Frozen: Part IV

[Sotiris]

It's not just on Tumblr; it's much bigger than that. It's an entire online block. What bothers me most is when these people target artists at Disney and drag their names through the mud. There were some really hurtful comments towards DiSalvo and he certainly doesn't deserve such a treatment. It also really bothers me when they judge and shame people and label them as misogynists and racists solely because they're Disney fans.

[SWillie!]

While I think that tumblr is definitely the biggest cultprit, you're right that it's bigger than that. And yes, DiSalvo most definitely doesn't deserve this kind of treatment and name calling. His comment was completely harmless, and he's being treated like a monster. It's unfortunate all around. Hurts him personally, hurts Disney's image, hurts others involved with the film by extension, hurts fans of the film by association. All because of a misunderstanding.

[jazzflower92]

At this point I think those on the internet don't care because they will find anything possibly juicy so they can bash Disney as some evil abomination born unto the world. Its kind of sad in a way.

[taei]

This sucks. Ever since this movie was announced, it has gotten nothing but negative feedback from the public.

What are they going to complain about next? Racial Slurs in songs?
The biggest problem is that now, no body can blame Disney if they decide to stop adapting fairytales. And another generation of children will never be able to experience what we all did. I used to always praise the tumblr community because they always seemed to be the smartest of all the social networks. Unfortunately, they sunk so low that I won't even bother defending the movie anymore. I just hope that the employee doesn't get fired for something so stupid. But knowing Disney, he's probably gonna get fired.

And I am sick and tired of people constantly saying that Anna, Elsa, and Rapunzel look the same. They don't look alike and the trailer clearly shows that they look different in motion.

[Jules]

People please help me, as I don't follow any Frozen-centric tumblr blogs.

How big is this Frozen-lacks-people-of-colour controversy thing on tumblr? Are we talking about thousands of (daft) people, or millions? Is this serious enough to possibly put a dent in the film's box-office potential?

[PrincessElsa]

How big is this Frozen-lacks-people-of-colour controversy thing on tumblr? Are we talking about thousands of (daft) people, or millions? Is this serious enough to possibly put a dent in the film's box-office potential?

Thousands at best.

Moreover, the pertinent point is that this isn't Disney's target audience anyway. These people wouldn't be seeing a Disney fairy-tale film regardless. Many of them begin or end their rants with "I hate Disney." That's their conclusion, and they work back from that.

If anything, this might help Frozen. I first became away of the film back when the initial round of POC protest circulated in the media (sometime in June, I think?). I doubt I'd have known anything about it otherwise.

The general public absolutely doesn't care about the peeves of the social-justice armchair warriors. It's a classic case of "silent majority." The same people who flocked to Tangled will flock to this film. And many of the very things that the tumblr crowd considers bugs will, to them, be features.

[Disney's Divinity]

And I am sick and tired of people constantly saying that Anna, Elsa, and Rapunzel look the same. They don't look alike and the trailer clearly shows that they look different in motion.

I don't mind people saying it because it's true. Ariel and Alice wore it better.

[Dragonlion]

I agree and I'd like to add that non-caricatured male leads such as princes are even more difficult to animate and keep on-model and appalling than female ones. That's common knowledge in the industry.

Right. I only wish I had some kind of presence on Tumblr to try and make this argument where it's most needed. Unfortunately once some conspiracy like this gets going on tumblr, it's pretty much just like a wildfire. There's no stopping it, no arguing with it. Because no matter how logical or true your argument may be, you're supporting the 'bad guys'.

And really, it's not those people that can't be argued with that most troubles me, because obviously there's nothing that can be done to change their mind. It's those casual fans that may not follow this stuff day to day, and are much easier swayed wen they log on and see "DISNEY IS SEXIST" and just take it at face value. Jump on the bandwagon without really understanding the facts. I hate to think that something like this - a misunderstanding - is causing people who may not have thought negatively of the studio before to do so now.

I do understand that, I've heard it before. You're right there is a fine line between 'appealing ugly' and unappealing ugly' and it can be difficult for an artist get to the former. And yes, maybe the head of animation is getting more anger than he deserves, but at least he could have worded it better (not that I'm blaming him for it). It's just that I don't think the people who are complaining are completely off base.

DiSalvo most definitely doesn't deserve this kind of treatment and name calling. His comment was completely harmless, and he's being treated like a monster.

I haven't seen anyone insult him in particular, just that line of thinking.

Thousands at best.

Moreover, the pertinent point is that this isn't Disney's target audience anyway. These people wouldn't be seeing a Disney fairy-tale film regardless. Many of them begin or end their rants with "I hate Disney." That's their conclusion, and they work back from that.

