of them are wise cracking know it alls, but that is actually a simplification from what they actually are. When you add their other qualities they become more different than you initially tag them as. For one thing, they come from a lot of different backgrounds and even have different views on life. On the surface you can say they are the same, but underneath they do have a lot of differences than people are willing to admit.

The same people here who say that male heroes are now all wise cracking know it alls would take offense at Disney 90's heroes for being wide eyed dreamers who sing about how they want more in life.

Not really. Naveen, Flynn, and Nick are all like that. Even Kristoff to a certain extent although he's more balanced. While Anna, Rapunzel, Judy, and Honey Lemon are all sweet and bubbly. The Renaissance had tropes, but the characters were more balanced personality wise and design wise. Ariel and Belle have little in common and even their way of dreaming. Ariel gives up everything for her dream while Belle simply wishes for adventure but never actually pursues it. Jasmine is the closest derivative to Ariel, but she's even more fiery and more quick-witted. Pocahontas is more introverted but has the more playful and mischievous parts of Ariel. Also her dreams are the most undefined. And I can go on and on whereas the new Revival characters lack a lot of the same subtle nuances and almost all look exactly the same, the female characters anyway.

Gosh, saying the 90's movie were diverse and nuanced is more nostalgia goggles opinion rather than truth.

If you think a lineup of characters like Ariel, Aladdin, Belle, Beast, Simba, Quasimodo, Pocahontas, Mulan isn't a little more diverse than every guy between Naveen and Maui having the same personality then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe a preference for "new" is blinding you?

Agreed

[jazzflower92]

You say all of them are wise cracking know it alls, but that is actually a simplification from what they actually are. When you add their other qualities they become more different than you initially tag them as. For one thing, they come from a lot of different backgrounds and even have different views on life. On the surface you can say they are the same, but underneath they do have a lot of differences than people are willing to admit.

The same people here who say that male heroes are now all wise cracking know it alls would take offense at Disney 90's heroes for being wide eyed dreamers who sing about how they want more in life.

Not really. Naveen, Flynn, and Nick are all like that. Even Kristoff to a certain extent although he's more balanced. While Anna, Rapunzel, Judy, and Honey Lemon are all sweet and bubbly. The Renaissance had tropes, but the characters were more balanced personality wise and design wise. Whereas the new Revival characters almost all look exactly the same, the female characters anyway.

If you think a lineup of characters like Ariel, Aladdin, Belle, Beast, Simba, Quasimodo, Pocahontas, Mulan isn't a little more diverse than every guy between Naveen and Maui having the same personality then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe a preference for "new" is blinding you?

Agreed

I've seen the old Rapunzel clone complaint over and over again, and it's really about people trying to find a new way to say that the new Disney sucks.

And again I see with the Anna, Rapunzel, Judy, and Honey comparisons, people forget that they do have differences that stand out between them all. For one thing, Judy is probably more of a realist than Anna or Rapunzel could be and has secret faults like bigotry to overcome. While Anna and Rapunzel do have a lot in common, Rapunzel isn't as interested in romance as Anna was at first and wanted to explore more the world. Anna in comparison with Rapunzel, is more in over her head and is less capable of doing certain things on her own at first. Honey Lemon might look sweet and bubbly, but she is also someone who was very much on board with getting into the idea of being a super hero and her fascination with chemistry also makes her stand out from the others.

Naveen is a freaking prince who is more of a updated and flawed version of the Disney prince, Flynn is more of a lovable rogue type of hero in the spirit of Aladdin, and Nick is a conman who has been made jaded by a system that enforces stereotypes about his species.

[Disney's Divinity]

Look, you like new Disney and there's nothing wrong with that. And I'll admit I'm probably harsher on the newer films than the average person who sees them (or average poster here for that matter) because of my personal preference. But I don't think I'm being unreasonable to say that the '90s heroes were much more diverse than this despite their own formulaic plot issues.

[D82]

I'm not a big fan of pop references in Disney films either, but that is a Ron & John trademark, so I wasn't surprised.

