Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

[unprincess]

same here, I went the summer MGM Disney opened and this was the one thing I was most excited about seeing and I was not disappointed. It was amazing looking at a real life animation studio, the desks, the drawings all over the place. I remember seeing cel set ups for Oliver and Company one year and another year they were working on Lion King and they had sketches and drawing of the hyenas all over the place. Another year we had an animator working on Hunchback talk and draw Lavern for us and another year it was a guy working on Mulan. Then I went the year after they closed down the animation studio and rehauled the whole thing to have less emphasis on the actual production side of things and more a generic... well I dont even remember what they did, it was so unmemorable, I think there was some interactive area and some other thing where they taught kids to draw Mickey Mouse. It just wasnt the same. I imagine with less emphasis on hand drawn animation in the last decade its barely been really about animation anymore...so no loss here...have no idea what they can do to replace it.

as for the SDCC panel, is that an independent thing or is it actually being endorsed by Disney? if its the later I dont really expect much emphasis on hand-drawn animation but more on how hand-drawn animation is used to prop/improve CGI, basically their attempt to convince us that "we still care for hand drawn!" Probably why its being held at SDCC and not D23 as they know more purist nerd types attend these things instead of the Disney zombies that will eat up anything they spurt out that attend D23.

[Sotiris]

If its the later I don't really expect much emphasis on hand-drawn animation but more on how hand-drawn animation is used to prop/improve CGI, basically their attempt to convince us that "we still care for hand drawn!"

Yeah, I think so too.

Instead of the Disney zombies that will eat up anything they spurt out that attend D23.

[Wonderlicious]

Instead of the Disney zombies that will eat up anything they spurt out that attend D23.

This comment also made me laugh quite a bit. Escapay, if you're reading this, I nominate it for WIST.

[Walter]

Well, this isn't helping anything

Hollywood Studios: Magic of Disney Animation closing next month

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/a ... -post.html

Not surprising, since since the demo on animation has no repeat value, and kind of annoying towards the end of it. I do wish I would have seen it in its heyday.

Though, I do wonder about Animation Academy, which is the only reason to return to that part of the park. I find it a lot better than the one at DisneyQuest, since you have more of a variety of characters to draw, and included in the park admission.

[2Disney4Ever]

They were idiots for shutting down their Florida 2D animation division in the first place. Something they thought they should have been doing because

"2D ANIMATION IS DEAD, DUUURRR!!!"

when those reckless actions pretty much crippled Disney of all the various outlets that were once at their disposal for producing their hand-drawn films. Fools...

I too still have my fond memories of being inside the Florida studio back in 1997, around the time that Mulan (the first of Disney's hand-drawn films that was produced entirely in Florida) was finishing it's production. What a magical time that was when you could go to Disney World and still be able to watch talented 2D Disney animators at work on animated films. REAL Disney animated films.

[DisneyJedi]

I get that Disney wants to reboot Hollywood Studios , but this aggravates me senseless not only because I have a few nice memories of that place (such as seeing the work for Tarzan as it was wrapping up work, drawing various characters and even meeting Bolt during my Fall College Program, during which he was more hit and miss, btw), but it feels like Disney's giving its park heritage and what makes it great the one-finger salute.

[unprincess]

^Disney's been wrecking their park history for years now, its almost as bad as what theyve done to their 2d animation history. Epcot has especially gotten it really bad. I still wont ever forgive them for removing World of Motion and Horizons, messing up Journey Into Imagination and I although I like Frozen I dont wanna think about what they are probably gonna do to the Norway pavilion...

what angers me so much about them removing the Florida animation studio is that they could have kept it as their sole traditional studio and used it as the place to continue honoring their 2d history by making all their hand drawn films there. Sure the smaller facility and work force probably meant it'd be every 5 to 6 years since we'd see a new traditional film but I and many other 2d fans would have been okay with that. As long as they were continuing the tradition. But no, Disney is such a black or white company when it comes to their business practices. Its just like the with the whole X-Men fiasco. They don't own the film rights so instead of profiting from the part of the franchise they do own (animation, merchandise, games) theyd rather completely bury it and remove any sign of its existence, and ruin/marginalize the characters in the comics... and its the fans who suffer.

