Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

[Disney's Divinity]

Tangled was a vast hit though, so doubt it would flop, as they obviously know how to make a brilliant film.

Money has absolutely nothing to do with quality, as so many people made a point of bringing up when voicing their dislike of Frozen. I've already explained my opinion above and anyone who is irritated by it is just in disagreement which naturally isn't going to alter my opinion at all; I personally find Tangled to be bland, cold and banal, Bolt is only slightly above it, and it's not like I only conveniently felt this way when the Menken topic came up. I definitely have no interest in anything else these directors are doing.

[Old Fish Tale]

I've already explained my opinion above and anyone who is irritated by it is just in disagreement which naturally isn't going to alter my opinion at all; I personally find Tangled to be bland, cold and banal, Bolt is only slightly above it, and it's not like I only conveniently felt this way when the Menken topic came up. I definitely have no interest in anything else these directors are doing.

I never read your review of that film (but I knew you didn't like it). Could you give me a link, please?

[PatrickvD]

THIS is why Howard Ashman is still so sorely missed. Not just because he was a superior lyricist and storyteller, but because he didn't take shit from people. When the directors of Beauty and the Beast told him they weren't going to run with his idea of opening the movie with the beast as a human boy, revealing his backstory, he absolutely ripped them to shreds. He knew what was right from a musical/storytelling perspective and he was willing to fight for it.

Menken and Slater were too afraid to get pushed aside if they spoke up so they just went with it. Schwartz surely didn't put up with this bullshit so I say good for him for exiting the project.

The thing is, the musicians are storytellers too. And you can't just ask them 'please incorporate a song here, here and here". Have they ALL forgotten how Mermaid, Beauty and Aladdin came to be? I would even dare say the musicians are equal to the directors in this sense.

Frozen suffered from this same mentality. There's a reason it's so top heavy in terms of music. Because the directors have a huge lack of knowledge of the basic structure of musicals. And even when they have top notch talent at their disposal their ego just gets in the way. Probably because the process of writing/composing music is the one thing they cannot control. And this is also why Lasseter's "director driven" concept does not apply to Disney animated musicals. It may work for PIXAR, but not for WDAS.

And they should know better. They all need to sit down and look at how Beauty, Mermaid and Aladdin came to be and what made them work so well. I find it difficult to believe they can't deconstruct this and re-apply it to the studio in its current state. Even with Ashman no longer among us.

They deserve a huge face palm for this.

[disneyprincess11]

Yes, Ashman is sorely missed. We lost that guy way too soon :'( I remember watching WSB and hearing Ashman would fight for what he believed in. Only 50 years old.

[Old Fish Tale]

Frozen suffered from this same mentality. There's a reason it's so top heavy in terms of music. Because the directors have a huge lack of knowledge of the basic structure of musicals. And even when they have top notch talent at their disposal their ego just gets in the way.

Truer words have never been written!

[Disney's Divinity]

I would agree that Frozen's directors clearly don't understand what it takes to make a musical; I'd say we haven't had a real Disney musical since Hercules. Everything from then on have just been movies with songs, not so much musicals, imo (although TP&TF attempts the latter more than some of the others...). Regardless, the Frozen directors at least didn't seem as if they were outright resentful of the music having to be present at all, and they clearly weren't nearly as restrictive of the songwriters considering how essentially theatrical songs like "Let It Go," "First Time in Forever," and its reprise are allowed to be so; compare to "Mother Knows Best" where they cut out several of the best lines, as if the directors could barely bear the song.

@OFT: I couldn't tell you where my original post is. It's somewhere buried in Tangled's 500 threads. I remember seeing it in theaters twice--once with a free ticket, and then I paid twice just to make sure how I really felt about the movie. It's hard for me to make an overall judgment on the first watch.

[Prince Kido]

Sorry Sotiris, but I have a problem with your initial post regarding the interview of Glenn Slater because it looks like you are turning it in something negative while when you listen to it, it is not!!
In the interview, Glenn says VERY CLEARLY, that he agreed that "I See the Light" was perfect just as it was. He did want to write more lyrics, but when he saw the simple version with the lanterns, he loved it. It's his favorite memory from the movie.
The directors are really not to blame because whatever you all think about the movie, Tangled did a solid 590$ M worldwide, making it the 2sd best Disney animated feature of all time after the Lion King, until Frozen.
Saying that the directors have no knowledge of musicals is so unfair : I know Byron Howard and he is a musician! He saw more than 150 musicals in LA, NYC and London and he was hired to make Tangled because he knows musicals!
Him and Nathan Greno are also great storytellers and wait to see their respective films in the future.
Both directors wanted Menken to do the songs and score on Tangled BUT Disney was not so confident about doing again another full musical after Princess and the Frog tanked the US box-office! So, this is the decision of Disney to not make Tangled a "full musical", not the directors!!