I think you're exaggerating a bit. To be honest, I think most people don't really care about all the politics surrounding the film, so I think the movie for the most part is "safe". Also many of the people complaining about Disney don't hate it, in fact that's why they complain about it period. They like Disney and feel that it could be better. I don't think it's fair to say that they all unanimously hate Disney (although who knows, some might...)

[Warm Regards]

In day who-knows of the Tumblr hate, I have read an interesting post that argues Disney is a bit lazy and unoriginal when it comes to designing characters. Though I don't know if comparing stop-motion to CG is necessarily fair.

[taei]

[SWillie!]

In day who-knows of the Tumblr hate, I have read an interesting post that argues Disney is a bit lazy and unoriginal when it comes to designing characters. Though I don't know if comparing stop-motion to CG is necessarily fair.

The problem with posts like this, and there are many, is that what some people are calling "lazy" is actually a carefully sculpted and maintained "house style". Divinity pointed it out - it's been the same since the studio began. Some people hate that, and that's fair. They want variety. But because Disney's house style works (read: makes money), that's what they are going to keep doing. You can only fault them for that so much. It isn't lazy, it's just not risky. There's a difference.

Someone mentioned the "silent majority" - that's the only thing that's keeping me from trying to reply to all these hate posts, knowing that at the end of the day, the vocal minority is only a very small part of the whole, and in a few years this movie will likely be held in the same light that Tangled is now.

[qindarka]

DiSalvo most definitely doesn't deserve this kind of treatment and name calling. His comment was completely harmless, and he's being treated like a monster.

I haven't seen anyone insult him in particular, just that line of thinking.

Oh, how I envy you.

Just recently came across a comment on the TvTropes discussion on Frozen, in which the words lazy, misogynistic and pig were used to describe him, all in the same sentence.

Granted, these sentiments may well be a minority but they do tend to stick in one's mind.

I think you're exaggerating a bit. To be honest, I think most people don't really care about all the politics surrounding the film, so I think the movie for the most part is "safe". Also many of the people complaining about Disney don't hate it, in fact that's why they complain about it period. They like Disney and feel that it could be better. I don't think it's fair to say that they all unanimously hate Disney (although who knows, some might...)

While some of the people complaining identify as Disney fans, I do not believe they are the majority. Wouldn't say they are complaining because they want Disney to be better either, I'm going to be very uncharitable and say they are getting off on the feeling of being progressive and morally superior and that seek out the most innocuous of things in order to further the sense of their own superiority.*

It's certainly the case that WDAS is being singled out. Or more accurately, their princess/fairy tale films are being singled out. There seems to be a dichotomy whereby these sort of films are regarded as having a set of rules on their own and not treated simply as WDAS films. In regards to the issue of race for instance it would be fairer to have a go at Robinsons, Bolt and Ralph for their lack of representation, given that they take place in modern America rather than a story based on and set in Scandinavia which is predominantly white. Yet it's Frozen that gets the flak, mainly due to its placement as a princess film, I believe. As always, I blame the Disney Princess marketing for this or creating this false divide.

*Not to underplay the efforts of genuine social justice advocates, certainly there are plenty of issues in media which are problematic.

[SWillie!]

While some of the people complaining identify as Disney fans, I do not believe they are the majority. Wouldn't say they are complaining because they want Disney to be better either, I'm going to be very uncharitable and say they are getting off on the feeling of being progressive and morally superior and that seek out the most innocuous of things in order to further the sense of their own superiority.*

*Not to underplay the efforts of genuine social justice advocates, certainly there are plenty of issues in media which are problematic.

Yes. Absolutely. Well said. Thank you for confirming I'm not crazy in thinking of them this way.

[Sotiris]

In regards to the issue of race for instance it would be fairer to have a go at Robinsons, Bolt and Ralph for their lack of representation, given that they take place in modern America rather than a story based on and set in Scandinavia which is predominantly white. Yet it's Frozen that gets the flak, mainly due to its placement as a princess film, I believe.

It certainly seems that way. It's odd though that Tangled was not targeted at all even though it was a princess fairy tale set in some generic European location with an all-white cast. Tumblr was already pretty big back then.

[disneyprincess11]

I found this on Tumblr. SO ACCURATE

Seeing all this Frozen hate makes me wonder how Tumblr would react if the rest of the Disney Princess films were released now

Snow White: ugh I can't believe they portrayed her as a damsel in distress and the man had to save her MISOGYNY
Cinderella: well done Disney another damsel in distress and whoa a woman has to do housework? MISOGYNY
Sleeping Beauty: ugh Aurora looks just like Cinderella another blonde haired blue eyed princess
The Little Mermaid: omg she didn't even have red hair and whoa she's practically naked way to sexualise a children's tale Disney
Beauty and the Beast: what a talking candelabra how weird Disney is clearly running out of ideas
Aladdin: FINALLY A PRINCESS OF COLOUR but she's in skimpy clothing and therefore being sexualised
Pocahontas: YAY ANOTHER PRINCESS OF COLOUR but this is such an inaccurate representation of Native Americans EVERYONE BOYCOTT THIS MOVIE AND WATCH THIS ONE INSTEAD
Mulan: finally an Asian princess but oh god another talking sidekick way to distract from the storyline Disney
YES! except Aurora's eyes are actually Violet hehe

The Pocahontas, Jasmine, and Mulan one hit it out of the park.