[2Disney4Ever]

and I although I like Frozen I dont wanna think about what they are probably gonna do to the Norway pavilion...

Yeah, I don't want to think about that either. I've only been to Disney World once in my lifetime, but the way Disney is today I don't feel that I can step foot in their parks again for quite some time. Not if I'm going to have to run into Rapunzel, Anna, Elsa, and other new CG characters wherever I walk and feel like wanting to deck them in the schnoz.

I'm so glad my time at Disney World was spent during an era where the Disney studio was not yet corrupted and consumed by CGI, and the only CG movie that even existed in the parks was Pixar's Toy Story (while Disney celebrated the release of Hercules).

[TheSequelOfDisney]

2Disney4Ever, wallowing in such negativity can't be good for your mental health, especially if this 2D vs 3D business is on your mind a lot (as it appears to be). If you can learn anything from the two-dimensional Disney films you love so much, it's that positivity, even in the darkest of times, will pull you through. Simply because Disney isn't producing any two-dimensional films at the moment, that doesn't mean you can't focus on all of the wonderful films or shorts that were produced in the past. Getting angry solves nothing.

I understand that you do have some sort of mental health issues, and I don't hold that against you at all. But, you have to understand that it can be frustrating for some of us to constantly see your posts revolve around this single issue. Perhaps it might be helpful to pull back and take a break from the forum.

As an old-timer here (I'm nearing on ten years), I've seen a lot of things on the forum. I urge you to see our perspective on this. I understand your stance, but perhaps you don't seen ours. I'm not belittling you in any manner; I'm simply asking that you reevaluate how your actions can come off on this forum.

[2Disney4Ever]

2Disney4Ever, wallowing in such negativity can't be good for your mental health, especially if this 2D vs 3D business is on your mind a lot (as it appears to be). If you can learn anything from the two-dimensional Disney films you love so much, it's that positivity, even in the darkest of times, will pull you through. Simply because Disney isn't producing any two-dimensional films at the moment, that doesn't mean you can't focus on all of the wonderful films or shorts that were produced in the past. Getting angry solves nothing.

I understand that you do have some sort of mental health issues, and I don't hold that against you at all. But, you have to understand that it can be frustrating for some of us to constantly see your posts revolve around this single issue. Perhaps it might be helpful to pull back and take a break from the forum.

As an old-timer here (I'm nearing on ten years), I've seen a lot of things on the forum. I urge you to see our perspective on this. I understand your stance, but perhaps you don't seen ours. I'm not belittling you in any manner; I'm simply asking that you reevaluate how your actions can come off on this forum.

Well you know, Disney is always on my mind a lot, cause they've always been one of the biggest aspects of my life growing up who gave me my love for (2D) animation. And you should know how hard it is not to be thinking about how they are today when no matter how low I believe they've fallen, they're still a huge entertainment giant with an unshakable presence and their current work is going to be seen around you no matter what.

Blame them and the way they're running animation now for giving me my negativity. I don't think I even had the internet back in 2005, and yet I was still aware of the news that Disney was throwing away the art of hand-drawn animation. I hated it then, and I'm still hating it today.

[Wonderlicious]

2Disney4Ever, wallowing in such negativity can't be good for your mental health, especially if this 2D vs 3D business is on your mind a lot (as it appears to be). If you can learn anything from the two-dimensional Disney films you love so much, it's that positivity, even in the darkest of times, will pull you through. Simply because Disney isn't producing any two-dimensional films at the moment, that doesn't mean you can't focus on all of the wonderful films or shorts that were produced in the past. Getting angry solves nothing.

I understand that you do have some sort of mental health issues, and I don't hold that against you at all. But, you have to understand that it can be frustrating for some of us to constantly see your posts revolve around this single issue. Perhaps it might be helpful to pull back and take a break from the forum.

As an old-timer here (I'm nearing on ten years), I've seen a lot of things on the forum. I urge you to see our perspective on this. I understand your stance, but perhaps you don't seen ours. I'm not belittling you in any manner; I'm simply asking that you reevaluate how your actions can come off on this forum.

