Moana

[Sotiris]

I'll just resign myself to another Lasseter movie with M&C's names slapped on for window dressing.

Wasn't The Princess and the Frog exactly that?

[disneyprincess11]

Be reassured disneyprincess11...

[disneyprincess11]

My friend just showed me this:

http://www.enstarz.com/articles/92593/2 ... -video.htm

1) Dinah didn't audition for the role of Moana. She campaigned for the part, like Alicia Keys & Tyra Banks for Tiana.

2) Telling from the date of the tweet, whoever Moana is LITERALLY just got cast for the part.

3) Another entertainer Malikai is auditioning for this movie too. Big brother?

[2Disney4Ever]

Well while you figure out who the voices are, I'll just be waiting until I see the first trailer to decide if I think Moana will be any better or just another disappointing example of "fake Disney animation".

[disneyprincess11]

^Sorry to say, but no matter what, you are going to disregard it just because it's CGI.

[2Disney4Ever]

^Sorry to say, but no matter what, you are going to disregard it just because it's CGI.

Well maybe not necessarily. Don't forget the supposed "painted" visual style I've heard the movie's supposed to have. Plus I actually really liked the 2D/CG hybrid short Paperman, so if there's any sort of 2D aesthetic to be found in the animation that helps me to not think of it as CGI, then I'd probably be more accepting of it.

[disneyprincess11]

Alrght, that's great. Keep an open mind!

[Disney's Divinity]

Wasn't The Princess and the Frog exactly that?

Yes. But I like to think Tiana being such a strong character and the phenomenal voice acting were examples that M&C were involved to a small extent.

[Sotiris]

Yes. But I like to think Tiana being such a strong character and the phenomenal voice acting were examples that M&C were involved to a small extent.

The Princess and the Frog was the first M&C film which felt creatively disjointed. They were trying to bring together two different storytelling sensibilities. You could tell which elements were by R&J and which ones were by Lasseter. Randy Newman, New Orleans, the buddy/road trip formula, the swamp scenes etc. Basically, every element that was detrimental to the film reeked of Lasseter.

[disneyprincess11]

The Princess and the Frog was the first M&C film which felt creatively disjointed. They were trying to bring together two different storytelling sensibilities.

That was Treasure Planet to Me. The colonial times theme mixed with the space theme looked really awkward and was horrible, blended together. Top of that, John Silver's arc is very confusing and Jim is a very forgettable character.

The Princess and the Frog was the first M&C film which felt creatively disjointed. They were trying to bring together two different storytelling sensibilities. You could tell which elements were by R&J and which ones were by Lasseter. Randy Newman, New Orleans, the buddy/road trip formula, the swamp scenes etc. Basically, every element that was detrimental to the film reeked of Lasseter.

If you don't mind me asking, what's wrong with Lasseter's creativity? I thought story-wise, they couldn't do a more better job with reimaginaing the fairy tale.

[Sotiris]

If you don't mind me asking, what's wrong with Lasseter's creativity.

I don't have time to get into detail so let's just say that Lasseter's approach to storytelling doesn't appeal to me.

[DisneyFan09]

Yes. But I like to think Tiana being such a strong character and the phenomenal voice acting were examples that M&C were involved to a small extent.

That's also Lasseter's opinion! In a promotional featurette he praised her strenght and claimed that being the reason why the movie was different, haha! I know this is irrelevant, btw, but I couldn't resist

That was Treasure Planet to Me. The colonial times theme mixed with the space theme looked really awkward and was horrible, blended together. Top of that, John Silver's arc is very confusing and Jim is a very forgettable character.

The 70/30-rule never bothered me, though. It's odd indeed, but I never found it distracting. Silver's arc was somewhat muddled at first, but at least he's a complex antagonist. And yeah, Jim was indeed horribly bland and forgettable.

I don't have time to get into detail so let's just say that Lasseter's approach to storytelling doesn't appeal to me.

Me neither. It worked well on "Toy Story", "A Bugs Life", "Finding Nemo" and actually "Cars", but not on his other films. It's not bad, it's just worn-out.

[Disney's Divinity]

That was Treasure Planet to Me. The colonial times theme mixed with the space theme looked really awkward and was horrible, blended together. Top of that, John Silver's arc is very confusing and Jim is a very forgettable character.

TP is certainly their worst film, but I have to completely disagree with the last two parts. Jim Hawkins is one of my favorite male protagonists and John Silver's arc isn't confusing at all...? The Bowler Hat Guy was probably better as a villain who isn't 100% a villain, but I thought John Silver was more three-dimensional than you'd expect from most antagonists. What was wrong with TP for me was the really awful humor, loud sidekicks which had long went out of trend, and the hideous 3D integration (the whales scene...jeez; although Silver's cyborg half looks great). One could also make a case for the music being a very odd choice for a Disney film, even if I liked the two songs in TP. Overall, the focus on a male demo is also to blame; that's what sank several films in the early 00's.

If you don't mind me asking, what's wrong with Lasseter's creativity?

"Creativity"? Do you mean recycling the same story format repeatedly? There are arguably other things he's done with his films that are creative, but that's not one of them.

[DisneyFan09]

TP is certainly their worst film, but I have to completely disagree with the last two parts. Jim Hawkins is one of my favorite male protagonists and John Silver's arc isn't confusing at all...? The Bowler Hat Guy was probably better as a villain who isn't 100% a villain, but I thought John Silver was more three-dimensional than you'd expect from most antagonists. What was wrong with TP for me was the really awful humor, loud sidekicks which had long went out of trend, and the hideous 3D integration (the whales scene...jeez; although Silver's cyborg half looks great). One could also make a case for the music being a very odd choice for a Disney film, even if I liked the two songs in TP. Overall, the focus on a male demo is also to blame; that's what sank several films in the early 00's.

