"Needs More Love: Animated Films"

[toplaycool22]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/N ... matedFilms

You go down to the Disney section, they talk about Hercules, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, The Rescuers Down Under, Bolt, Meet the Robinsons, and The Great Mouse Detective needing more love. I have to disagree with TV Tropes on this list.

In terms of Hunchback, while Disney has done darker films in the past successfully (I.E. Snow White, Pinocchio and Fantasia) Hunchback is not as successful with it's "dark" tones. The film is a perfect example of what was going on with the creation of the film. They wanted to try something different and darker but yet throw in the disney cliches that didn't match with the film's tone. The ONLY thing that works in this film is Frollo, that's it. Frollo is a great villain, and the song Hellfire is amazing. But that is only one component. Just because a film has one good thing about it doesn't mean it is all the way around a great film. Take Iron Lady for instance. It is only remembered because of Meryl Streep's performance but the rest of the film falls flat. Most people dislike the gargoyles because they are just throw in characters to keep with the "disney sidekick" syndrome. Quasimodo, while not a bad character, when you compare him to other portrayals like the Charles Laughton version in 1939, falls flat for sure. The songs are very good, but not memorable. there is no "Be Our Guest" or "Circle of Life" in this movie. The animation is very well done, have to admit that. But like I said, the film has to be ALL the way around good. I think because Hunchback is not adaptable for "disney", maybe Don Bluth would of handled this project better since his films had more adult subject matters with out the Disney cliches in your face.

Hercules, well it is the Aladdin wanna-be. They had good intensions but it falls flat even more than Hunchback. Hercules is really bland as a character. Aladdin is way more memorable than Hercules. There is nothing special about him. The side characters don't have stand out moments. The music doesn't work when you think about it. Gospel with Greek myths? eh NO! The only good song is "I Won't Say I'm in Love." That was nice and catchy. Hades, great villain (probably because James Woods is awesome). But like what I said about Hunchback, that is only a few good components while the rest fails. The animation is ehhh, not the best way to interpret Scarfe. I find it strange that the film did soso at the box-office and it still got a TV series and a tv film (though it did not last long). Plus Hercules is featured quite a lot in Kingdom Hearts and it isn't even that popular. Disney was just desperate for a hit at the time and since both Pocahontas and Hunchback turned everyone off by being too dramatic, this was their answer. Not the best one. Also, the story has WAY too familiar stolen storylines (Superman and Rocky). I know, you are gonna say "What about Lilo & Stitch? It has E.T. written all over it." Not really, it may sort of a connection to E.T. it was still a good stand alone film.

The Great Mouse Detective is not a bad film, but not great one. What's good about it? Ratigan, GREAT villain (Hell it's Vincent Price!). Basil, good hero. Some songs are nice. The animation is pretty good, the best parts are the clock fight sequence and some of the toy shop stuff. And that is basically all the great stuff. What's wrong with it? Nothing really? It is just that the side characters, while not bad, they are boring except for fidget. Some parts of the story is rather slow moving. I love Henry Mancini, but he needs to make up his mind on weather this was to be a musical or not. It's like there are some moments where the characters break into song and then no more songs. The rest of the animation is just ok, and that's it. Like I said above, the clock tower and toy shop scenes really stand out. You want a good mouse film? The Rescuers. Now that one SHOULD be an important Disney classic (it was the ONLY disney hit after The Jungle Book and before The Little Mermaid). Plus it received a sequel, and good one for that matter. Great Mouse may not be a flop per say, it was a modest success at the box office, it was no Rescuers hit. Great Mouse just helped move the studio forward.

Not really gonna get into the Disney sequels stuff because they were mostly direct-to-video. Though I do agree that Cinderella III was good.

Bolt and Meet the Robinsons while were better than Chicken Little, they are just ok. Like The Great Mouse Detective, they helped move the studio forward ONLY. Tangled and Wreck It Ralph are far more superior films than these two. But I will give credit to both Meet the Robinsons and Bolt for helping Disney get back on track. You can see that Disney was trying. Both films have moments that were good and you can tell that something was coming. Tangled and Wreck It Ralph was thats something and everything came in full circle. Hopefully Frozen continues this trend.

