Frozen (formerly The Snow Queen) - Part II

[qindarka]

I wouldn't call the relationship between Triton and Ariel just an added side story. His realization that Ariel must be free to make her own decisions and subsequently turning her into a human is the most important scene in the movie.

I am saying that the similarities are superficial because while the characters may indeed be doing some of the same things as their counterparts from the source material, the themes and messages are different.

Of course, you have already conceded that ending was changed. The ending of any story is pivotal and such drastic changes as they made would render the entire film unfaithful to its source, regardless of whatever took place before.

Divinity might have a point about the film sharing the theme of a woman's experience in a patriarchal world. I admit that it mostly sailed over my head though it is probably due to my own failings.

[qindarka]

Hi again boys, is that true that John Lasserter said that he doesn't want that Frozen will be a romantic story because only attract to little girls?.

I think it's a little absurd...

Well, this is his exact quote:

"It's not a love story," assures Lasseter as he makes a case for upholding the studio's princess past. "I believe strongly that Disney needs to make these kinds of films. It is classically Disney, yet fresh and original for today's audiences. And not just for little girls."

Well, he certainly did mention that it won't be a love story. I think his point about it not only being for little girls is referring to the public perception that Disney's 'fairy-tale princess movies' are only for this particular demographic. I don't think he meant it as a slight on romance.

[DancingCrab]

I wouldn't call the relationship between Triton and Ariel just an added side story. His realization that Ariel must be free to make her own decisions and subsequently turning her into a human is the most important scene in the movie.

An important scene, yes, but it doesn't replace the main plot being her falling in love with Eric and making a deal with the Sea Witch for a chance at being with him. So yes, it IS an added side story from the main plot. It's part of the new happy ending and certainly a pivotal point to the new ending, but it is by no means the sole main focus of the entire film.

I am saying that the similarities are superficial because while the characters may indeed be doing some of the same things as their counterparts from the source material, the themes and messages are different.

Of course, you have already conceded that ending was changed. The ending of any story is pivotal and such drastic changes as they made would render the entire film unfaithful to its source, regardless of whatever took place before.

I COMPLETELY disagree that because the ending was changed it renders the entire film "unfaithful to it's source, regardless of what took place before." The only thing it renders unfaithful are the things that were changed. The things that were the same as the Andersen tale still remain the same, thus making it a clear-as-day adaptation of The Little Mermaid.

All I'm debating is that you saying Frozen's (so far, proposed) changes to The Snow Queen being less severe than the changes Disney made to The Little Mermaid, I completely disagree with. To myself (and at least a few others so far), titles aside, Mermaid is clearly an adaptation of it's source, and the newer film seems to be an almost completely original story from the start and hardly even recognizable to the fairy tale it's based on.

[Tangled]

Hi again boys, is that true that John Lasserter said that he doesn't want that Frozen will be a romantic story because only attract to little girls?.

I think it's a little absurd...

I don't know where he said that (I haven't exactly caught up with the boards either) but I'm under the impression that this film is probably going to be a lot like Tangled.

By that, I mean marketing targeted towards the lowest common denominator and then hiding the fact that it's a musical, traditional, romantic Disney fairy tale to the general public. They will probably try to hide all things to do with romance in trailers (which seems to be a recurring trend with animated movie trailers these days), but as far as I can tell, it will be a romantic fairy tale.

If they do market it like Tangled, INB4 half the comments on the Youtube upload of the trailer being about Frozen looking like Shrek, how it should have been in hand drawn animation and how Disney "is ruined" and I'll pretty much just be like

[Linden]

^Erm, so I haven't been following Frozen much. The Snow Queen is Anna or whatever her name's sister?!! Where do they come up with these ideas? I feel like they're either too creative with preexisting stories or not creative enough with original stories. Although Wreck-it Ralph was a step in the right direction.

No, Elsa(or however you spell it) is the Snow Queen. Anna is the sister who tries to help her older cold heart sister.

That's what I was saying, but in my weird roundabout way. It makes it seem like they're setting up for a supremely awful love triangle.

[qindarka]

No, Elsa(or however you spell it) is the Snow Queen. Anna is the sister who tries to help her older cold heart sister.

That's what I was saying, but in my weird roundabout way. It makes it seem like they're setting up for a supremely awful love triangle.

Nah, Lasseter has already said that romance won't be the focus of the story.

[Sotiris]

I think that's refreshing. I still would like there to be a romantic element but not as the focus of the narrative similar to Mulan or Lilo and Stitch.

[disneyprincess11]

I think that's refreshing. I still would like there to be a romantic element but not as the focus of the narrative similar to Mulan or Lilo and Stitch.

I know there will. There has to be a romance. It's a fairy tale. Remember how Tangled didn't show off the romance in the marketing? Well, I bet Frozen will be like that.