Well you know, Disney is always on my mind a lot, cause they've always been one of the biggest aspects of my life growing up who gave me my love for (2D) animation. And you should know how hard it is not to be thinking about how they are today when no matter how low I believe they've fallen, they're still a huge entertainment giant with an unshakable presence and their current work is going to be seen around you no matter what.

Yes, but here's the thing. I can't necessarily speak for TheSequelOfDisney, but I'm sure he may agree with me on what I'm about to say. I love Disney very much and probably always will, and indeed, I think about their films a lot. I've also had some depression (not to do with Disney), and I've had to take steps to address it, and one of the things I've learnt is to look at the root cause of the depression or sadness within a much wider context. However, I also think that there are far more pressing matters in the world than an animation studio going from one style to another. If anything, the worst human cost of the changeover is that some people lost their jobs and had to find a new one, but a similar thing might happen if Disney completely returned to hand-drawn animation despite having a huge team of computer animators.

Now I would love to see a proper 2D animated film from Disney again, really I would. I'm an amateur artist and love the idea of real drawings coming to life. Yet all in all, I realise that there are far greater problems in my own life AND in the world. In my own life, I have things like work, future plans and relationships and other things that take up my time. Despite my busyness and day-to-day anxieties, however, I know that I have quite a good life. I turn on the news and frequently hear stories about war, terrorism, earthquakes, plane crashes, crime and countless other awful things. Disney films, with all their escapism and through my own childhood nostalgia attached to them, are things I don't want to associate with negative emotions and frustration at what isn't being done today. I've long realised that, realistically, I can't do anything to personally change the opinions of executives of Disney, nor can I change the viewing habits of people in America or in Britain. It's not negative thinking or being apathetic; it's just being perfectly realistic. As I've said, I would be the first in line to see a new 2D film if they were ever to make another one, but I'm happy in the knowledge that I could happily re-watch many of my favourite Disney classics far more than I could most films, even if I know their plots inside out.

It may be hard to be self-critical, but when your negativity gets to the point where you can't stop yourself from ranting or talking about Ariel drowning/strangling Rapunzel just because she's a 3D character as though it's a hilarious joke (it's not funny, and it's quite uncomfortable), I think it may be time for you to maybe take a few steps back and think about whether your behaviour is really justifiable and whether you might need some professional help. But above all, a bit of self-control could really do you good.

[2Disney4Ever]

Hey, I can know when there are issues in life that should be considered more serious and important than what's being done in animation/entertainment. This whole year in fact, I've been going through massive changes in my personal life of getting a new legal guardian and having to get ready to move into a new apartment because my mother who I was living with had a stroke in her brain and ended up in the hospital. Now she's in the nursing home, and thankfully she's made tremendous improvements since then, but for all I know she might not be able to ever leave that nursing home. Off-topic, I know, but I can assure you there's been more on my mind lately than just what's going on with Disney.

However, I also think the idea of a valuable art form like hand-drawn animation being pushed to near extinction as an art form when there's never been anything wrong with it should not be considered a trivial thing either. As far as the animation industry side of life goes, it's a serious matter that should be taken seriously.

[Sotiris]

Andreas Deja talks about 2D animation, explains why Disney shouldn't have abandoned the medium, and recalls his last day at the studio.

Q: You were once quoted as saying “If you take the drawing out of Disney, it just isn’t Disney”. I think this quote came around the change of 2D animation into 3D and going into CG animation and that was a big part of what ultimately led to you leaving the studio too. I’m interested in your views on 2D vs 3D. I know you’re a passionate person about 2D animation. Where does that come from and why is that so important to you?