I can't recall any pop culture jokes in any of their films aside from Aladdin and Hercules. In Aladdin it was limited to the Genie where it made sense as part of the movie's internal logic. It's assumed the Genie can travel through time and space and that's why he's anachronistic and why other characters don't "get" the jokes. Hercules was an irreverent, comedic, heavily Americanized take on the myth and it was made clear from the very beginning. The tone was set from the start and the jokes and references were in line with that. However, in Moana these kind of jokes clash with the established tone and feel artificial and forced. I instantly cringed upon hearing the 'tweet' and 'princess' jokes. They're too 'meta'/'wink at the audience' and simply don't work within the film's framework.

Oh, it’s true, only Aladdin and Hercules had pop culture references. I didn’t stop to analyse it too much when I wrote. So maybe it’s not one of their trademarks, but it’s something they obviously like. And I agree, in both films that kind of jokes made sense, while they feel out of place in Moana. Well, Maui like the Genie is a character with magical abilities that has lived hundreds of years, but I don’t think he can travel through time, so that particular joke about Twitter doesn’t make sense. I don’t mind them if these are the only two pop references the film has, I just hope they don’t rely on these types of jokes too much.

[D82]

Disney animator Jorgue Ruiz presented some clips from the film at the "Festival People en Español" this past weekend in New York. Here's a recap of the footage that was shown at the event: http://www.slashfilm.com/moana-footage-recap/

Lin-Manuel Miranda was also there and he talks a bit about Moana at the beginning of the following video: https://www.facebook.com/disneymoana/po ... 4692518455

[disneyprincess11]

Why is Disney keep on showing the same exact clips in festivals? Why not the crab, Moana's song, the death of the grandmother etc.?

[KennethE]

Hello everybody. Many of you will not even remember me because I haven't logged in since 2010 (back then, we were discussing whether or not Tangled was a good or bad name...) Anyways, i"m back again, and I can't wait to see Moana.

I only have one question/concern about the film... will the music be as awesome as it's cracked up to be? I've heard a lot of talk about the composers and all the past works he's done, but besides the Lilo-and-Stitch'ish song in the background of the trailer, I haven't gotten the sense there is any music at all. Does anybody know anything more about the songs?

[Tangled]

Does anybody know anything more about the songs?

Welcome back!

There was this one song that Moana sings that was found from a singing doll (there was a high-quality recording of it on the Disney Store website, but I think that Disney may have taken it down. Thankfully, someone reuploaded it to Tumblr).

Besides that, I don't know much. Thankfully, there is only a month until the soundtrack comes out. I'm sure we'll hear more about the other songs and their titles very soon. Still, at least the trailers acknowledge the original music in the trailers. I know way too many people who saw Tangled and were shocked when Rapunzel started singing When Will My Life Begin because Disney completely hid that it was a musical in trailers (although, in general, I think that Tangled's marketing scheme actually worked for the better, since it allowed the film to exceed most people's expectations from the title/trailers. Since 2010 at least, I actually do think that every single Disney Animation film has been way better than their American trailers made them appear. Odds are, Moana will be no exception).

[disneyprincess11]

Does anybody know anything more about the songs?

I made a list on Tumblr on what we have so far

http://oh-that-disney-princess-emily.tu ... vie-so-far

Plus, Lin just mentioned on Twitter that there is an opening number.

[DisneyFan09]

And again I see with the Anna, Rapunzel, Judy, and Honey comparisons, people forget that they do have differences that stand out between them all. For one thing, Judy is probably more of a realist than Anna or Rapunzel could be and has secret faults like bigotry to overcome. While Anna and Rapunzel do have a lot in common, Rapunzel isn't as interested in romance as Anna was at first and wanted to explore more the world. Anna in comparison with Rapunzel, is more in over her head and is less capable of doing certain things on her own at first. Honey Lemon might look sweet and bubbly, but she is also someone who was very much on board with getting into the idea of being a super hero and her fascination with chemistry also makes her stand out from the others.