[Disney's Divinity]

I agree, it is refreshing. I only wish they’d saved it for another story, considering how romantic The Snow Queen could have been, imo.

I’m just very conflicted over the changes; I really like the sisters aspect (Disney very rarely acknowledges sibling relationships, particularly among female characters), but at the same time I couldn’t help imagining how romantic it would have been for a girl to travel across the globe to unfreeze a boy’s heart. I know Disney has had more powerful female characters over time, but their princesses are usually not they’re most powerful (and yet they’re the most influential, considering the DP line). Moreover, I was looking forward to the possibility of another strong villainess, particularly because the Snow Queen had a lot of potential to be one of their best if done right; Gothel was pretty weak for me, but villainesses are still more likely to be successful in their movies.

[qindarka]

I think that's refreshing. I still would like there to be a romantic element but not as the focus of the narrative similar to Mulan or Lilo and Stitch.

That would be ideal. Of course, Disney has somehow managed to sneak some romantic elements into Wreck-It-Ralph of all movies.

I agree, it is refreshing. I only wish they’d saved it for another story, considering how romantic The Snow Queen could have been, imo.

I’m just very conflicted over the changes; I really like the sisters aspect (Disney very rarely acknowledges sibling relationships, particularly among female characters), but at the same time I couldn’t help imagining how romantic it would have been for a girl to travel across the globe to unfreeze a boy’s heart. I know Disney has had more powerful female characters over time, but their princesses are usually not they’re most powerful (and yet they’re the most influential, considering the DP line). Moreover, I was looking forward to the possibility of another strong villainess, particularly because the Snow Queen had a lot of potential to be one of their best if done right; Gothel was pretty weak for me, but villainesses are still more likely to be successful in their movies.

For all I've been defending the changes, I somewhat agree with this. I too had similar ideas about a grand romance when the movie was announced and was miffed when it was changed into a tale of sibling love instead.

I do think that having an anti-villain is a good change of pace, considering that the vast majority of Disney villains are completely irredeemable, Long John Silver being the main exception.

And I am genuinely worried about the snowmen. I can already think of a number of ways they can mess this up.

[DisneyEra]

I think that's refreshing. I still would like there to be a romantic element but not as the focus of the narrative similar to Mulan or Lilo and Stitch.

That would be ideal. Of course, Disney has somehow managed to sneak some romantic elements into Wreck-It-Ralph of all movies.

I agree, it is refreshing. I only wish they’d saved it for another story, considering how romantic The Snow Queen could have been, imo.

I’m just very conflicted over the changes; I really like the sisters aspect (Disney very rarely acknowledges sibling relationships, particularly among female characters), but at the same time I couldn’t help imagining how romantic it would have been for a girl to travel across the globe to unfreeze a boy’s heart. I know Disney has had more powerful female characters over time, but their princesses are usually not they’re most powerful (and yet they’re the most influential, considering the DP line). Moreover, I was looking forward to the possibility of another strong villainess, particularly because the Snow Queen had a lot of potential to be one of their best if done right; Gothel was pretty weak for me, but villainesses are still more likely to be successful in their movies.

For all I've been defending the changes, I somewhat agree with this. I too had similar ideas about a grand romance when the movie was announced and was miffed when it was changed into a tale of sibling love instead.

I do think that having an anti-villain is a good change of pace, considering that the vast majority of Disney villains are completely irredeemable, Long John Silver being the main exception.

And I am genuinely worried about the snowmen. I can already think of a number of ways they can mess this up.

About the changes look at that russian wizart Snow Queen, that film has Greta & Kai, but there brother & sister! You have the main characters from the original fairy tale but there siblings?! And as for the snowmen, didn't someone who was at that convention say in a report that they had "spikes coming out of them & they looked very menacing". But if your thinking of Olaf, than I hear ya

[Sotiris]

And I am genuinely worried about the snowmen. I can already think of a number of ways they can mess this up.

I don't get why they have to be snowmen. Wouldn't it be cooler and more interesting if they had various monsters made of ice instead of snowmen?

[qindarka]

And I am genuinely worried about the snowmen. I can already think of a number of ways they can mess this up.

I don't get why they have to be snowmen. Wouldn't it be cooler and more interesting if they had various monsters made of ice instead of snowmen?

Not too concerned about that. I'm worried that they will seem tacked on to what should be the heart of the movie (the relationship between sisters). Also, the possibility of the climax boiling down to just an action sequence involving the snowmen. And the chance that the snowmen will emerge as the true villains, continuing to pose a threat even after Elsa is redeemed (presumed). Related to the last point, or some bullshit like Elsa having a change of heart and the snowmen turning against her and continuing to hold her hostage or shit like that.

[Polizzi]

And I am genuinely worried about the snowmen. I can already think of a number of ways they can mess this up.

