Frozen (formerly The Snow Queen) - Part II

[qindarka]

Enough talking Mister Lasseter, gimme the teaser now. Ralph is on the screens in a few hours, would be so easy to deliver something, even almost nothing, just a few shimmering snowflakes blowing on the OFFICIAL logo.... Back to the "Love" stuff : Ok, forget Anna and Kristoff ice skating and singing their affection and burning desire in a "Ma belle Evangeline" style. And forget the classical finale with Anna or Elsa wedding... But we will have more interesting and psychological matter instead. And maybe a beautiful finale Elsa-back-in her family kingdom-sisters reconciliation-real coronation-sunny spring glory.

It's 13 months away yet and there is still Monsters University to come out before then.

[disneyprincess11]

I'm looking forward to the day when Disney doesn't feel the need to act so apologetic for doing a fairy tale again. I really miss when they played up the fact that these were based on classic tales and were not all "don't worry boys, this isn't going to be like Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast, we've changed the title and some plot lines to make it "cool".

Couldn't agree more.

THIS ALL THE WAY! Lassenter needs to know that Disney or Clements/Musker etc. were never ashamed to do fairytales, and look at them today. But, I actually agree with the title change because this is nothing like the Snow Queen at all.

[Disney's Divinity]

(minor rant) I'm looking forward to the day when Disney doesn't feel the need to act so apologetic for doing a fairy tale again. I really miss when they played up the fact that these were based on classic tales and were not all "don't worry boys, this isn't going to be like Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast, we've changed the title and some plot lines to make it "cool".

Don't think they have really been changing plotlines to make it cool.

You keep thinking that.

DancingCrab: Completely agreed. It would be really nice if they made a movie without always thinking of demographics. There's nothing organic or creative about it.

I am just glad this wasn't made in the early 2000's or this would have turned into a Shrek like comedy.

I can't help thinking that a Wicked ripoff is hardly much better. At least less pop culture references, I guess.

[disneyprincess11]

Apparently, according to IMDB.com, Josh Gad, the original Elder Cunningham from Book of Mormon, is going to be Olaf! There's no confirmation/source, but if it's true, YES! I had a feeling that he or Andrew! from Book of Mormon was going to be Olaf! Really hope it's true!

[TsWade2]

Apparently, according to IMDB.com, Josh Gad, the original Elder Cunningham from Book of Mormon, is going to be Olaf! There's no confirmation/source, but if it's true, YES! I had a feeling that he or Andrew! from Book of Mormon was going to be Olaf! Really hope it's true!

LOL! That would be good.

[qindarka]

Wonder where this info comes from. Can't find anything on it elsewhere.

[estefan]

I hope it's true, but IMDb is not the best source for info on upcoming films. The website still lists Charles Martinet as voicing Mario and Luigi in Wreck-It Ralph.

[Tangled]

I just realized this, but isn't this film coming out like a week later than the sequel to the Hunger Games, Catching Fire?

Geez Disney. You really need someone to schedule your release dates better.

I mean, Wreck it Ralph was released at a good time. Sure, it may have James Bond to compete with, but I doubt many kids would choose Skyfall over Wreck it Ralph. Hunger Games is a distinguished franchise with a huge female and male fanbase of kids, teens and adults. Seriously, it seemed like every kid I knew went to see the first Hunger Games, regardless of age (which is horrible considering that it is a quite violent movie). Assuming the second movie will be just as popular (which with no doubt it probably will be), it will probably steal most of the people who would be interested in Frozen.

I guess Tangled did go up against Harry Potter and it was successful, but Harry Potter has arguably an older fanbase than Hunger Games and it's much harder to watch the 7th Harry Potter film without any prior knowledge of the franchise rather than with Catching as there has already been one prior film, and it's much easier to get caught on, and therefore more accessible to a wider audience.

It's OK to try and recreate the success of Tangled, but please don't put Frozen up against one of the most popular movie franchises to do so. Yes, it worked with Tangled, but it may not work again.

[estefan]

I decided to look at what was coming out around that time and to play devil's advocate here, it's going to be difficult for Disney to find a release date where they won't be faced with a lot of competition. On November 1, there's Mr Peabody & Sherman, following by Disney's own Thor: The Dark World the following week. As you said, there's The Hunger Games on the 22nd. The Hobbit Part II is on December 13 and Disney has another release the next week with Saving Mr Banks.

With all that in mind, if you were in Disney's position, when would you release Frozen (or maybe shift Thor and Mr Banks)?

[ajmrowland]

I just realized this, but isn't this film coming out like a week later than the sequel to the Hunger Games, Catching Fire?

Geez Disney. You really need someone to schedule your release dates better.

