Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

[Warm Regards]

Very awesome kickstarter. I am quite partial to historical drama so this is right up my alley. Animation has the unfortunate flaw of being expensive to produce, so I hope these artists get funded. And I swear that every successful kickstarter makes me formulate ideas I would like to see made. The temptation is so great.

By the by, Andreas Deja on his blog a couple years ago mentioned working on an independent, hand-drawn short called "Mushka". Maybe he'll have more clips for public show soon?

[unprincess]

this is pretty cool. Im thinking of maybe donating. This is likely the future of the hand drawn animated film. I think stuff like this being modestly successful may pave the way for smaller studios/companies to take notice and say there's a market here for this, lets try out something ourselves. I dont neccessarily mean the big ones like Disney/DW et, I mean lieke Netflix, Amazon, smaller indie studios.

that said I have to admit I dont find the animtion or voice acting all that impressive. Looks like one of those Disney DTV knockoffs that were all over the place in the 90's. But thats understandable considering this is a bunch of guys doing it by themselves with a limited budget. I do love the backgrounds atmosphere & matureness of the subject matter.

[Sotiris]

Mark Henn talks about what he does now at Disney. It seems such a waste of his skills and talent.

Q: What was your role with Frozen?

Mark Henn: Well, I was kind of asked to come on board as kind of a mentor/coach/cheerleader for the young animators and artists. I physically would sit in on dailies. We have a computer system here that allows me as their scenes come up on the screen that I can make a drawing on a computer tablet and say "I think this might be a stronger pose" or "this might be a stronger expression." So, I spent my time touching all the scenes and all the characters throughout the film at one point or another and working with the animators to improve the animation by bringing my years of experience as a hand-drawn animator. I did one computer film, so I do have experience with computer-generated animation so I understand a little of where they're coming from and their frustrations. I was there to encourage them and to help them develop and maintain their themes not only with their drawings, but I might just throw out ideas. I was just part of the crew. I was able to make drawings and kick in ideas and to just be a resource for the animators.

Source: http://theindependentcritic.com/an_inte ... _mark_henn

I’m kind of a link to the past, or more specifically, to our heritage in Disney animation, which for 90 years has largely been hand-drawn. I’m bringing my expertise as a traditional animator, and I come alongside and partner with the animation supervisors and head of animation, and I work with the CG animators. A lot of CG animators don’t draw, they aren’t trained draftsmen, and there’s a skill in drawing, a sense of appeal in the poses and expressions that I can help them craft in their scenes. A lot of it has to do with appeal. It’s easy in CG to just move things around, and the computer can make things look very good, very quickly. But there’s an element to what I was taught — and what Walt instilled in his original animators — which was the idea of getting inside the character, and, "What is the character thinking?"

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/movies/meet-the-d ... 64897.html

Currently Henn finds himself in the vital role of teaching not just what he learned from the Nine Old Men generation who made Snow White but from his experience with the Second Golden Age era. “It’s an acting thing. Animators are often described as actors with pencils and now as actors with a computer screen. I’m in the role of being a mentor, taking all the years of my experience, what I do as an artist and work with a CG artist and simply do what we call draw overs. I can do a digital drawing on a tablet.” he shared about passing knowledge to the current generation of men and women animators behind films like Frozen, Big Hero Six and the upcoming Disney Princess feature Moana.

“They can come to me and show me scenes. And I can do, which is what I’ve done my whole career (is) if you’re an animator, you come and bring your scene to my office and sit down and take a piece of paper and say, ‘Well this might be better this way.’ So I’m doing that with the CG artists in the digital world. It’s just a way to take my experience and infuse it to pass it on to a new generation. I essentially do these kind of digital draw overs to make the animation as strong.” he said with the sketch of Snow White completed on the projection on the wall.

Source: http://thatsitla.com/disney-legacy-anim ... ss-legacy/

[disneyprincess11]

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It's not his fault. It's his job

[DisneyAnimation88]

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Seriously, do you even know what you're typing half the time? Did you actually read what he said or understand anything about his situation at Disney? For someone who whines incessantly about the state of hand-drawn animation I'm amazed you would call one of the best animators of his generation a lazy idiot when he is being sidelined and squeezed out of the industry.