You want Disney Films that need more love? Well, I already mentioned The Rescuers, but I would have to say Mulan, Tarzan, The Emperor's New Groove and The Princess and the Frog. While Mulan did way better than Pocahontas, Hunchback and Hercules, and Disney does give this film attention, not enough. It is featured in products, parks, film montages etc. but not enough. Tarzan, same deal. The Princess and the Frog brought back Disney 2-D Animation. It was a nice welcome-back. Got 3 Oscar nominations, and received great reviews. All 3 of these films NEED a attraction at Disney parks. Now, I know Tarzan has one in Disneyland, but not in Disney WORLD. The Emperor's New Groove is probably the most underrated out of the all of them. Mulan, Tarzan and The Princess and the Frog may not be featured as much as Snow White or Lion King, they do still get some level of attention. New Groove doesn't really get attention at all and yet it has a huge following. It made money on VHS and DVD, got a sequel and TV series.

So, that's my opinion about this, what's yours?

[toplaycool22]

You know what would be very nice to see, statements that say....Oh I don't know "No toplaycool22 you are wrong about Hunchback," or "you made good points about Bolt and Meet the Robinsons." Somewhere along those lines of opinions that I did not receive yet. (high pitched) mhmmmm?????!!!

[toplaycool22]

hmm I wonder where are the DVDizzy.com forum members? What happened to their opinions being expressed on here? Where are the "I agree" or "I disagree" statements?

[kenai3000]

You are absolutely wrong about Hunchback. That movie is a masterpiece. Sure the gargoyles are stupid, but they are the comic relief in what is otherwise the darkest Disney movie ever made. Say what you will about Snow White, but that movie is not as dark. All the characters in Hunchback are likeable. Frollo is the best villain ever. The songs are great, Alan Menken's score is great. I wish it would get more attention.

[Super Aurora]

You know what would be very nice to see, statements that say....Oh I don't know "No toplaycool22 you are wrong about Hunchback," or "you made good points about Bolt and Meet the Robinsons." Somewhere along those lines of opinions that I did not receive yet. (high pitched) mhmmmm?????!!!

hmm I wonder where are the DVDizzy.com forum members? What happened to their opinions being expressed on here? Where are the "I agree" or "I disagree" statements?

Maybe they don't care or want to respond to your thread, you attention seeking whiner.

[disneyboy20022]

The reason Frollo is such an effective villain is that there are lots of Frollo's out there (no pun interned) in the real world from the past and the present. Perhaps we have run into someone like Frollo in our lives. The fact is he's just a normal human, no magic, no superpowers, just human. Because of that, he's more realistic and more of a threat in a way.

[thelittleursula]

You are absolutely wrong about Hunchback. That movie is a masterpiece. Sure the gargoyles are stupid, but they are the comic relief in what is otherwise the darkest Disney movie ever made. Say what you will about Snow White, but that movie is not as dark. All the characters in Hunchback are likeable. Frollo is the best villain ever. The songs are great, Alan Menken's score is great. I wish it would get more attention.

This.

I also disagree with you about Hercules being bland as a character.

The reason Frollo is such an effective villain is that there are lots of Frollo's out there (no pun interned) in the real world from the past and the present. Perhaps we have run into someone like Frollo in our lives. The fact is he's just a normal human, no magic, no superpowers, just human. Because of that, he's more realistic and more of a threat in a way.

This too.

[toplaycool22]

You are absolutely wrong about Hunchback. That movie is a masterpiece. Sure the gargoyles are stupid, but they are the comic relief in what is otherwise the darkest Disney movie ever made. Say what you will about Snow White, but that movie is not as dark. All the characters in Hunchback are likeable. Frollo is the best villain ever. The songs are great, Alan Menken's score is great. I wish it would get more attention.

I had no bad reviews about Frollo, I said he was a good villain. And there, you said the gargoyles are stupid, no one says that about the seven dwarfs or Jiminy Cricket which do star in darker films. I think what you are trying to say is that Snow White is dark in a more fantastical way because the queen turns into a hag in a scary way while Hunchback is dark in a adult way by featuring religious and sexual themes that are more apparent than even in Fantasia. Victor Hugo's books were meant for adult readers, not for young children. Could Disney do Les Miserables as a animated film for children? Probably not. Especially since the story features prostitutes. The songs are good, no one is denying that. But in terms of "Disney" style songs, it does not rank up there with songs like Be Our Guest or Circle of Life. I would say Hunchback could be compared to more of the live-action musical songs.

Maybe they don't care or want to respond to your thread, you attention seeking whiner.

ahhh your sister smokes cornsilk.

[disneyboy20022]

Maybe they don't care or want to respond to your thread, you attention seeking whiner.

ahhh your sister smokes cornsilk.

