Why do people hate Princess and the Frog so much?

[estefan]

I really like the style of Newman's work, even outside of his film work, so maybe the Frog soundtrack fell completely into my musical taste and that's why I love them. I do think they're all memorable, fun and are important to the various characters and setting the right mood for the movie.

In regards to whether his songs are "Disney-esque", I feel Newman's work is more reminiscent of songs the Sherman Brothers would have written, particularly their work in The Jungle Book (I'm thinking, specifically, of songs like "I Wanna Be Like You" and "Trust in Me"). Somebody earlier mentioned The Jungle Book and yeah, there is a certain Jungle Book vibe thrown into the Disney Princess movie. But, considering, Jungle Book is one of my top 10 favourite Disney animated films, I have no problem with that. I think the swamp section has the necessary amount of magic and while I know the "Gonna Take You There" scene gets a lot of flack, I think it's important in showing the majesty of the swamp and showcasing the fun, friendly nature of Ray. I remember just being absolutely awed when I saw the fireflies lighting up the swamp in theatres.

[Disney's Divinity]

I love "When Will My Life Begin" and find it Disneyesque! It doesn't stink at all! I wonder why people don't like it.

I think it stinks because some of the lyrics by Glenn Slater could've been better and the song could've gone somewhere grand and beautiful like how Part of that World, Belle reprise, and Just Around the Riverbend. But the pop/gituar sound kind of feels like it's missing that touch that Alan was so great with in the past.

I personally don't think 3D and live-action lend themselves as well to musicals quite as much as 2D animation, which can hide exaggeration more easily and make dramatic poses more organic. Which is why I find most of Rapunzel's and Gothel's movements throughout their songs hokey.

It doesn't help that "WWMLB?" isn't as interesting as an "I Want" song can be, as you said.

[Goliath]

I agree with Disney Duster: 'When Will My Life Begin' is a wonderful song, performed perfectly by Mandy Moore. It does a good job of explaining Rapunzel's life and world and her frustrations with being kept inside all the time, while also being full of funny gags. It's not an "I Want"-song in the same vein as 'Part of Your World' etc., but who says it has to be? It works for this film and that's what matters. I watched it again last night for the eight or ninth time and I'm still not bored by it. I always enjoy watching it, especially the interaction between Rapunzel and Flynn, who are two of the best leading characters/couples Disney has ever created, in my opinion. I really don't see how anyone could call her annoying, when she's just a fantastic character.

[Musical Master]

I agree with Disney Duster: 'When Will My Life Begin' is a wonderful song, performed perfectly by Mandy Moore. It does a good job of explaining Rapunzel's life and world and her frustrations with being kept inside all the time, while also being full of funny gags. It's not an "I Want"-song in the same vein as 'Part of Your World' etc., but who says it has to be? It works for this film and that's what matters. I watched it again last night for the eight or ninth time and I'm still not bored by it. I always enjoy watching it, especially the interaction between Rapunzel and Flynn, who are two of the best leading characters/couples Disney has ever created, in my opinion. I really don't see how anyone could call her annoying, when she's just a fantastic character.

Well it serves it's function in the story and Rapunzel's character, what's my issue with it is that the pop/gituar kind of sound to the song really is off putting in a fairy tale world. Under the Sea works with it's calypso sound because the characters are in the ocean and that style of music kind of sounds like it has that beach/sea setting to it that you can make a connection with it, whereas with WWMLB, there is no such connection to the sound of the song or the setting at all. Plus with the songs that Ariel, Belle, and even Pocahontas sing, you get yourself interested in the song because not only better lyrics help, but the style of music fits and connects with the world they are in. That's just how I feel about it.

I think it stinks because some of the lyrics by Glenn Slater could've been better and the song could've gone somewhere grand and beautiful like how Part of that World, Belle reprise, and Just Around the Riverbend. But the pop/gituar sound kind of feels like it's missing that touch that Alan was so great with in the past.

I personally don't think 3D and live-action lend themselves as well to musicals quite as much as 2D animation, which can hide exaggeration more easily and make dramatic poses more organic. Which is why I find most of Rapunzel's and Gothel's movements throughout their songs hokey.