[unprincess]

yeah, its not his fault. Im sure last thing he wants is to be drawing over a bunch of CGI wire models all day. The guy needs to eat.

and thank goodness he's there b/c its his & his fellow 2d animators work thats helping Disney CGI animation stand out & appear so much more lively & expressive than the work of other studios.

but Im worried there'll be a day when the cgi guys(or management) get sick of these 2d animators hanging around & decide that they no longer need their input. I can see that happening the more successful their films become.


BTW: if youve read alot of my post youve probably realized by now they tend to be prone to typos. Im aware of it. I have a physical conditon(I wont go into it) that makes me prone to typos in my writing. I do proofread but I dont catch all of them. Sorry.

[PatrickvD]

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What have you done for the art of animation recently?

Nothing but complain about it on this forum. You make these threads unreadable.

I seriously hope a moderator can clean this up. This should not be tolerated.

[Elladorine]

TsWade2- Name-calling is not tolerated here. Consider this a warning.

[TsWade2]

Sorry about that, guys. I won't say any name call ever again. I re read it. so again, sorry about that.

[Sotiris]

Former Disney animator Scott T. Petersen talks about 2D animation; why it fell from grace in the U.S and how it can be brought back.

Q: Traditional animation is in a slump in the US. What would be your formula to revive it again?

Scott T. Petersen: First, I think it’s important to analyze what caused the down turn in the first place. In my opinion the 2D films that Disney and the other studios were putting out from about the time of Emporer’s New Groove and later, (with some exceptions) were not connecting as much with audiences and simply not as appealing in both story and subject matter. And in contrast at the same time Pixar was on the up rise making great films and so executives equated that with an audience rejection of the 2D medium in preference to computer animated films. Well we all know that’s BALONEY, but try and convince a high powered executive of that. It certainly was NOT the 2D medium that audiences didn’t like.

What would be my formula to revive the 2D medium again? I think it would take a pretty awesome movie! It would certainly take a movie that would really capture the worlds attention and imagination in the same way that The Little Mermaid did in 89’. That film had an amazing phenomenal effect on audiences and the reasons why can be debated but it did start a whole new era or revolution for animation if you will. I’m not saying that we should use the same filmic formula as that but it would certainly take a film with similar mass appeal to revive the medium. We all had such great hopes for The Princess and the Frog but it did not have the same effect for reasons that can also be debated.

I do believe that it’s only a matter of time before some visionary comes up with a great concept and one of the studios agrees to back it and if all the right talent and elements are brought together again, Bam!, lightning will strike and all the studios will dog pile, as they always do to scramble to find the best 2D animators available. By then we might all be animating on Cintiques or the like but they say history repeats itself and I’m sure it will here also.

As far as a formula goes, I would say that you have to start with a winning concept or story of course. Next putting all the right talent together is paramount in all the areas. Then I think, keeping the costs down in this case enough so that it has a chance to make a decent profit, or it will be another nail in the 2D coffin. Inflamed budgets are not necessarily essential for a great movie. In fact I’ve noticed in some cases when a director is given unlimited freedom and money that’s sometimes when he messes things up.

Source: http://www.traditionalanimation.com/int ... -petersen/

[estefan]

I love this guy's attitude! I've basically been saying the same things for a long while now and I also like how he says The Princess and the Frog's mild theatrical success is "up for debate", rather than the incredibly subjective reasoning of "oh, it was weak" (which I certainly disagree with, being my favourite of the Lasseter-era Disney pictures).

[TsWade2]

Former Disney animator Scott T. Petersen talks about 2D animation; why it fell from grace in the U.S and how it can be brought back.

Bravo! Much better response than Bob Iger.

