DISNEY AND CENSORSHIP ON HOME VIDEO

[herman_the_german]

http://www.teemings.com/shorts/disney/petition/

Can we also start an official list of censored moments in Disney feature films?

Here is a list of the shorts:

http://www.aros.net/~pov/issue08/censorship.html

[Prince Adam]

What was Aladdin's song, and what's wrong with the black centeur in Fantasia? Was it forced to work or something? It can't be worse than the zebra-centeurs (representing Africans) who served that King guy. And another thing, why didn't Disney ever edit Peter Pan? If you edit one, you have to edit another...

[herman_the_german]

Disney has censored, panned or completely reanimated scenes in Fantasia involving the black centaur servants assisting white centaurettes. See bottom of page, the actual clips are there, so don't miss it:

http://www.widescreen.org/multimedia.shtml

Another form of editing happened in 1992's Aladdin. Some Arab Americans were angry over a song in the movie that said, "Where they cut off your ear if they don't like your face/It's barbaric but hey, it's home." Disney eventually changed the lyrics.

An article:

http://www.widescreen.org/commentaries/ ... _apr.shtml

[Prince Phillip]

I chose the Aladdin song, although I have two soundtracks of Aladdin and they each feature the unedited song.

Also I don't mean to offend anyone on the board, but I think the "black" centaur is a little stupid. From what I understand it wasn't even black it was just a dark color and it was serving something to a light colored centaur, but there were also light colored centaurs serving the the light colored one... (Now this is just what I heard, so don't hold me to it)

If disney has to censor everything that might be offensive to a certain time period, why no edit the "Prince Ali" song that sports words saying that he has plenty of slaves that enjoy serving him?

The cigarettes are also stupid, since everywhere you turn there is someone smoking...

And a bit off topic, but the guns in E.T. did not have to be replaced by walky-talkies.

And just another quick comment on the centaur thing, unless this centaur in question was bound in chains, who can say it was a slave or whatever to the other one... Still I guess this had to do with the era in which it was altered, but if an uncensored version still exists I think it is high time to break that one out...

It is time to put back in whatever has been edited and taken out of these movies.

[Prince Adam]

All I can say is that these should not be censored-what appeared in those movies and shorts were acceptable for that time-period, and everybody needs to remember that. In the 1940's, no one cared that the darker centeur seemed to be serving the lighter one. There's an animator who was interviewed for the Walt: The Man Behind the Myth documentary: he had darker coloured skin, and whenever someone accused Walt or the studio of being racist, he said "You didn't know Walt then."

Simple as that.

Well, not really, but I'll leave it at that for now.

[Prince Phillip]

Just found this out. Another example, of unneccesary editing or censoring...

# In 1997, Disney officials shut down Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean ride for a face lift--and in the process changed the scenes in which the audio-animatronic pirates chased buxom women. After some tinkering, Disney Imagineers placed trays of turkey and wine in the maidens' hands, so that it would appear the pirates were chasing them for food and drink.

I do not think this was needed.
Tis a shame I never got a chance to ride this ride and now if I ever do, it will have been tinckerd with, and probably be made to resemble the movie more

Oh, and do to it's success, a sequel to POTC is being made...

[2099net]

It's hard to look at anything with complete objectivity. It's true that the cartoons of the 30's and 40's (not just Disney but all studios) had appalling black or black faced characters. But they also had appalling white characters - drunken Irishmen, ignorant hillbillies etc.

The problem is the early cartoons were just that - cartoons. Only animated. And printed, static cartoons had evolved by playing up and exaggerating exiting stereotypes (and this themselves 'validating' such stereotypes). But had the creators downplayed the stereotypes at the time, they would probably have been critisised for ignoring black people!

As both static and animated cartoons moved on, such stereotyping was slowly abandoned, as more and more characters became removed from human (usually becoming animals).

I feel the disclaimers before the Mickey Mouse "Blackface" gags on the Black and White Treasures set are appropriate. You may argue that they draw attention to the gags - but that's no bad thing. Personally I would like to have seen more - a commentary track on one or two of the shorts would have been most informative, and could have addressed the issues in more depth.

That said, considering the situation in the Southern states at that time, I feel any references to slavery iself, even then, were wrong and ill-judged. The Fantasia example, I feel, comes into this category. But it does not mean that I want it replaced (or "zoomed in") - I just want somebody at Disney to present it as it originally was and for Disney as a company to take responsibility for a ill-advised choice from their past.

