Beauty & the Beast original colors - in upcoming platinu

[SWillie!]

I also owned and watched the VHS as a kid - but prefer the warm colors of the BD. I'm sure it is intentional that Belle stands out, but I feel she does in all of the transfers. Regardless, Don Hahn has discussed how involved he was in the restoration, and the issues they had transferring it to VHS initially, so we can only assume that the BD is more representative of the filmmakers vision, regardless of what we like better personally.

[filmmusic]

I also owned and watched the VHS as a kid - but prefer the warm colors of the BD. I'm sure it is intentional that Belle stands out, but I feel she does in all of the transfers. Regardless, Don Hahn has discussed how involved he was in the restoration, and the issues they had transferring it to VHS initially, so we can only assume that the BD is more representative of the filmmakers vision, regardless of what we like better personally.

yeah, i hear this all the time, about the BD being more representative of the filmmakers' vision..
By the way, which BLuray is it? the 2d or the 3d? because the colors keep changing..
Or is it, their vision keeps changing?

[Jules]

I had most of the Disney films on VHS when I was a kid, but they were all pirate copies, since the legit VHSes were incredibly expensive. My mum would tell the local VHS rentals place owner (her name was Bridget), to copy a video for me using her two VCRs. She'd then pay a small sum for the fresh copy of the (presumably) already rather worn rental copy.

Sometimes the quality was acceptable. With others it sucked a bit, but it's all I had. Despite watching these videos over and over I never became particularly attached to the films' colour palette, and when I bought the BatB Platinum edition in 2004, I just accepted the new colours as the correct colours as I was watching the film using a vastly superior medium to pirated VHS.

[filmmusic]

I had most of the Disney films on VHS when I was a kid, but they were all pirate copies, since the legit VHSes were incredibly expensive. My mum would tell the local VHS rentals place owner (her name was Bridget), to copy a video for me using her two VCRs. She'd then pay a small sum for the fresh copy of the (presumably) already rather worn rental copy.

Sometimes the quality was acceptable. With others it sucked a bit, but it's all I had. Despite watching these videos over and over I never became particularly attached to the films' colour palette, and when I bought the BatB Platinum edition in 2004, I just accepted the new colours as the correct colours as I was watching the film using a vastly superior medium to pirated VHS.

Well Jules, of course it depends on each person's character.
Others are very passionate with films, and animations, and maybe attached with the original ones and so on, and others just see the film, it doesn't matter much how it is..

it would be the same to me if eg.
I had purchased a T-shirt from the trash bin, and someone offered me the same T-shirt from a known label.
Since I'm not particularly sensitive about clothes, I couldn't care less which is better, or which is different.
Both would seem the same to me.
But to a person who is involved in clothing, loves clothes generally and his life is revolved around them, he would totally freak out(!) with the cheap T-Shirt!

this is how I see it...


and THIS is how a restoration should look:



or even this, where we have some slight changes in colors, but the general idea is the same! It doesn't change the aesthetics of the film:

[Jules]

I understand what you're saying, and it makes sense, but it doesn't quite apply to me. I am very passionate about animation and animated films. Perhaps I've never gotten obsessional about BatB's colours because it's not one of my favourite films. Maybe if Disney fiddled with Treasure Planet's colours, or messed up the artwork in Fantasia, then I would be seething.

Come to think of it, the colours in Fantasia's latest release are quite different from the earlier (ancient, really) DVD and especially from the pirated VHS I had in my childhood, but they look so good on the Blu-ray that I can't bring myself to complain.

Dunno.

EDIT: After posting this I realised you added a ton of stuff to your post. Need to sift through it.

EDIT2: Keep in mind that what Disney did with BatB is not an actual restoration. The entire film exists as bits and bytes. Disney could just grab it and plop it onto a disc (well, not exactly, but anyway ...) I imagine once the film was exported from CAPS, some form of post-production work took place, like colour correction. I would be intrigued to know how MANY times the film has been colour corrected and under whose supervision.

[filmmusic]

I understand what you're saying, and it makes sense, but it doesn't quite apply to me. I am very passionate about animation and animated films. Perhaps I've never gotten obsessional about BatB's colours because it's not one of my favourite films. Maybe if Disney fiddled with Treasure Planet's colours, or messed up the artwork in Fantasia, then I would be seething.

Come to think of it, the colours in Fantasia's latest release are quite different from the earlier (ancient, really) DVD and especially from the pirated VHS I had in my childhood, but they look so good on the Blu-ray that I can't bring myself to complain.

Dunno.

EDIT: After posting this I realised you added a ton of stuff to your post. Need to sift through it.

Yes, I undestand.
i wouldn't care either, if the colors had changed in "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh".
But I'm very passionate about Beauty and the Beast, because not only it's my favourite animation film, but it's also my favourite film of all time! (along with E.T.)

By the way, yes, there were some changes in Fantasia. I have objections there too but anyway..
especially with things like this:





here, we don't have a change of colors, due to a change in medium or problems in the transfer.
because if it was so, we'd have changes in ALL the colors (but here the ornaments remain the same color, and the background changes)
here, we have changes because some person(s), thought they were better than Walt Disney himself, so they changed the colors as they pleased !

[Jules]

Now that's odd! I wish I could be among these film restorationists (restorers?) to see what is done at both the film stage (i.e. cleaning and scanning of the nitrate negative) and within the computer using image manipulation software.

With the way they peel layers of age off these films, could it be that they unearth new visual information through thorough study?

[filmmusic]

Now that's odd! I wish I could be among these film restorationists (restorers?) to see what is done at both the film stage (i.e. cleaning and scanning of the nitrate negative) and within the computer using image manipulation software.