[DisneyEra]

Scott T. Petersen: First, I think it’s important to analyze what caused the down turn in the first place. In my opinion the 2D films that Disney and the other studios were putting out from about the time of Emporer’s New Groove and later, (with some exceptions) were not connecting as much with audiences and simply not as appealing in both story and subject matter. And in contrast at the same time Pixar was on the up rise making great films and so executives equated that with an audience rejection of the 2D medium in preference to computer animated films. Well we all know that’s BALONEY, but try and convince a high powered executive of that. It certainly was NOT the 2D medium that audiences didn’t like.

Why was TENG & Atlantis released 6 months apart from each other? Also, neither of these films bombed. Domestically TENG $89mil & Atlantis $84mil. That's pretty much on par with the post Pocahontas films: THoND $100mil & Hercules $99mil. But that should of changed with 2002's Lilo & Stitch $145mil domestic! Only Aladdin, TLK & Tarzan had a higher domestic gross. B&tB made about $100,000 more than Stitch in it's original domestic run. SO why did Disney Animation release Treasure Planet 6 months after Stitch? TP didn't nearly have the same kind of marketing that Stitch got in early 2002. The only ads I remember for TP were the ones on Disney Channel that ended with B.E.N. the robot break dancing. TP has a November 27 release date & does only $38mil domestic Why didn't Disney do something about that? All future 2D films should have ceced after TPs boxoffice failure. They should of went back to the drawing board. That was the warning sign, & they pissed it off. They release Brother Bear 11 months later & it does basically what TENG & Atlantis did, $85mil domestic. Then 5 months later in April 2004, Home on the Range is released & it does $50 mil. 2D Animation was dead at the studio with that 2nd boxoffice failure & Chicken Litte, the company's first CGI animated feature released a year & a half later was a critical disaster & the the studio's rep was damaged for the rest of the decade. Production on both Both TP & HotR should have been stopped after Treasure Planet's failure. Clearly something was wrong but nothing was done. Instead Disney Animation tried to copy Dreamworks with CL instead of going back the the drawing board & trying to save the legacy of 2D animation. I personally consider THIS era worse than the Dark Ages If anyone has any more info on Disney's lack of responsibility after Treasure Panet & moving forward with HotR please post. I also believe that Disney's purchase of Pixar was seen as a replacment for Disney Animation. To them, why bother fixing the mess that was Disney Animation when Pixar can easily replace it. Can you imagine if John Lasseter had that same kind of mentality? WDAS would have shut down & Disney wouldn't care less.

[Warm Regards]

It is guys like Mr. Petersen that makes me love animation. Maybe I can be the one to give an awesome idea. (I kid, I kid. )

Question: when he says this:
I’m not saying that we should use the same filmic formula as that but it would certainly take a film with similar mass appeal to revive the medium.

...is he referring to the Disney musical formula?

If so, I kinda agree. Like, why not make a fairy tale film that wasn't a musical? (I define musical by having the majority of it's songs be plot moving.) I'm not sure where movies like Snow White and Cinderella fall into this, however...

If anyone has any more info on Disney's lack of responsibility after Treasure Panet & moving forward with HotR please post.

In regards to poor marketing, I recall reading an article mentioning how Home on the Range was initially going to get McDonalds toys, but the deal got pulled because the villain was hinted as taking the cows to a slaughter house.

Was "Home on the Range" deliberately under-promoted?

Jim:

"Home on the Range" is a motion picture that stars heroic cows. Hamburger, as you know, is made up of ground beef. Which -- of course -- comes from cattle. Both male cattle (bull) and female cattle (cow).

McDonalds nixed our idea of doing "Home on the Range" Happy Meals because they were concerned that kids -- as they were playing with their Maggie the Cow toy -- might suddenly realize that beef comes from cows, and then refuse to eat their hamburgers.

Yes, it was a disappointment when they opted not to do HOTR Happy Meals. And -- as for why we didn't approach any other fast food chain to do a "Home on the Range" promotion -- we have a long term, exclusive deal with McDonalds that prevents us from approaching any other restaurant chains.
...
Still other folks who work at WDFA aren't quite as convinced. "They missed so many obvious opportunities to promote this picture, " said E . Xcutive. "And Disney's marketing staff has been publicizing our feature length cartoons for decades now. So those guys obviously know how to do their jobs. And yet they suddenly bobble the campaign for 'Home on the Range' ... and we're just supposed to think that that's a co-incidence."

