The Black Cauldron v. Treasure Planet

[Disney's Divinity]

The Black Cauldron and Treasure Planet are considered two of Disney's biggest flops, due to how much money was poured into each film and how little was made back. Both are fairly different from most Disney films, for better or worse.

Whether or not either film deserved to flop, which film is your favorite? Which film do you think is better, objectively? Which film's animation/story/protagonist/villain do you prefer? Or, if it's easier, which film do you dislike less?

[qindarka]

The Black Cauldron. Characters are for the most part a lot more interesting than what came before. Taran, in particular, is the first protagonist since Pinocchio to have a proper character arc and actually develop. Interesting themes as well, regarding the nature of heroism as exemplified by the character of Gurgi who is utterly pathetic and yet emerges as the most noble character in the film. Plot is a bit of a mess though, they pretty much dropped Hen wen's involvement halfway through when they presented her as being si important earlier.

Treasure Planet is ok. A little bland, some annoying characters but nothing too bad. Nothing that really stands out either. CG animation doesn't seem to mesh well with the backgrounds, though that is a problem that goes back to the Disney Renaissance.

[Sotiris]

I prefer Treasure Planet, hands down. I find every aspect of it is better than The Black Cauldron. The characters, the visuals, the story. Of course, that's not to say that I don't like The Black Cauldron at all. It does have redeeming qualities to it like the animation, the villain, and the witches. But I find the movie uninteresting overall.

[Linden]

I know I've expressed my love for Treasure Planet in other threads, but in case anyone missed it, my vote goes unreservedly to Treasure Planet. With a strong story, impressive visuals, complex main characters (well, Jim and Silver, for sure), and an overall fascinating concept, Treasure Planet is enjoyable on all levels. I love almost everything about it. Yes, even B.E.N. I guess I have a different sense of humour than everyone else on the board. There are only a few of his jokes that annoy me. The one con that really sticks out to me, though, is Dr. Doppler. His tacked on "romance" with Captain Amelia didn't add anything to the story, and I feel it took away from what they were trying to do with Captain Amelia. Also, his jokes are far more annoying than B.E.N.'s. That's not to say he doesn't have his moments, but his annoying moments surpass his non-annoying ones.

There are some things I like about The Black Cauldron. I really like Disney's characterisation of Taran. It's realistic and true to the books. But therein lies my problem. I'm always going to compare it to the books, which are very close to my heart. And the movie does not measure up in any way, shape, or form. Eilonwy's a shadow of what she should be. Fflewddur's a little closer, but not quite. The plot is all wonky. Like they put the first two books in a blender, gave everything Disney makeovers, and didn't edit it. I don't understand why they chose source material like The Chronicles of Prydain in the first place. I can enjoy it when I try to forget what it is, but even then, it's not that great.

I do appreciate that Disney is keeping the movie rights to The Chronicles of Prydain safe, though. I don't need to see a movie adaptation for it like The Seeker or The Secret of Moonacre.

[REINIER]

Apples & oranges if you ask me, but at gunpoint.. Treasureplanet. Visually superior, storywise brilliant, character development with a large cast is difficult, in the case of Treasureplanet I find it to be well conceived. Silver's duality in the picture makes for a real interesting movie.

[Pokeholic_Prince]

"The Black Cauldron" is an alright movie. The characters aren't too interesting, but the animation is decent. The story is interesting, but ultimately poorly paced. The Horned King in theory sound nice, but in the film he really doesn't do anything.

"Treasure Planet" on the other hand is actually a really good movie. It's underrated and under appreciated. First of all the animation is gorgeous, some of the best blending of hand-drawn and CGI. The character of Jim Hawkins may seem bland, but he has a depressing back story. Sliver, is a great anti-hero. He's complex and we never really know what he's thinking. Silver and Jim's relationship is really touching and deep and really what makes the movie. The story has its ups and downs and a couple side character can be annoying, but for the most part Jim has a good character arc. I think the big reason people don't like it or just push it aside is because it's just Treasure Island in space, but the things they do in this film are extremely creative and commendable. That's just objectively.
Subjectively, I really enjoy the designs and the idea f blending old and new together. I personally got a super underlying message about how CGI and new tech is taking over, but when combined with old things like hand-drawn or architecture a lot is possible. But IDK, I think that's just me. I love the use of music and the song "I Wanna Feel" is great. I think if I rank it among my favorite animated movies it'd be at least top 30.

[Marce82]

Man, they are both GOD awful. I think I;ve only watched Black Cauldron once all the way thru. And it was a chore to sit thru. A few years later I tried it again, and turned it off half way thru, cause I was so bored.

I saw Treasure Planet in theaters. Just awful. Mile long list of why its a bad movie.

If I HAD to choose, I suppose I would pick Treasure Planet, cause it has cool art direction, and a nice prologue...

[Saturius2000]

I agree with the above poster. I thought these two films were just flat out A.W.F.U.L. But if I had to choose, I too would go with Treasure Planet. At least they tried something interesting with the concept. And the depiction of the relationship between the two main characters was admirable.

But the Black Cauldron. Good God. I honestly don't know why people say this movie is underrated or whatever. To me, it's just terrible. It only has one, and I do mean only one redeeming feature, and that's the animation. Everything else is horrifically bad. Story, characters, plot, they were all just abominable. It's easy to see why this flopped and why Disney hardly ever gives it mention. One of my most disappointing DVD purchases ever.

[Jay]

Treasure Planet.


I really do not like the Black Cauldron. Definitely in my bottom 3 for least favorite animated Disney movie of all time.

