Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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Disney's Divinity
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Disney's Divinity »

Semaj wrote:The Five Stages of Death

Denial (2003-2004): "No, Disney animation can't be dead. It's just hibernating." :|

Anger (2005-2007): "FUCK DISNEY! THOSE IDIOTS KILLED THEIR OWN HISTORY!" :x

Bargaining (2008-2011): "If we go to see The Princess and the Frog and Winnie the Pooh more than once, Disney will HAVE to bring hand-drawn back for real!" :ears:

Depression (2012): "I can't believe there are no more hand-drawn features." :cry:

Acceptance (2013): "Tangled was great, and I loved Wreck-it Ralph! I'm sure Disney has a bright future with their CGI features." :)
:lol: I agree with this for the most part. But I don't have to like Tangled or WIR to accept that hand-drawn is dead at Disney. (Although I thought WIR was okay, and wouldn't mind a sequel.)
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

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qindarka wrote:Kathleen Kennedy isn't the messiah. There is a good chance that if she is appointed, nothing will change, it's not like the company president is the supreme overlord, the are beholden to shareholders and are responsible for profit above all else. I'd encourage you not to hope for too much from her.
I said this pages ago. People here just don't read or rather are too retarded to grasp that concept in their heads.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by JTurner »

Do we really have to go through this again? We don't really know for SURE what Disney is planning. For all we know a future Disney animation feature MAY use the handdrawn technique in the style of Paperman. And personally, I'm OK with that.

Handdrawn animation won't be gone forever either; aside from the Disney classics, there's Studio Ghibli, European companies, and some other independent animation studios.

Maybe someday if handdrawn animation becomes popular again (in the form of an outside artist ala Don Bluth), I'm sure Disney will jump on the bandwagon again. At this point, speculating is useless.
UmbrellaFish wrote:I've known for about a year now that Disney was finished with 2D, but I'm not depressed. For the first time in a long time, Disney is making must-see movies again. Quality movies.

Besides, an entire medium can't just die-- especially one utilized in such cherished endeavors as Disney movies 1937-2004. It'll be back, in spurts maybe, but Winnie the Pooh is not Disney's last hand-drawn movie.
Of course. Just because WtP was the last hand-drawn movie we've seen from Disney doesn't mean it'll be the last ever. But I'm all for cel animation in 3D; Paperman looked quite good in 3D, and if that's the style Disney wants to use with its subsequent features, fine with me. It's better than throwing handdrawn animation away altogether.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Marky_198 »

JTurner wrote: Paperman looked quite good in 3D, and if that's the style Disney wants to use with its subsequent features, fine with me. It's better than throwing handdrawn animation away altogether.
The animation looked good, but they need to take a look at the character designs too. The eyes are still too big, which makes the characters look like bugs. (That's also the case in Tangled). They design the characters in CGI, and turn them into 2d looking characters, but that also means that they are not limited to those exaggerated features anymore.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by estefan »

You don't think Ariel's eyes were too big? Considering Ariel, Rapunzel and Meg (from Paperman) were all designed by Glen Keane, it makes sense they would have big eyes. Big eyes even go back to classic Disney.

The reason anime and manga characters have massive eyes is because Osamu Tezuka, who is pretty the grandfather and pioneer of those mediums and inspired a good chunk of the artists who came later, was heavily influenced by the Disney style of big eyes and expressions and wanted to emulate that in his artwork.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Elladorine »

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So Ariel's eyes are smaller? Ah, ok. :milkbuds:
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Marky_198 »

In all the other scenes, yes, as you can see in my examples.

And even if Ariel's eyes look a bit big in this shot, at least the mouth/eye proportions are more balanced.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by SWillie! »

I honestly thought you were trolling for a long time, Marky.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Kyle »

Marky_198 wrote:They design the characters in CGI, and turn them into 2d looking characters, but that also means that they are not limited to those exaggerated features anymore.
Big eyes give you more freedom, not less. Small eyes tend to look dead to me, regardless of the medium. The one exception being live action of course.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Marky_198 »

SWillie! wrote:I honestly thought you were trolling for a long time, Marky.
No, I'm serious, so you don't have to mention it anymore.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Sotiris »

Kyle wrote:Small eyes tend to look dead to me, regardless of the medium.
Really? Characters like Mulan or Pocahontas have smaller eyes yet they are very expressive.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Marky_198 »

Kyle wrote: Big eyes give you more freedom, not less. Small eyes tend to look dead to me, regardless of the medium. The one exception being live action of course.

It's funny that you mention this. When I was looking for a good Rapunzel pic on Google, I noticed that her eyes looked dead in every screenshot. CGI eyes, although big, tend to look dead to me. 2D eyes have this sparkle of life, in the Disney Classics at least, that I miss in the new films.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Elladorine »

In hand-drawn, the proportions really depend on the particular artists working on the specific scenes in question. Keane draws the bigger eyes, like in the example I gave of Ariel. And since he was her character designer and lead animator, I consider his work to be the most representative and on-model of what she is supposed to be.

We can go around to nitpick and compare screencaps all we want, but the fact of the matter remains that she was originally designed to have the larger eyes. You're entitled to your opinions about what makes animation designs look better, more appealing, or "balanced," but keep in mind it's all subjective. Many agree that the larger eyes, heads, etc. make a character more youthful, appealing, easier to relate to, and much more expressive. It's when an artist tries too hard to replicate realism that the illusion can fall apart, as this particular type of character animation is all about exaggeration through movement and design.