I just question if disclaimers will be placed before cartoons showing lazy, boozy, stereotyped Irish leprechauns, mean Scotchmen or ignorant "inbread" hillbillies. (Which when if comes down to it, is what Elmer Fudd almost is - it's certainly what inspired his creation)

People need to step away from the skin colour and look at the actual stereotyped portrayal of characters - others are just as offensive as "blackface" gags. To simply single out slights and visual gags against black people is wrong.

[Maerj]

I want to add that agree with what 2099 says above.

I was unaware of the Pirates of the Carribean ride change, but I have been on it several times. I don't think that the tray actually changed the intention to the public, it just looks like he is after a servant lady now, hehe! I also read a statement that Disney will not change the ride to resemble the movie more, it will be left as it is. Also, there are many parts of the ride that actually turn up in the movie, so there really is no need to change the ride at all.

As far as the Centaurs go, yeah they were portrayed as black servants, thats true. They had their hair in these braids that stuck up from their heads in the typical manner that blacks were portrayed back then. I'd still like to have it uncut though, like in a Treasures tin, I wouldn't mind buying it twice if it would mean getting the original version uncut and uncensored.

[herman_the_german]

changed the scenes in which the audio-animatronic pirates chased buxom women.

And yet they left the pirates auctioning women off as "brides"!!!

Can't figure that one out!

Another one that slipped by is in the Disneyland DVD. At one point in the documentary a Barber Shop Quartet (all white of course) is in Main Street singing a song about "pluckin' cotton and working in the fields for Massa"!
I'm glad they left it in, but I can't figure out how they missed it!

[Maerj]

I voted for the Martin and Coy segment, here's why:

Pecos Bill's cigarrette: It was dumb to censor this, but its a breif segment, I can live with out it.

Fantasia's black centaur: I actually would like this uncensored VERY much. This is film history, a masterpiece! It deserves to be released as it was originally intended. I don't mind if they want to censor it for familes and sensative types, but the original should be made available for us collectors as well.

The Martins & the Coys: I voted for this one. This was an ENTIRE segment cut out of the movie for the dumbest reason in the world! No kid is going to shoot anyone because they saw it in an old cartoon! I voted for this because it wasn't only censored, it was removed in its entirety.


'Der Fuehrer's Face: I didn't vote for this as it will be on a Treasures set.

Knick Knack's mermaid's boobs: Again, a dumb cut! Women have breasts, some are overly large, stop being so uptight! lol

Jessica Rabbit : I assume this means the infamous 'no panty' scene. It was a frame or two that an animator didn't paint in and the only way to see it was freeze framing it. No big deal, don't care about it in the least.

Aladdin's song: This was cut due to PC BS. Dumb to cut it, but I can live with it the way it is as I believe none of the animation was actually altered.

[Prince Adam]

To shy away from censorship for just a moment:
[quote="Prince Phillip"]
Oh, and do to it's success, a sequel to POTC is being made...[/quote]

I'm really excited about this, but they should let me see the first one...first.

[Prince Phillip]

I agree with you 2099net, and a point I wanted to make in my original post, is that if you are going to put disclaimers do it for all of them, that such stuff would apply to...

for example, scenes in the disclaimer are taken from Galloping Gaucho, yet there is no disclaimer at the begging of this cartoon... Could not this be seen as offensive Mexican stereo typing...

And as for the stereotypical Irish/hillbillies ect. It seems to be pollitically correct to make fun and stereo type whites, asians, ect. there is just one area that seems to be off limits, although I believe there was a disclaimer before the Indian one, don't know the title...

I think there should have been one before the China Plate, since I think it makes the Chinese look bad in certain areas, but oh well...

Also, did anyone see the Mickey (color) Cartoon where Donald pulls out a gun, and threatens to blow away the audience? That really surprised me, but I was glad it was included and not cut out.

We should be getting unedited versions of the package films, but possibly not Pastoral Symphony, which is my favorite segment in Fantasia.

[herman_the_german]

for example, scenes in the disclaimer are taken from Galloping Gaucho, yet there is no disclaimer at the begging of this cartoon... Could not this be seen as offensive Mexican stereo typing...

Not unless they are of Mexican-Argentinian descent!

[2099net]

Remember Disney and other studios were only reflecting the culture of the time. It says more the for culture then that when Warners released thier first 'talkie' they thought nothing of having an actor "black-up" and sing. Today these cartoons are often singled out because, due to the nature of them being cartoons, the subjects exaggerated physically. I wonder, if the "Jazz Singer" was released on DVD tomorrow, would that get an disclaimer/introduction?

I doubt it as that is seen as movie history, and cartoons are seen as... well... just cartoons and inconsequential.