[Disney's Divinity]

Hard decision for me. If I were being objective, I’d say TBC is better, overall. Although TP’s best moments outshine everything from TBC, TBC is never as awful in general as some of TP’s worst moments either.

Treasure Planet clearly has the stronger characters (Jim, John Silver), while everyone besides the witches and the Horned King is forgettable in TBC. I often rank TP high among my favorites just because of Jim; he’s one of my favorite male characters and protagonists, partly because I identify with him somewhat thanks to the “I’m Still Here” sequence and he is a cute character. Definitely prefer him to Taran. John Silver is also well-developed, and something a little different for Disney; well-voiced and I love his cyborg design. Most of the designs for characters in TBC are extremely basic. Yes, I know that’s common with Disney, but regardless they aren’t anything interesting to look out. I don’t hate any of the characters, they just never seem fleshed out enough to be likable. I wouldn't say I preferred one villain over another, since Silver and the Horned King are so different from one another, and they were both successful to me. Amelia and Doppler annoy me somewhat in TP, but BEN is one of the worst Disney characters, period. One of the other worst parts of TP (besides BEN) is the alien designs, most of which are really stupid and eye roll-worthy to me. I know a lot of people hate Gurgi, but he never really bothered me, though his voice/design leave a lot to be desired.

I would say the two films are about equal in terms of animation, but TP’s integration of 3D is absolutely awful (particularly the whales). I don’t prefer either story, since I think they’re both lacking. I personally like the music in TP, but the fact that so many don’t shows that it wasn’t a great choice for the movie if they wanted it to have a “timeless” quality.

I don’t outright hate either movie, but I think they are deservedly ranked near the bottom by most Disney fans (even if I have a special place in my heart for TP).

[Dr Frankenollie]

For obvious reasons, I haven't watched either recently. But from what I recall about both...I have no major incentive to watch either again. But if push comes to shove, although I am rather fond of some particular elements of Black Cauldron, Treasure Planet is better overall: better hero, better villain (the Horned King can go alongside the likes of Chernabog as one of Disney's creepier villains, but the complex John Silver is more interesting), better designs (although Black Cauldron's animation is superior on the whole, yet this is primarily down to some poor CGI integration in Treasure Planet as DD said above rather than much merit in Black Cauldron...nevertheless, Silver's cyborg arm is integrated seamlessly and looks terrific) and it's a more riveting, slightly more suspenseful film. I find Gurgi more charming than any supporting characters in TP, but Jim is undeniably a more sympathetic and relatable character than Taran.

[robinhood21]

Both are among my worst 10 to 15, but I will say The Black Cauldron as I find Treasure Planet dull and uninteresting because of Jim's rebellious behaviour. I often wonder if Taran used the soul surfer, then would Dolban punish him too? If I were to make any character make a cameo, I'd use footage of Taran and Eilonwy in the castle in the scene of when the ship was being loaded.

[carolinakid]

Not a BIG fan of either but I judge them this way. I saw Black Cauldron in the theater in 1985 and I’ve watched the DVD twice.
Treasure Planet I saw once on DVD and have had no great urge to watch it again.

I remember when Gurgi’s Munchies and Crunchies was a quick service spot in Fantasyland at Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World from 1986-1993.
The location is now The Friar’s Nook.

[Farerb]

I prefer Treasure Planet, but I don't hate The Black Cauldron. It has good animation, but the film feels more like a Richard Rich film than a Disney film (not necessarily a bad thing). The Fox and the Hound was the last "old fashioned" Disney animated movie.

[DisneyFan09]

Treasure Planet is my favorite, without question. Because the music, animation and cinematography is simply better than The Black Cauldron`s. I remember seeing Cauldron once and I found it to be pretty bland and forgettable. And despite how they`re comparable for that lone reason, we`ll have to remember that Treasure Planet`s staple is regarded superior to Cauldron`s.

[Patricier21]

Speak of the devil, this weeks nostalgia critic is actually on treasure planet

https://youtu.be/WFHavhpfS5I?si=MlDNxawTshxV6Gp-

[The Disneynerd]

Idc Black Cauldron>>>>> but there are many factors where one is better than the other. While TP has a more emotional driven main Character and storyline with the Dad thing and Jim is a more complex and interesting character than Taran, Gurgi is a showstealer (also in terms of sidekicks) and the overall cast of Eilonwy, Taran, the old man whose Name i forgot, Henwen and Gurgi make a fun combo. The only characters I like in TP are Jim, John Silver and Morph. And i dont wanna write in circles so heres the list thing

Main character:
Taran <<<Jim Hawkins

Overall characters:
BC>>> TP

Genre:
Dark Fantasy>>>>>>>>Science Fiction duh

Animal Sidekick:
Gurgi>>>>>>> Morph
I loce Morph but Gurgi is a way more interesting and vulnerable character

Villain:
Horned King>> does this movie really have a villain?

Emotionalism:
BC<TP because Gurgi

Overall Story:
BC>TP

I just hate Science Fiction so this was clearly playing a small part in my perception.

Idk how to explain it but Fantasy/ Fairytales ffel more clean and believable and u have a better overview at the World, while Science Fiction always kinda feels the same, Especially the Star Warsy thing, theres not an interesting story for me and it always feels like the effects and the futuristic World building is the only selling point, but I really like old Survival Science Fiction movies like Alien or Time Travel classic Back to the Future, also Atlantis doesnt even really feel like Science Fiction at all, probably because its also set in the 1910s