"It's clear to me that the upper levels of Disney management didn't really want 'Home on the Range' to be all that big a success. Not a flop, either. Just a medium-sized success. Something that 'Chicken Little' would have no trouble topping," E. Xcutive said in conclusion. "Again, I think it's sad that this picture didn't get the sort of promotion that it needed, the kind of marketing that it deserved ... all because of someone's agenda in the Team Disney building."

It's kind of interesting to get both sides on this issue, don't you think?

[DisneyEra]

That is just sad. WDFA spends $110mil budget on heroic cows? How did this even get off the drawing board if every one at the company was not ALL on the same page? So to put this in other words: There was no leadership at WDFA 10 years ago. Just unexceptable

[Semaj]

I seem to recall an article back in the day shouldering a lot of weight on Lilo & Stitch, in regards to the future of hand-drawn animation. Whatever relief that could've brought at the time was obviously squashed with Treasure Planet, which it sounds like suffered from poor marketing rather than the film itself. It also didn't help that Columbia's Eight Crazy Nights, which came out the same time as Treasure Planet, did even worse business, and only added ammunition to the "2D is dead" claim.

Disney's attitude towards Home on the Range can be explained by its unusual release date. It came out in time for spring break of 2004, but Disney typically releases their animated films either at the start of summer, or during the holiday season. Despite the studio's past release dates for their classic films, April appears more arbitrary in a contemporary sense.

Not to mention, it was only 5 months following Brother Bear, where that film started on a Saturday.

[estefan]

According to Floyd Norman and a number of other people who worked on Home on the Range, there was a lot of studio interference on that project and the final film wasn't really close to what the directors had intended for the movie. I don't think there are a lot of folks at Disney who were very pleased with how the movie came out in the end.

I always found it ridiculous that management assumed that because one movie that tanked, about six months after a hand-drawn film was a success (and one they continue to exploit to this day), that audiences took a dislike to the medium. I'm pretty sure the general audience doesn't turn that quickly on a type of movie.

[disneyprincess11]

And like I said recently: If Frozen was hand drawn like planned, you can bet on 2D being 100% back. This should had been the last guinea pig. What makes this frustrating is that with the choice of 2D being gone at Disney, they never took the stories and the release dates in stride. BOOM, it's all 2D's fault.

I can picture it like:

John Lassenter: "Hey, it's not like we put PATF and Winnie the Pooh before/on the week one of the most high-grossing movies and the final movie of a beloved, epic saga or anything. And it's not like we made the first, official black Disney Princess a frog and offended black people everywhere, and made a movie about a classic Disney character, who is especially attracted by little kids, go on the big screen, instead of a straight-to-DVD..."
Bob Iger: "Nah, it's clearly the hand drawn animation. Kids want to see cool, hip idiotic 3D movies like Alvin and the Chipmunks. Oh, by the way, people are attracted to movies that have funny, stupid titles and trailers..."

[Tristy]

And like I said recently: If Frozen was hand drawn like planned, you can bet on 2D being 100% back. This should had been the last guinea pig. What makes this frustrating is that with the choice of 2D being gone at Disney, they never took the stories and the release dates in stride. BOOM, it's all 2D's fault.

I can picture it like:

John Lassenter: "Hey, it's not like we put PATF and Winnie the Pooh before/on the week one of the most high-grossing movies and the final movie of a beloved, epic saga or anything. And it's not like we made the first, official black Disney Princess a frog and offended black people everywhere, and made a movie about a classic Disney character, who is especially attracted by little kids, go on the big screen, instead of a straight-to-DVD..."
Bob Iger: "Nah, it's clearly the hand drawn animation. Kids want to see cool, hip idiotic 3D movies like Alvin and the Chipmunks. Oh, by the way, people are attracted to movies that have funny, stupid titles and trailers..."

[disneyprincess11]

And with Disney Animation having the world back in its hands, they really need to do 2D animation NOW before the people go back to Dreamworks and Pixar.

And it's not too late to make Giants 2D!