[toplaycool22]

[disneyboy20022]

Is this suppose to be a Smiley competition

Super Aurora is rough around the edges, and can say some things out of line, but he's overall a good guy. I will ask you both to stop throwing insults at each other. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[toplaycool22]

Is this suppose to be a Smiley competition

No.

Super Aurora is rough around the edges, and can say some things out of line, but he's overall a good guy. I will ask you both to stop throwing insults at each other. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Ok if you say so, the insults will stop.

[disneyboy20022]

Super Aurora is rough around the edges, and can say some things out of line, but he's overall a good guy. I will ask you both to stop throwing insults at each other. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Ok if you say so, the insults will stop.

I hope they stop. The mods are not as forgiving as I am (in Darth Vader voice)

[toplaycool22]

Also thelittleursula, can you be more specific about why you disagree?

[CJ]

The mods are not as forgiving as I am (in Darth Vader voice)

This is a very true statement. Excellent job of handling this, disneyboy!

I'm in a rare fantastic mood this evening, and this matter was handled well by disneyboy, so I am going to leave without issuing any warnings this time.

I will say this, toplaycool22, it is highly frowned upon to bump up one's own thread without adding something substantial to the conversation. Asking why no one is discussing your topic is not adding something substantial to the conversation. It was a needless thread bump. If a thread is interesting to other forum members, it will gather replies without being needlessly bumped up. You can't force anyone reply to your topic, so you have to patience.

[disneyboy20022]

The mods are not as forgiving as I am (in Darth Vader voice)

This is a very true statement. Excellent job of handling this, disneyboy!

Just call me the unofficial Mod

Also speaking of Hunchback, I can't wait to see it on Blu ray this week.

One thing that I thought was different about Hunchback is the main protagonist doesn't get the girl this time. The reason I like Hunchback 2 is because Quasi gets the girl this round, though the animation is horrible, at least the original cast returns to their respective roles which made it more tolerable for me.

[toplaycool22]

I was just hoping to see really good opinions of people agreeing or disagreeing with my critique about the article and the films represented in the article. And I felt that this post was almost getting ignored by going down the Disney discussion list and it would not get any response.


Well, anyway, can we PLEASE get back to what this post is about. Very few of you have talked about what this post is about. Do you agree with what I said about the article and films or not?

[PatrickvD]

I was just hoping to see really good opinions of people agreeing or disagreeing with my critique about the article and the films represented in the article. And I felt that this post was almost getting ignored by going down the Disney discussion list and it would not get any response.

How many Hunchback/Hercules discussions do we need? These movies have been dissected to the bone around here.

Everyone knows how everyone feels about them. And we all agree that Disney should pay more attention to them but we know they most likely won't. This whole topic is beating a dead horse.

[Linden]

Well, anyway, can we PLEASE get back to what this post is about. Very few of you have talked about what this post is about. Do you agree with what I said about the article and films or not?

I didn't post on this thread in the first place because I couldn't tell what the topic of the thread is supposed to be. I still can't really tell. The title doesn't help things very much either.

[Dr Frankenollie]

Hercules is really bland as a character. Aladdin is way more memorable than Hercules. There is nothing special about him.

I like his design. Aladdin's design is better, yes, but everything about Aladdin automatically beats every other Renaissance protagonist (outside, of course, Ariel). Nevertheless, Andreas Deja's design is excellent. As for his character, I quite like the contrast between his absurd strength and his goofy awkwardness. His bumbling awkwardness is quite endearing, as is his sweet romance and natural chemistry with the perfectly polar opposite Meg.

The Great Mouse Detective is not a bad film, but not great one. What's good about it? Ratigan, GREAT villain (Hell it's Vincent Price!). Basil, good hero. Some songs are nice. The animation is pretty good, the best parts are the clock fight sequence and some of the toy shop stuff. And that is basically all the great stuff. What's wrong with it? Nothing really? It is just that the side characters, while not bad, they are boring except for fidget. Some parts of the story is rather slow moving.

Pardon? "Basil, good hero"?! How about "great hero"? FINALLY, a Disney protagonist who is as interesting and entertaining as the antagonist, a hero funnier than the side characters, a hero who is not only far from bland, but completely and utterly distant from the usual Disney character traits: he's not patient, or kind, or cheerful, or optimistic. He's cranky, rude, selfish, temperate and quite off-the-wall. The result is that he is one of the most immensely charismatic characters in the entire DAC canon.