It doesn't help that "WWMLB?" isn't as interesting as an "I Want" song can be, as you said.

I kind of disagree that live action musicals are disconnecting and unorganic (look at Les Mis for example), but I will concure with you on 3-D animation looking hooky. They just need to control the animation a little bit more and so far from the clip of Let it Go, it's gotten a little bit better, but not quite there yet. But were getting there.

[FlyingPiggy]

ANTHROPOMORPHIC FROGS ARE CREEPY

[Super Aurora]

ANTHROPOMORPHIC FROGS ARE CREEPY

So are flying pigs.

[Elladorine]

ANTHROPOMORPHIC FROGS ARE CREEPY

So are flying pigs.

. . . I suppose someone had to say it.

[FlyingPiggy]

So are flying pigs.

. . . I suppose someone had to say it.

Aw, I love Kermit and Miss Piggy!

My username comes from a key chain my friend brought me from Japan.

[Disney Duster]

But the visuals in Tangled are great too! They actually were not trying to go realistic, and tried to make CGI keep the magic of hand-drawn. I prefer the visuals of Tangled to The Princess and the Frog's.

And the guitar sound of "When Will My Life Begin?" perfectly suits the setting because, if you didn't notice, in Rapunzel's world she even has a guitar.

[thelittleursula]

Another thing I love about TPATF is the artistic and creative visuals they produced. This is kind of a hand drawn vs CGI thing though since there's so much pressure to make things appear realistic with CGI :/ I hope they can get over that eventually and go back to creating original, creative art. I'm sure it can translate to CGI.

This is especially evident in the musical numbers though. While they're not the greatest of all time, they're still very beautiful. Almost There and Friends on the Other Side are especially gorgeous and unique, but the other songs have fun, engaging visuals as well. They really enhance the soundtrack for me.








Of course the lanterns were beautiful in Tangled, but I just feel CGI restricts the artists to the "real" world. Imagine "Colors of the Wind" if Pocahontas was CGI. Wouldn't have been nearly as beautiful. Again, I hope they can improve on this because CGI is definitely the norm now.

One of the best posts you've made imo, you are dead right the art in Princess & Frog is amazing.

[Widdi]

The Princess and the frog feels almost like two separate movies for me. I absolutely adore all of the movie that deals with Tiana as a human. When she becomes a frog though... It just doesn't hold my interest anymore. I would have much preferred them to have the Prince turn into a frog, but leave Tiana a human as she tries to figure out how to change him back. If they had of done that I think it would have been a much more loved film.

[rodis]

I for one really love this movie. I think it's fantastic from start to finish. The artistic direction is stunning, the music is generally good, especially "Down In New Orleans", I like the characters, especially Naveen.

I especially love how it was set in Jazz-era New Orleans, it really adds to the atmosphere both visually (I love seeing those iron balconies in the background) and musically.

I also like it better than Tangled.

[GreatGreg]

One of the best posts you've made imo, you are dead right the art in Princess & Frog is amazing.

Yes, the art is amazing, but the story and music were poor.

Also, it has nothing to do with race. Both POCAHONTAS and MULAN had infinitely better storylines and music than PATF did.

[ProfessorRatigan]

Pocahontas? Better in story and character than Princess and the Frog? Sorry. No. Pocahontas is a mess. A very pretty, very fun to look at mess, but still, a mess. The music, I'll grant you. Some of Alan Menken's best. Really, Princess and the Frog only has Facilier's song going for it. Mulan, though, is a film I just don't cotton to. It is, for me, one of my least favorite Disney films. I find everything about it mediocre and dull, from the characters, story, music and songs, on down.

Personally, I find the Princess and the Frog to be a very average, very middling film that tries, but fails, to recapture the wonder and magic of the best films of the Renaissance period. It obviously suffered from a lot of executive meddling due to fear over its 'racial' content (it's easy to understand why given the scrutiny Disney films are subject to regarding this matter) and I think that's why the story is so...muddled and all over the place. That being said, I greatly enjoy the film and its characters and performances and animation, and I don't lay any of the blame at Musker or Clements' feet. All of its problems seem to stem from managerial and corporate meddling. I think, if they had had free-reign, Ron and John could have provided us with a very noble and fine film. As it is, they did their best and gave us a solid, if less than stellar, end product.