I mean, Wreck it Ralph was released at a good time. Sure, it may have James Bond to compete with, but I doubt many kids would choose Skyfall over Wreck it Ralph. Hunger Games is a distinguished franchise with a huge female and male fanbase of kids, teens and adults. Seriously, it seemed like every kid I knew went to see the first Hunger Games, regardless of age (which is horrible considering that it is a quite violent movie). Assuming the second movie will be just as popular (which with no doubt it probably will be), it will probably steal most of the people who would be interested in Frozen.

I guess Tangled did go up against Harry Potter and it was successful, but Harry Potter has arguably an older fanbase than Hunger Games and it's much harder to watch the 7th Harry Potter film without any prior knowledge of the franchise rather than with Catching as there has already been one prior film, and it's much easier to get caught on, and therefore more accessible to a wider audience.

It's OK to try and recreate the success of Tangled, but please don't put Frozen up against one of the most popular movie franchises to do so. Yes, it worked with Tangled, but it may not work again.

It's always been there pattern to offer frightened parents an alternative. they know #1 at the BO in a weekend doesnt automatically mean success but Tthat's why they chose that weekend and not the same date. Also the holidays are a very competitive market for DVD releases and theatrical, so it's harder to stay afloat, but that's why Frankenweenie, Cloud Atlas, and Hotel Transylvania were autumn releases. No competition, no problem.

[Sotiris]

We also saw some production design drawings and concept art for Disney’s big 2013 release, Frozen, which is loosely based on Hans Christian Andersen’s “The Snow Queen”, starring Idina Menzel and Kristen Bell as two sisters, one of whom becomes the Snow Queen. It looks gorgeous, and the portion of the studio where it’s being made is currently undergoing transformation into a winter wonderland. The Disney execs feel that the environment helps the animators to make a better film, and I think they’re right.

Source: http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2012/10/a- ... epartment/

Frozen has been locked in for Thanksgiving 2013. It is behind schedule at the moment but Chris Buck is working hard to turn it around.

I've seen a couple of scenes and this feature will live and die on the relationship between the two leads (a mountaineer and a girl). The Snow Queen wasn't in any of the material I've seen. The dialog was a little clunky.

The music is by the Lopezes and will be their first serious feature at Disney (having done Winnie the Pooh and Finding Nemo The Musical). I've heard a couple of songs and they stuck with me.

I never thought that The Snow Queen was filmic material - the source material is pretty thin and depressing - we tried hard to make it work of the proposed musical at Tokyo DisneySea but it just didn't work. It is funny that we had 8 songs written by Menken for that production and now WDAS has hired a brand new songwriting team.

I think Kai and Gerda have become Anna and Kristoff. Obviously they aren't the young kids from the novel.

The scenes I've been shown have a lot of comedy which seems out of place IMHO. The Snow Queen is a very dark tale and I'm not really sure why it is being repositioned as an action adventure / comedy. The CGI wasn't the best I've seen either - rather generic characters.

Source: http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-125146-P-3.asp

At the D23 event for DFA's 75th anniversary they offered several visuals, which we were not allowed to photograph. The most "comical" character that is being introduced is Olaf, a snowman/sidekick. The idea is that he is a first creation of the new Snow Queen, so he's kind of half-baked (or half-frozen). He is clearly intended to be so gosh darned cute and dopey that there is a real danger he will be this film's Jar Jar Binks.

Source: http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-125146-P-4.asp

The animation was unspectacular - characters were very ordinary-looking. I was surprised that they didn't look Scandinavian (I think the story is set in Finland). The relationship reminded me of Rapunzel and Flynn Rider - two individuals drawn together who wouldn't ordinarily be friends etc. The comedy was also very Tangled-esque. The dialog just felt stilted and forced.

It is always tough to tell when you only see a handful of scenes but it looked very uninspired to me. It will be 18 months between what we were shown and the final product so there is plenty of time to turn it around.

When you are saying that animation is unspectacular, is it only about the character designs? Surely it would be too early to judge the quality of the actual animation 18 months before release.

Character designs - the backgrounds were fine - although I'm not sure you can go wrong with tundra.

It isn't too early. This movie has been in development for years - I'd be very surprised if the character design changed substantially between June 2012 and November 2013. I saw completed Tangled animation over 2 years before its release - and those character designs didn't change.

Just because it is a CG movie rather than hand-drawn does not mean that they can make significant changes during production - there is too much riding on getting the movie finished from marketing to consumer products to the parks.

Source: http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-125146-P-5.asp

[Linden]

^Erm, so I haven't been following Frozen much. The Snow Queen is Anna or whatever her name's sister?!! Where do they come up with these ideas? I feel like they're either too creative with preexisting stories or not creative enough with original stories. Although Wreck-it Ralph was a step in the right direction.