[Dragonlion]

The problem with posts like this, and there are many, is that what some people are calling "lazy" is actually a carefully sculpted and maintained "house style". Divinity pointed it out - it's been the same since the studio began. Some people hate that, and that's fair. They want variety. But because Disney's house style works (read: makes money), that's what they are going to keep doing. You can only fault them for that so much. It isn't lazy, it's just not risky. There's a difference.

While I agree with you about Disney being less risky, the thing is is that Disney has taken risks with their house style before , in recent memory even. Just compare movies like Pocahontas, Hercules, Mulan, The Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis, and even Home on the Range. Disney is clearly capable of making films that break the mold and a lot of the mentioned films are well liked by fans. That's what people mean when they say Frozen is "bland" or "lazy".

In regards to the issue of race for instance it would be fairer to have a go at Robinsons, Bolt and Ralph for their lack of representation, given that they take place in modern America rather than a story based on and set in Scandinavia which is predominantly white. Yet it's Frozen that gets the flak, mainly due to its placement as a princess film, I believe.

It certainly seems that way. It's odd though that Tangled was not targeted at all even though it was a princess fairy tale set in some generic European location with an all-white cast. Tumblr was already pretty big back then.

Part of that is because since Frozen is coming out soon, so it's a more relevant issue than older films. I'm sure there may have been complaints about the other movies if you search hard enough, I think I remember some for Ralph. I haven't seen Bolt, but I think since it mostly was about animals, it probably wouldn't have gotten top priority. I also think people target princess films because it is the widest reaching marketing Disney has and it has a lot of influence on pop culture. There definitely was complaints of Tangled and Brave not having people of color at least back in 2012.

[Avaitor]

Another thing in Tangled's favor is that Rapunzel was the first white princess Disney had done in over 20 years. The past few princesses were of other ethnicities, but if you count Merida, this is going to be our third white princess movie in a row.

Not that I agree with the criticism, mind you.

[phan258]

Agree with qindarka as well. It's especially irritating that these people like to label anyone who does not back their arguments as racist/misogynists/so on, and within the little echo chamber of like opinions that they've created there's no room for actual, rational discussion. Although I certainly remember Tangled getting plenty of uncalled for flak in its early days, like Rapunzel being a plain/uninspired design and that for some reason Eugene narrating the beginning and ending made the movie more about him than her (????). And look how that turned out...I admit I felt very smug when it turned out to be such a success, a kind of 'ha, knew it' feeling. Hoping for a repeat this time around.

[SWillie!]

While I agree with you about Disney being less risky, the thing is is that Disney has taken risks with their house style before , in recent memory even. Just compare movies like Pocahontas, Hercules, Mulan, The Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis, and even Home on the Range. Disney is clearly capable of making films that break the mold and a lot of the mentioned films are well liked by fans. That's what people mean when they say Frozen is "bland" or "lazy".

You've proved my point in the selection of movies you chose. Not a single one of them was anywhere near as successful (again, I'm talking MONEY) as those that use a 'safer' style. Mulan may be an exception, but I'd argue that Mulan's design is hardly breaking the mold. And honestly, I'd argue that not a single one of those film break any "mold". Yeah, the designs are slightly more caricatured and angular, but overall it's still immediately recognizable as "Disney".

[Dragonlion]

While I agree with you about Disney being less risky, the thing is is that Disney has taken risks with their house style before , in recent memory even. Just compare movies like Pocahontas, Hercules, Mulan, The Emperor's New Groove, Atlantis, and even Home on the Range. Disney is clearly capable of making films that break the mold and a lot of the mentioned films are well liked by fans. That's what people mean when they say Frozen is "bland" or "lazy".

You've proved my point in the selection of movies you chose. Not a single one of them was anywhere near as successful (again, I'm talking MONEY) as those that use a 'safer' style. Mulan may be an exception, but I'd argue that Mulan's design is hardly breaking the mold. And honestly, I'd argue that not a single one of those film break any "mold". Yeah, the designs are slightly more caricatured and angular, but overall it's still immediately recognizable as "Disney".

Fair enough (I wouldn't necessarily say that they failed because of their style, but whatever).