I considered "Treasure Planet" to be fine, but quite forgettable when I saw it initially. Since then, it has grown on me. While the film lacks the wit and clever humor that made Ron and John's film, it has enough heart, great visuals and score. While the story starts out somewhat slowly, it expands and improves throughout the movie and actually becomes both engaging, clever and exciting. Yeah, the 3D integration was somewhat clunky. The songs are fine, apparently a part of the current trend. I find "Treasure Planet" to be an improvement over the overrated "Lilo & Stitch" and "Brother Bear".

And yeah, the shift to male demograhpic was obviously more hampering than helping. Which is a pity, since both "Atlantis" and "Treasure Planet" are good on it's own merits. At least "TP" felt more classically Disney in tone.

[2Disney4Ever]

I did like Treasure Planet back when it came out, but ever since I watched Princess and the Frog I've found that movie to be even better. However, neither movie is able to top Aladdin as my absolute favorite Disney movie (not even The Little Mermaid can).

One reason I like Treasure Planet though is because with all the CGI integration they were doing with the 3D sets and stuff, they were smart enough to know creatively that the entire movie doesn't have to be done that way, so the CGI did not take the place of the need for hand-drawn characters and animation. Even though they were experimenting with CGI on Silver, they knew that he didn't need to be an entirely computer animated character. He was still hand-drawn flesh merged with CGI cyborg parts, because as far as they were concerned the only parts of him that should have to be CGI are the mechanical ones. Also, B.E.N. was entirely CGI only because he was a robot and not human, and was 2D-shaded like The Iron Giant to fit in with the other characters.

All of today's Disney movies like Frozen on the other hand are being entirely computer animated just for the sake of being so and not because they need to be, and only out of the unfair belief that hand-drawn animation can't be good anymore. The difference with Treasure Planet is that, like Silver's cyborg parts, CGI was used as an enhancement for hand-drawn and not a replacement.

[DisneyFan09]

I did like Treasure Planet back when it came out, but ever since I watched Princess and the Frog I've found that movie to be even better. However, neither movie is able to top Aladdin as my absolute favorite Disney movie (not even The Little Mermaid can).

Agreed that "Aladdin" is superior to "TP". Even "Mermaid" is. "Aladdin" is a mixture of adventure and excellent comedy, while "TP" has just action. The comedy was quite weak. "Mermaid" is cute on it's own merits. What are your thoughts on "Mermaid"?

One reason I like Treasure Planet though is because with all the CGI integration they were doing with the 3D sets and stuff, they were smart enough to know creatively that the entire movie doesn't have to be done that way, so the CGI did not take the place of the need for hand-drawn characters and animation. Even though they were experimenting with CGI on Silver, they knew that he didn't need to be an entirely computer animated character. He was still hand-drawn flesh merged with CGI cyborg parts, because as far as they were concerned the only parts of him that should have to be CGI are the mechanical ones. Also, B.E.N. was entirely CGI only because he was a robot and not human, and was 2D-shaded like The Iron Giant to fit in with the other characters.

Still, there was CGI integration in "Aladdin" as well and that was more seamlessly than "Treasure Planet", despite being made a decade earlier. But the worst example is indeed "Hercules", where the Hydra looks out of place. It's funny how Silver was promoted as the first major character to be a blend of CGI and handdrawn. When he was far from the first (Grandmother Willow, anyone?)

[2Disney4Ever]

I did like Treasure Planet back when it came out, but ever since I watched Princess and the Frog I've found that movie to be even better. However, neither movie is able to top Aladdin as my absolute favorite Disney movie (not even The Little Mermaid can).

Agreed that "Aladdin" is superior to "TP". Even "Mermaid" is. "Aladdin" is a mixture of adventure and excellent comedy, while "TP" has just action. The comedy was quite weak. "Mermaid" is cute on it's own merits. What are your thoughts on "Mermaid"?

Well I always leaned more towards Lion King and Aladdin growing up because I found that they appealed to me more as a boy than Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast did. It also didn't help that I only had the former two movies to watch on VHS and not the latter, so I grew up with them more.

[DisneyFan09]

Wel I always leaned more towards Lion King and Aladdin growing up because I found that they appealed to me more as a boy than Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast did. It also didn't help that I only had the former two movies to watch on VHS and not the latter, so I grew up with them more.

Okay. I preferred "Aladdin" and "The Lion King" myself. Not only because they were suited towards my gender (since I'm a guy myself), but I personally found them more appealing and compelling than "Mermaid" and "Beauty". I liked "Mermaid" when I was a kid and saw it a lot, but I never loved it deeply. "Beauty" never appealed to me as a kid, since I found the movie to be tedious, too sophisticated and somewhat dramatically uneven (yes, call me crazy, but that were my thoughts). I grew to like and appreciate "Beauty" afterwards. "Rescuers Down Under" was a favorite of mine. And I did love "Pocahontas", since I found the movie quite appealing, actually. Despite being a "girly" movie.

I guess those films you have in your stripe below are your favorites?

[2Disney4Ever]

I guess those films you have in your stripe below are your favorites?

Some of them, yes, though I appreciate all of Disney's hand-drawn art. I tried to think of which Disney movies I liked the most for a meme on DeviantART: http://tooneguy.deviantart.com/art/My-T ... -468574201

[DisneyFan09]

Okay. Which other Disney films do you like?