Andreas Deja: Well, you work so hard for so many years and decades shaping your craft and developing that kind of a technique to express yourself artistically and I think that kind of art form, the type of drawn animation, is the history of Disney. That’s what Walt Disney did for all his years, refining it. Not to say he probably wouldn’t have done CG had he lived long enough, I’m sure he would have but the thing about… Actually, I had this argument with somebody in management who told me: “Now, Andreas! Walt Disney was an innovator and he always stepped forward and did color, he was the first in color, the first in sound, then he did live-action, he went from doing short films to feature films so he always kept going so he would have embraced CG”. I said: “But! You’re forgetting something; he never left behind what he had been doing. He pretty much all his life still did shorts. He was adding to it. When he was doing live-action, he didn’t give up animation. He was adding to his portfolio”. And I said: “I can see all the other studios folding in terms of 2D animation but if there’s one studio on this planet which I think should and can afford to do both is probably this studio”. They didn’t listen. In the end, I saw it coming. I saw where the love was going. I just said: “Well, let me finish Winnie the Pooh. I have a bunch of Tigger stuff left, like about half a year and then I’m going away”. […]

There was one awkward moment, I won’t mention names here, but it really was my last day and two of the top top guys of the Disney management happened to walk right behind me and they had not talked to me about leaving Disney. No “good luck” or “thank you for your hard work”. There had been nothing but silence. They did go as far as opening the glass door for me. Nothing was said. I was out the door and that was it.

Source: http://taughtbyapro.com/podcast-22-the- ... -projects/

[Semaj]

That's messed up.

[disneyprincess11]

There was one awkward moment, I won’t mention names here, but it really was my last day and two of the top top guys of the Disney management happened to walk right behind me and they had not talked to me about leaving Disney. No “good luck” or “thank you for your hard work”. There had been nothing but silence. They did go as far as opening the glass door for me. Nothing was said. I was out the door and that was it.

Source: http://taughtbyapro.com/podcast-22-the- ... -projects/[/quote]

So awful. This, pretty much, sums up what the executives think of 2D animation. You can tell how much they wanted to get rid of it ASAP

[Tristy]

Wow. Just wow. Deja really should have owned them there. Unfortunately the big fat checkbooks talked a little louder.

This is something I also have to say. People have been criticizing Disney regarding that audiences just weren't interested in 2D animation "because of the story." Well, I find that pretty funny now. Considering the amounts of Ice Age films and some other 3D animated films that have hit big that weren't Pixar or (for the most part) Dreamworks, it's pretty difficult to believe that.

I watched Song of the Sea and to me that felt like an early Disney animated film even what they are producing these days. And it's kind of sad to think that there are good many people here in the US who haven't heard of it because you know something? It doesn't have pop-cultural references, it doesn't have toilet humor and it perhaps has some of the most unique animation that to me was more beautiful then anything made by Blue Sky, Dreamworks and (Yes. I'm going to say it.) Pixar.

[estefan]

I think the biggest example of how the "audience stopped caring about 2D" excuse is absurd is the reception to Disney's 2002 output. Lilo & Stitch was very successful in the summer and then Treasure Planet (the movie that killed hand-drawn animation at Disney) bombed just a couple of months later. Yes, audiences can occasionally be fickle, but did they just suddenly lose interest in hand-drawn over the span of a few months? No, of course not.

To me, it mainly comes down to marketing. Lilo & Stitch was brilliantly marketed, with some excellent trailers showing the humour of the piece, that unforgettable campaign with Stitch being inserted into popular Disney movies and it made the film look very fresh. Treasure Planet's marketing was a lot more underwhelming and didn't really delve too much into the characters and to the average viewer seemed like Disney pandering to the "hip crowd." That it looked in the same vein as Atlantis and Titan AE, which also tanked with viewers, didn't really help matters.

[Sotiris]

I'll bet you anything that those two "top top guys of the Disney management" were Lasseter and Catmull.

[jazzflower92]

I'll bet you anything that those two "top top guys of the Disney management" were Lasseter and Catmull.

Huh, I don't think anyone has any evidence it was them.

[Sotiris]

Huh, I don't think anyone has any evidence it was them.

No, there's no evidence; it's just an educated guess on my part. When Andreas was asked to tell who those two were, he laughed and said "You would love that, wouldn't you?". Also, the way he stressed "top top" management is telling. The fact there were two executives together is also suspicious because at the time Lasseter and Catmull came and went to the studio together. Also, during that time, there weren't any other top management people that Andreas would know well enough to feel saddened and disappointed by their behavior. Add all of these to the fact that Lasseter and Catmull are major hypocrites who pretend to be friends with the creatives only to stab them in the back when it suits them, there's no doubt in my mind they were the two management people Andreas was talking about.