Naveen is a freaking prince who is more of a updated and flawed version of the Disney prince, Flynn is more of a lovable rogue type of hero in the spirit of Aladdin, and Nick is a conman who has been made jaded by a system that enforces stereotypes about his species.

You know, despite this getting off-topic and nitpicking, I actually agree with you. Though I can see the similarities between Rapunzel and Anna, I actually find them different in several aspects. Rapunzel has her energetic moments, but she's overall more subdued and vulnerable than Anna. Both Anna and Honey Lemon are quite similar, yet Anna is perhaps a little more self-depricating in a silly way. But both of them are more over-the-top energetic than Rapunzel.

When it comes to Flynn and Naveen, they have both similar traits and attitudes, yet they still come across as different characters. Naveen is snarky and smooth, yet somewhat less wisecracking than Flynn and obviously more fun-loving and perky. Flynn is snarky, smooth, yet more calm and somewhat has more obvious cynicism beneath his nature. I'm not saying that Naveen doesn't have it, but Flynn shows it more. Besides, despite both having similar traits, Naveen happens to be an actual playboy, whereas Flynn never interacts with any other woman besides Rapunzel. Kristoff has his moments of snark, yet Kristoff comes across as more subdued than both of them.

Otherwise I agree that their same traits are overused again and again. Despite not being exact same clones, their traits are overused.

[D82]

Two new promo videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKsHkQqMBdk
https://twitter.com/TheRock/status/788754613251874816


And it seems Disney is going to release a best of Te Vaka album.

Julie Foa'i, band manager and Opetaia's wife, says the Moana soundtrack is loaded with Te Vaka.

"There's a lot of tracks written by Opetaia in there, and when you hear the movie you will hear a lot of his input into the soundtrack and into the songs. Put it this way - the movie opens with Te Vaka," says Foa'i.

The group will perform two songs at the film's red carpet premier on November 14, and already "have the visas" for a potential performance at the Oscars should Moana be nominated.

"Disney actually loved Te Vaka so much they're actually going to release a best of Te Vaka album," she says.

Source: http://www.niufm.com/whats-fresh/disney ... of-te-vaka

[Disney's Divinity]

I guess John Lasseter has finally found a new muse to replace Randy Newman.

[DisneyEra]

Another day, another race-bait article about Moana. Here's a small piece:

"But while Anna and Elsa, the sisters at the heart of "Frozen," were fairytale princesses, Polynesians are real people, and there is anxiety that "Moana" might do to Polynesia's nations and territories what comedian Sasha Baron Cohen's "mockumentary" "Borat" did for Kazakhstan and its 17 million people in 2006: turn them into a laughingstock."

It's almost like they want the movie to be racist. What a sad mindset these bigoted people have.

http://asia.nikkei.com/magazine/2016102 ... d-cultures

[Disney's Divinity]

What a sad mindset these bigoted people have.

Projection?

[DisneyEra]

What a sad mindset these bigoted people have.

Projection?

They're comparing Moana to Borat. Earlier they were comparing Maui to Uncle Remus. I remember one twitter rant saying about Moana, "If your not Polynesian I don't care what your white-ass thinks". Yes, Bigoted people.

[Disney's Divinity]

Lots of Disney films have and do get racist/sexist accusations lobbed at them. That doesn't make Disney's detractors "bigoted."

[jazzflower92]

Another day, another race-bait article about Moana. Here's a small piece:

"But while Anna and Elsa, the sisters at the heart of "Frozen," were fairytale princesses, Polynesians are real people, and there is anxiety that "Moana" might do to Polynesia's nations and territories what comedian Sasha Baron Cohen's "mockumentary" "Borat" did for Kazakhstan and its 17 million people in 2006: turn them into a laughingstock."

It's almost like they want the movie to be racist. What a sad mindset these bigoted people have.

http://asia.nikkei.com/magazine/2016102 ... d-cultures

That post is so many levels of ignorant, due to the fact that Anna and Elsa's homeland is based on Norway. You know the funny thing is people have been siding with Maui's design, because he bucks the trend of Hollywood standard of attractiveness.