With the way they peel layers of age off these films, could it be that they unearth new visual information through thorough study?

well, i don't know, but when i saw Fantasia, it was like light coming out of the darkness. I mean it was a logical explanation..
the backgrounds towards the end of the Toccatta, were dark blue to black.

But now, this meaning is totally lost..

[The_Iceflash]

and how do you know what were the filmmakers thinking?
the point is, noone knows what they were thinking.
I think 271286 just offered his own interpretation (which i happened to like).


the issue is that that colors were changed, and we should live with that.
same issue with the Star Wars films that were changed and the ORIGINAL trilogy will never see the light of day in a High Definition format.
Lost in oblivion in the sands of time, as did the original look of Beauty and the Beast, and only available in an old VHS or Laserdisc, which will remind us how the film once looked, and how was it when we -the elder-, first saw it and loved it......

The creators have said the LD/VHS colors weren't the intended colors. This isn't like Star Wars where revisions were done because he felt like adding things. This was making it what it was supposed to be in the first place but got mess up in the transfer to film. I agree with Rodis as well, she still sticks out regardless. This isn't an issue of original theatrical release vs not like Star Wars. This is fixing an error. The only reason this is an issue is because people got used to the wrong colors. Big fans on the film should be ecstatic they are getting the film how it was intended, looking as great as it does.

yeah, i hear this all the time, about the BD being more representative of the filmmakers' vision..
By the way, which BLuray is it? the 2d or the 3d? because the colors keep changing..
Or is it, their vision keeps changing?

I'm going to say the 2D because the colors and lighting have to be adjusted for the 3D.





Oh and one last thing, colors being different doesn't make them wrong. Research and restoration efforts may prove VHS/LD/80s TV Broadcast colors to be wrong. I would NEVER use those as a color reference. I would hope and assume restorers don't either. Restorers have sources and documents we have no access to that determine color accuracy.

[Disney Duster]

Exactly like the_Iceflash said, the new colors are changed ON PURPOSE because they are the colors the filmakers intended. There was an article that talked to them and PROVED IT. They may change their minds a little bit which is why the 3D Blu-ray looks different from the 2D one, but each release is what the original filmakers intend.

The idea of Belle being in blue to stand out from the rest of the town is true. She and the Beast are the only characters who wear blue. The filmakers intended that, it's not just some of our interpretation.

[geniuswalt]

I own the 2D Bluray release and looking at the 3D release colors makes me wanna watch that...anyone can share a file copy to play as 2d?

[SWillie!]

Isn't the only reason the 2d and 3d blurays are different is because they have to bump the saturation and brightness because of the dark effect of 3d glasses?

[The_Iceflash]

Isn't the only reason the 2d and 3d blurays are different is because they have to bump the saturation and brightness because of the dark effect of 3d glasses?

Yes it is.

[Disney Duster]

Then shouldn't the 3D Blu-ray look BRIGHTER not darker?

[SWillie!]

Then shouldn't the 3D Blu-ray look BRIGHTER not darker?

Duster I think you might be losin your mind a little The 3d one IS brighter than the 2d one.

[Marce82]

1) As for Belle's dress being blue to stand out.... yes, this is true. But that is not a restoration point. No one is saying she should be wearing a different color. From restoration standpoint, either all colors are off, or none of them are (at least in the same shot).
So what? when they transferred the caps files to film back in 91, all the colors were botched, but somehow Belle's dress transferred perfectly?

2) About the 2D blu ray being true to the filmmaker's intentions. BULL!
They 2002 dvd transfer was SUPPOSEDLY true to the filmmaker's intentions, and it looks VERY different from the blu ray. Furthermore, the blu ray 3D isnt just brighter to accommodate the glasses... ALL THE HUES ARE DIFFERENT. DRASTICALLY.

They should just export the caps files as they were made in 91, and whatever is the result, thats the film. No added tints...

[Disney Duster]

Duster I think you might be losin your mind a little The 3d one IS brighter than the 2d one.

*looks back* Okay, yea I guess it is, but it looks closer to both the darker LaserDisc and VHS.

[jpanimation]

Isn't the only reason the 2d and 3d blurays are different is because they have to bump the saturation and brightness because of the dark effect of 3d glasses?

No. I've seen The Lion King 2D and 3D transfers right next to each other and they look exactly the same. I own the Toy Story 2D and 3D releases and outside of a slight increase in brightness, they're exactly the same. Beauty and the Beast actually changes the colors between releases and fixes an editing mistake. It's a whole new transfer, WAY more then a slight adjustment to counter the effects of wearing 3D glasses.

Then shouldn't the 3D Blu-ray look BRIGHTER not darker?

Duster I think you might be losin your mind a little The 3d one IS brighter than the 2d one.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Without the nasty looking tints over everything, the contrast improves tenfold, with the blacks getting black and the whites get white for once. Certain aspects of the images are brighter, certain parts are darker. It all varies by scene and by how much the tint was screwing it all up:

I'm going to say the 2D because the colors and lighting have to be adjusted for the 3D.

Well I'm going to say the 3D one, since that's the transfer they spent millions of dollars converting to 3D and it was the one that was in theaters. Not to mention, in that same article where he was talking about the restoration he was also talking about the 3D conversion that was part of it. The 2D version basically just carried over the Platinum Edition colors and tweaked the contrast so it didn't look washed out. The fact that the 3D version, the one they spent time and money on, has such radically different colors and has the correct edit (making it the only faithful transfer of the theatrical release) makes me think this is the one they supervised and were talking about.

[SWillie!]

Makes sense. I'm on board with jp.

[Disney Duster]

See, I wasn't losing my mind!