I don't get why they have to be snowmen. Wouldn't it be cooler and more interesting if they had various monsters made of ice instead of snowmen?

A troll and crows based on the adaptation.

[thelittleursula]

I just realized this, but isn't this film coming out like a week later than the sequel to the Hunger Games, Catching Fire?

Geez Disney. You really need someone to schedule your release dates better.

Little Mermaid came out the same time as Don Bluth's All Dogs go to Heaven and Aladdin came out as Home Alone 1 or 2 and I think Terminator 2.

It should be fine. If people want to see the movie more so than anything else then it should conquer like LTM and Aladdin did.

[Linden]

That's what I was saying, but in my weird roundabout way. It makes it seem like they're setting up for a supremely awful love triangle.

Nah, Lasseter has already said that romance won't be the focus of the story.

Perfect! I obviously haven't been following it too much, but I remember way at the beginning, that there was supposed to be romance between the leads. I'm so glad that, at least, it won't be the focus. Knowing Disney, though, romance will still be included. I was trying to think of an example of a Disney movie with female (non-villainess) main characters that don't have a romantic interest. All I can think of are Alice, Lilo, Widow Tweed, both Pennys, Olivia, and Jenny. Nearly all of them are children. For some reason, Disney lets their male characters get away with it much more (Kenai, Jim, Ralph, Basil, Copper, Pinocchio, Kuzco, Quasimodo sort of, Bolt, Fflewddur, Cody, Baloo, Oliver, etc.). Ideally, I'd love Disney to do a movie about a woman and simply focus on her as an individual and not about her trying to find her soul mate. Disney's done it with their male characters. Why don't they ever try it with their ladies?

[qindarka]

Nah, Lasseter has already said that romance won't be the focus of the story.

Perfect! I obviously haven't been following it too much, but I remember way at the beginning, that there was supposed to be romance between the leads. I'm so glad that, at least, it won't be the focus. Knowing Disney, though, romance will still be included. I was trying to think of an example of a Disney movie with female (non-villainess) main characters that don't have a romantic interest. All I can think of are Alice, Lilo, Widow Tweed, both Pennys, Olivia, and Jenny. Nearly all of them are children. For some reason, Disney lets their male characters get away with it much more (Kenai, Jim, Ralph, Basil, Copper, Pinocchio, Kuzco, Quasimodo sort of, Bolt, Fflewddur, Cody, Baloo, Oliver, etc.). Ideally, I'd love Disney to do a movie about a woman and simply focus on her as an individual and not about her trying to find her soul mate. Disney's done it with their male characters. Why don't they ever try it with their ladies?

Doubt it's going to happen. Women in Hollywood (or in movies and fiction in general) are always put into romantic relationships. Men are still very much the default gender. Of course, men are very often put into romantic relationships as well but there generally tend to be more of them, given their default gender status, that some won't (especially side-characters).

Of course, this is unhealthy.

[qindarka]

I've found some posts from by someone whom I believe is an insider, or at least s/he claims to be.

"Frozen has been locked in for Thanksgiving 2013. It is behind schedule at the moment but Chris Buck is working hard to turn it around.

I've seen a couple of scenes and this feature will live and die on the relationship between the two leads (a mountaineer and a girl). The Snow Queen wasn't in any of the material I've seen. The dialog was a little clunky.

The music is by the Lopezes and will be their first serious feature at Disney (having done Winnie the Pooh and Finding Nemo The Musical). I've heard a couple of songs and they stuck with me.

I never thought that The Snow Queen was filmic material - the source material is pretty thin and depressing - we tried hard to make it work of the proposed musical at Tokyo DisneySea but it just didn't work. It is funny that we had 8 songs written by Menken for that production and now WDAS has hired a brand new songwriting team."

"That was the head scratcher for me too. I think Kai and Gerda have become Anna and Kristoff. Obviously they aren't the young kids from the novel.

The scenes I've been shown have a lot of comedy which seems out of place IMHO. The Snow Queen is a very dark tale and I'm not really sure why it is being repositioned as an action adventure / comedy. The CGI wasn't the best I've seen either - rather generic characters.

Happy to be proven wrong of course."

Source:http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-125146-P-3.asp
"

[disneyprincess11]

Ooooooh, so this could be a big critical failure? At least, the music is good. As for the "clunky" CGI, maybe it's not done yet?

[DisneyDude2010]

That seems fake!
I mean come on, He/She has no new knowledge and the stuff mentioned has already been made know via the web. + calling the cgi "clunky" I'm sorry but Disney would not have started fully animating the movie yet anyway, and why would it be "clunky" after the great cg animation in Tangled and WIR? It seems like a very unconvincing scoop tbh. +If they were an insider they would of know that Disney has released the title of one of the films songs !"