[Warm Regards]

THIS is why Howard Ashman is still so sorely missed. Not just because he was a superior lyricist and storyteller, but because he didn't take shit from people. When the directors of Beauty and the Beast told him they weren't going to run with his idea of opening the movie with the beast as a human boy, revealing his backstory, he absolutely ripped them to shreds. He knew what was right from a musical/storytelling perspective and he was willing to fight for it.

People are afraid to fight for their vision because they know that people in the animation industry can easily be replaced, or at least have their reputation incredibly wounded as being "rigid" or "not a game player". Dunno if this applies as easily to the composers/ producers/ directors/ etc, but from the past few years of witnessing Pixar and Disney's actions alone, I'd say it does.

[Disney's Divinity]

Let's just be glad Menken has taken this without being overly vocal, otherwise we'd have another Brenda Chapman situation where the company basically lights her on fire and labels her every negative thing they can (and then everyone here continues to do the same thing).

[DisneyAnimation88]

Let's just be glad Menken has taken this without being overly vocal, otherwise we'd have another Brenda Chapman situation where the company basically lights her on fire and labels her every negative thing they can (and then everyone here continues to do the same thing).

What did Disney label her?

[Atlantica]

Gosh, Patrick, truer words have never been spoken, what a brilliant post. I agree with your sentiments whole-heartedly.

[disneyprincess11]

Let's just be glad Menken has taken this without being overly vocal, otherwise we'd have another Brenda Chapman situation where the company basically lights her on fire and labels her every negative thing they can (and then everyone here continues to do the same thing).

Amen.

[DisneyDude2010]

I wonder if Disney are still planning a stage version of Tangled?

[Mach Full Force]

I wonder if Disney are still planning a stage version of Tangled?

I think it's been pretty much forgotten by now.

[Atlantica]

Hmmm I wouldn't have thought so, as I think they've gotten quire far with it . . . I would say if Aladdin was a flop it would have been cancelled, but its doing really well, and Menken was really involved with the show. Think thats where Disney may leave him from now on.

Unless they're scrapping every single thing to do with any character other than Anna / Elsa / Olaf ….

[thedisneyspirit]

Hmmm I wouldn't have thought so, as I think they've gotten quire far with it . . . I would say if Aladdin was a flop it would have been cancelled, but its doing really well, and Menken was really involved with the show. Think thats where Disney may leave him from now on.

Unless they're scrapping every single thing to do with any character other than Anna / Elsa / Olaf ….

Wouldn't surprise me. When they see money, they milk it.

[Atlantica]

But thats a shame though as they start to tarnish it (much like the Pirates series).

I'd love to see something still come of this though for sure !

[Lady Cluck]

I wonder if Disney are still planning a stage version of Tangled?

I highly doubt it's a top priority, if a priority at all.

I don't think the songs are good for stage anyway. There's really not much drama that's fit for stage in the plot either. They'd have to rework it a lot. And imagine watching a live actress running around with a bunch of hair for 2.5 hours. Ugh.

Yeah, Tangled is one of the least popular movies in the world right now.

Frozen and Hunchback should be top priority.

[Atlantica]

I don't think the songs are good for stage anyway. There's really not much drama that's fit for stage in the plot either. They'd have to rework it a lot. And imagine watching a live actress running around with a bunch of hair for 2.5 hours. Ugh.

Yeah, Tangled is one of the least popular movies in the world right now.

Frozen and Hunchback should be top priority.

Please just stop; you're a hideous member of this forum, and I dread when a post by you is in a topic that I like to read. There are ways of expressing yourself without coming across so awfully. I never thought I'd use the 'ignore' feature, but I think I may have to in your case.

[Lady Cluck]

Wow A hideous member of the forum? WTF? Just because I have strong opinions you don't agree with doesn't mean you have to get personal. I've given up the personal attacks against other members but apparently some others cannot.