Even characters with smaller eyes tend to have larger eyes than a realistic human, although there are numerous reasons of course to vary the size of the features and overall "cartoony-ness" in order to suit the type of role each character is supposed to play.

And as for what gives character "life," that's also subjective. Sometimes eyes in the form of dots are enough to give a character life. In anime, characters are often deliberately depicted without highlights on their eyes if they're hypnotized, possessed, etc. in order to make them appear lifeless. I fail to see what gives Rapunzel "dead" eyes aside from being biased against CG but to each his own; we're all free to dislike CG, tablets, charcoal, oils, watercolor, pencils, or whatever. :)
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Kyle »

Sotiris wrote:
Kyle wrote:Small eyes tend to look dead to me, regardless of the medium.
Really? Characters like Mulan or Pocahontas have smaller eyes yet they are very expressive.
Well I did say tend, as its not a catch all rule by any means. But in these examples I might replace the word dead to "stoic" or "strong" which is what these two characters had to be. They didn't have the same acting range (in the eyes), but they also didn't need it. Race also played a part in the eye shapes/sizes for these. You couldn't really give them big open caucasian eyes. But in cases like Paperman, tangled, frozen, big eyes big work.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by TsWade2 »

qindarka wrote:Kathleen Kennedy isn't the messiah. There is a good chance that if she is appointed, nothing will change, it's not like the company president is the supreme overlord, the are beholden to shareholders and are responsible for profit above all else. I'd encourage you not to hope for too much from her.
I don't care what you say. Sorry. :P
I said this pages ago. People here just don't read or rather are too retarded to grasp that concept in their heads.
I do know how to read and I'm not a retard. I just don't agree that hand drawn is dead or the excuse of poor storytelling.
Do we really have to go through this again? We don't really know for SURE what Disney is planning. For all we know a future Disney animation feature MAY use the handdrawn technique in the style of Paperman. And personally, I'm OK with that.

Handdrawn animation won't be gone forever either; aside from the Disney classics, there's Studio Ghibli, European companies, and some other independent animation studios.

Maybe someday if handdrawn animation becomes popular again (in the form of an outside artist ala Don Bluth), I'm sure Disney will jump on the bandwagon again. At this point, speculating is useless.
Of course. Just because WtP was the last hand-drawn movie we've seen from Disney doesn't mean it'll be the last ever. But I'm all for cel animation in 3D; Paperman looked quite good in 3D, and if that's the style Disney wants to use with its subsequent features, fine with me. It's better than throwing handdrawn animation away altogether.
Thank you. And of course I'll give hybrid animation a chance. Just hopefully as good as Paperman. :)
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by disneyboy20022 »

Right now Hand drawn animation is dead. However like the world of comic books, just because someone dies, doesn't mean they are gone for good :wink:
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by TsWade2 »

disneyboy20022 wrote:Right now Hand drawn animation is dead. However like the world of comic books, just because someone dies, doesn't mean they are gone for good :wink:
Hand drawn id dead? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Just kidding! :wink:

If it's for now, then hopefully it'll come back as soon as Bob Iger is gone in 2016. :)
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by JTurner »

TsWade2 wrote:
disneyboy20022 wrote:Right now Hand drawn animation is dead. However like the world of comic books, just because someone dies, doesn't mean they are gone for good :wink:
Hand drawn id dead? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Just kidding! :wink:

If it's for now, then hopefully it'll come back as soon as Bob Iger is gone in 2016. :)
In the eyes of some people, handdrawn animation is. But that doesn't mean you have to feel the same way. However, it's also best that you don't try to start arguments with people who have already made up their minds beforehand. I've made the mistake of doing that on some other topics I feel passionately about, and it caused me nothing but grief.

But handdrawn animation will always have a life of its own. It may not be hot at Disney at the moment, but even Iger said that they weren't ruling out another handdrawn feature even last month as the layoffs began.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney?

Post by Sotiris »

estefan wrote:I know this is 1996 and so, the technology was still being worked on, but I see no problems with the wildebeests stampeding towards Simba in The Lion King.
That's because they weren't human characters. It's always more difficult with humans.
Kyle wrote:Race also played a part in the eye shapes/sizes for these. You couldn't really give them big open Caucasian eyes.
But characters like Cinderella, Wendy, Alice, Anita etc don’t have such big eyes and yet they work just as well.

I am skeptical of this recent the-bigger-eyes-the-better trend in character designing. It’s being overused, especially in animation. You can’t seem to find a female character in a contemporary animated film that doesn't have huge eyes. They keep using the same design over and over. I know characters with big eyes are perceived as more welcoming and relatable but it has become such an unoriginal and uninspired approach in making a character look appealing--which is not always guaranteed anyway. If you're not careful, you can end up with a highly disproportionate facial structure. Also, it’s easier to fall into stock poses and expressions and over-the-top acting with big eyes. Smaller ones can give way to a much more nuanced performance.

I would prefer if there was more diversity in character design instead of the same face all the time. A recent example is that of Rapunzel/Anna which I find inexcusable.
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