[Super Aurora]

^Erm, so I haven't been following Frozen much. The Snow Queen is Anna or whatever her name's sister?!! Where do they come up with these ideas? I feel like they're either too creative with preexisting stories or not creative enough with original stories. Although Wreck-it Ralph was a step in the right direction.

No, Elsa(or however you spell it) is the Snow Queen. Anna is the sister who tries to help her older cold heart sister.

[qindarka]

Really though, the changes seem pretty straightforward to me. What they have done is basically combine the characters of Kai and The Snow Queen, which is not that problematic given that The Snow Queen didn't have much of a character in the first place in the original fairy tale. The essential story of a girl going on a journey to rescue a loved one and using their love to redeem him/her remains. Of course, there were the religious themes which Disney were unlikely to incorporate anyway and much of Gerda's journey (the robber girl, the King who looked like Kai) has been changed. Yet I think the core of it remains.

Not saying that it is in any way faithful but that ship sailed a long, long time ago and it at least looks like it will include some of the themes of the source material, which is more that can be said about Disney's adaptations of stuff such as The Jungle Book and The Little Mermaid which had only superficial resemblances to their sources.

P.S I have no beef with either The Jungle Book or The Little Mermaid. Don't take that as a criticism.

[DancingCrab]

I don't know, Mermaid had more in common with it's source than this seems to have. Mermaid really only severely went off in a new direction for the final parts of the movie.

[qindarka]

I don't know, Mermaid had more in common with it's source than this seems to have. Mermaid really only severely went off in a new direction for the final parts of the movie.

That's what I meant about the superficial resemblances. The Little Mermaid may have the bare bones of the source such as a mermaid, her desire to marry a prince and the sea-witch yet the heart of the film is entirely different. The original version concerned such themes as self-sacrifice and the nature of the soul whereas Disney's version is essentially the story of a relationship between a daughter and her father, something completely absent in the surce material.

In the case of Frozen, I know that turning The Snow Queen into an anti-villain who needs to be redeemed may seem a very drastic change, but I believe Elsa is representing Kai more so than the Snow Queen from Andersen's version.

[Disney's Divinity]

I don't know, Mermaid had more in common with it's source than this seems to have. Mermaid really only severely went off in a new direction for the final parts of the movie.

That's what I meant about the superficial resemblances. The Little Mermaid may have the bare bones of the source such as a mermaid, her desire to marry a prince and the sea-witch yet the heart of the film is entirely different. The original version concerned such themes as self-sacrifice and the nature of the soul whereas Disney's version is essentially the story of a relationship between a daughter and her father, something completely absent in the surce material.

That's really stretching, imo. One of the themes is sacrifice, of course (a theme that is present in the Disney film, if only in minor ways), but the story was also about women's experience in a patriarchal world. The Disney film is also about that, perhaps more than any other Disney film. I agree with DC that the only drastic change is the ending (and, I would say, the Sea Witch becoming a villain), which is nothing like the major changes made to this story.

[DancingCrab]

I don't know, Mermaid had more in common with it's source than this seems to have. Mermaid really only severely went off in a new direction for the final parts of the movie.

That's what I meant about the superficial resemblances. The Little Mermaid may have the bare bones of the source such as a mermaid, her desire to marry a prince and the sea-witch yet the heart of the film is entirely different. The original version concerned such themes as self-sacrifice and the nature of the soul whereas Disney's version is essentially the story of a relationship between a daughter and her father, something completely absent in the surce material.

In the case of Frozen, I know that turning The Snow Queen into an anti-villain who needs to be redeemed may seem a very drastic change, but I believe Elsa is representing Kai more so than the Snow Queen from Andersen's version.

The Little Mermaid has more pivotal plot twists directly from Andersen's tale than just that though. Her rescuing the prince from drowning and trading her voice to the witch for human legs to be with him are still part of the main plotline too. The father/daughter relationship in the Disney film is just an added side story. It's untrue to say the only similarities are superficial, when it is crystal clear the movie is based on Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale.

Reading that outline of Frozen, had I not been keeping up with it's development and had they left out that it was based on The Snow Queen, I would never have made a connection between the two stories.

[Atlantica]

I haven't caught up with the whole thread, but could this be the reason why it has been renamed 'Frozen', due to the fact of it being so different from the original story ? I beg your pardon if I have got the wrong end of the stick.

[partofdisneyworld]

Hi again boys, is that true that John Lasserter said that he doesn't want that Frozen will be a romantic story because only attract to little girls?.

I think it's a little absurd...