Moving on, we may like to think that we as a culture have moved on since the 30's, but I have to wonder... Look at the fact that shows like "Are you Being Served?" were made in the 70's. In fact there were shows much worse than "Are You Being Served?" made in England in the 70's. (I suggest somebody looks up "Mind Your Language" or "Love Thy Neighbour" one day for some truly appaling, cringeworthy and offensive stereotyping.) So (Britain at least) was just as bad in the 70's.

Yet "Are You Being Served?" is incredibly popular in the US today - I understand - despite featuring a stereotypical gay man (Mr Humphries), a stereotypical Spinster (Mrs. Slocumbe) a sterotypical woman-chaser (Mr Lucas), and lots and lots of crude single (not even double) entendres. In fact a better name would be "Are You Being Stereotyped?". I cannot understand why people find this entertaining in this day and age, and it does make me embarrased to be British. Does this mean the US is just as bad in the 21st Century?

But none of this means that I want it banned. I wonder if DVDs of "AYBS?" will have disclaimers in front in the future?

[Prince Phillip]

I don't care about the stereotypes, I think they can be funny if they are not mean, my point was that if you are going to put a disclaimer infront of a cartoon, movie, whatever, don't just do it because there is black stereotyping, doing it for hispanic, asian, gay, whatever...

I mean I'm not black, so maybe I can't talk, but I find the way the chinese are stereotyped, in the China plate, way more offensive then the out calls of "Mamy" when a character becomes black in the face, but that is just me. I don't find the Galloping Gaucho offensive, but it is the thought, that they use scenes of it for the disclaimer and yet the disclaimer is not present at the begginning of it... but I wioll stop now...

[herman_the_german]

I mean I'm not black, so maybe I can't talk, but I find the way the chinese are stereotyped, in the China plate, way more offensive then the out calls of "Mamy" when a character becomes black in the face, but that is just me. I don't find the Galloping Gaucho offensive...

I don't think you got my joke. Gauchos are from Argentina, not Mexico.

And about "not being black", I don't think that matters, saying you need to be black to be offended would be stereotyping again. As a human being you have a right to be offended or not be offended regardless of your race or the fact that the "race" that is being presented differs from yours, aren't we simply talking about other human beings? (however, in this case we are talking about a mouse ).

Taking offense at anti-Jewish Nazi propaganda makes sense, because of its malicious intent, but taking offense at what is meant to be a cute tribute (such as a gaucho movie) is silly. Even people from Argentina are exposed to gaucho movies once in awhile . It's like saying you find Italian Westerns offensive because the cowboys presented might be stereotypical of Americans.

What I don't think anybody should do is try to determine what would be offensive to others and proceed to censor based on that belief.
Personally, I don't find any of this stuff as offensive as the censorship itself. When others censor what I might see I feel treated as if I am a child (or somebody with not enough maturity) that needs to be protected from such things.

[Prince Phillip]

And about "not being black", I don't think that matters, saying you need to be black to be offended would be stereotyping again. As a human being you have a right to be offended or not be offended regardless of your race or the fact that the "race" that is being presented differs from yours, aren't we simply talking about other human beings? (however, in this case we are talking about a mouse ).

I didn't mean it like that, I just didn't want anyone to say "your not black, so you don't understand, or something like that...

Oh, and thanks for correcting me -- Argintina

Galloping Gaucho happens to be one of my fav. Mickey cartoons

[herman_the_german]

I didn't mean it like that, I just didn't want anyone to say "your not black, so you don't understand, or something like that...

That's exactly what I meant. If somebody says that, he/she is just using a double standard! They are saying that they are the same as you, but you cannot be the same as them!

You may not be black, but you are just as human. Culturally it may be out of your scope, but you are certainly smart enough to figure out the equivalent in your own culture and identify with it.

I am Mexican American, grew up on the Mexican side of the border and do not identify with any of the Mexican American or Chicano minority groups, they are as alien to me as any other US subculture. Trying to adapt myself to fitting into one of these subgroups would just narrow down my cultural scope and impoverish my heritage.
I have my own defined sense of cultural identity, which I share with those of my family or of my community. I have no need to put a fence around me. I'd rather open the gates.

Take it from me, I do belong to a cultural / racial minority, but it is not in my interest to narrow myself further. On the contrary I welcome all cultural experiences and am richer for it. The same goes for anybody else, wichever way they wish to define themselves racially or culturally; you could be "white" but you already share in the "black" culture. This is undeniable, specially in the US. I don't think somebody who is black (or whatever) can tell you "sorry, you can't get black (or whatever) culture", that is just very narrowminded. And it is also unfair since it already is a part of your background.

[MickeyMouseboy]

Fantasia's Black Centaur

[Porce]

I can't vote. Censorship needs to die completely, not partially.