I like and enjoy Princess and the Frog a hell of a lot more than I do Tangled nowadays, though. I think time will tell what this film's legacy is going to be. I'm sure a lot of black children will see this film and remember it fondly, if only because they can identity with Tiana, Naveen, Facilier, etc. If nothing else, that's something.

[Big One]

Because animation by default is a different thing from story; it's incomparable.

I'm not comparing the two in the slightest, I'm just treating them the same way as anyone should. Animation is just as important as story in an animated film. If we're going to complain about the lack of innovations in story, it's just as valid to complain about lack of innovations in animation. This whole argument is dumb because even though Princess and the Frog takes more risks than some Disney films, nothing is does is new to the film medium story-wise (or anything-wise). You're acting like Disney actually invents cliches when all Disney ever has done with it's films is depict cliches to appeal to a mass audience. Keep in mind this isn't a problem, hence why this entire argument is stupid in concept.

Tangled in the very least has legit innovative animation techniques. 3D animation is still a very new and evolving medium right now, and it's the first feature film to animate hair like it did using new technology. It at least has that to it's name, when it comes to "originality." But I don't put my cards on originality in film as if I try arguing why certain things are original, you could easily point out things in the past that did it before hand, and the things you point out will also have things that did it before they did. It's a never ending cycle till you go back far in time when cavemen told each other stories, which is impossible to do.

Originality doesn't matter at all, especially to the mass audiences. What matters is quality (to critics) and appeal (to audiences). Tangled has both, Princess and the Frog doesn't.

[thelittleursula]

One of the best posts you've made imo, you are dead right the art in Princess & Frog is amazing.

Yes, the art is amazing, but the story and music were poor.

Also, it has nothing to do with race. Both POCAHONTAS and MULAN had infinitely better storylines and music than PATF did.

Mulan yeah agree ?

Pocahontas nah, disagree. Pocahontas was too flat and dry in places and needed a bit more..... jazz per say.

Princess & Frog doesn't have a fantastic storyline, but imo it beats Pocahontas.

[Lady Cluck]

Yeah, Pocahontas has stunning visuals and great music which elevate the movie as a whole, but the characters and story are flat flat flat. John Smith is extremely dull and drags Pocahontas down with him. She's interesting for the first half of the movie...until she meets him. Tiana and Naveen have MUCH more charisma than Pocahontas and John Smith.

The villain is cheesy, the comic relief animals are average, and the side characters are uninteresting and forgettable. The story is predictable, cliche, and unengaging. By the time the final climax rolls around, you realize you don't care and the stakes aren't that high.

I know people don't care for the side characters in TPATF either, but I'd take them any day of the week over the ones in Pocahontas. They're at least fun. The ones in Pocahontas are just...there.

Disney tried too hard to make a serious prestige film with Pocahontas, and in the process lost all the heart and soul that makes Disney great.

[Big One]

I will agree Pocahontas is one of the weaker Disney films. Pocahontas was basically a movie exclusively made so Disney could win an Oscar for it's music. The story and characters were just flat and boring. Mulan on the other hand is probably one of my favorite Disney films of all time so of course it'll be better than Princess and the Frog in my opinion.

[DisneyJedi]

Personally, I'm a little agitated that when it comes to PatF vs. Tangled discussions, they dismiss the former for having its flaws and yet they praise the supposedly "perfect" Tangled when it really isn't a flawless film either.

[estefan]

I think people are free to find problems in whatever movies they wish, as long as it doesn't resort to ridiculous nitpicking (which I haven't seen in this thread yet).

However, I do think it's important to word your opinions properly. I always try to include words like "I" and "personally", when giving my opinion on something. To not include them, makes myself and others look like we're just stating facts. Saying "I disliked the music in Tangled" sounds very different than "The music in Tangled was bad." One sounds like an opinion, the other sounds like a fact, when the latter is anything but. "Tangled was written by Dan Fogleman" is a fact. "The music in Tangled was bad" is not.

Wow, I just went into English professor mode for a second there. I apologise for the random lesson.