Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

qindarka · Post by **qindarka** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:58 am

Sotiris wrote:While I understand that a hand-drawn feature is deemed too financially risky to be pursued, I don't get why they have stopped producing hand-drawn shorts. It would have given traditional animators work to do and it would function as a forum where the medium could be explored and advanced. It would have kept 2D alive at Disney without having to worry about box office numbers.

Out of the 7 shorts (excluding the Prep & Landing ones) produced under the Lasseter administration, only 2 of them were hand-drawn. And it looks like there aren't any more in development. There's really no excuse for that.

Speaking of Prep & Landing, that was a project that could have easily been produced in 2D. It was a low-risk project that had a small budget. In fact, 2D would have been ideal to create the nostalgic, intimate feeling and atmosphere that Christmas specials have.

Maybe they want to train the animators for CG animation? I've no idea, really.

SWillie! · Post by **SWillie!** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:02 am

Sotiris wrote:While I understand that a hand-drawn feature is deemed too financially risky to be pursued, I don't get why they have stopped producing hand-drawn shorts. It would have given traditional animators work to do and it would function as a forum where the medium could be explored and advanced. It would have kept 2D alive at Disney without having to worry about box office numbers.

The best excuse I can think of for this is that they supposedly use the shorts as a sort of training ground for younger artists. If there are no 2D features planned for the foreseeable future, then there is no need to train younger 2D animators.

That said, keep Paperman in mind. The 2D artists have been kept busy exploring this new medium.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:07 am

SWillie! wrote:That said, keep Paperman in mind. The 2D artists have been kept busy exploring this new medium.

They are also working on CG features by drawing over the CG animation, like Glen Keane did with Tangled. Still, I don't think that's enough.

TsWade2 · Post by **TsWade2** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:08 am

I guess there won't be a 2D movie about Mickey Mouse after all. They did cancel it.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:10 am

Late for the party, here.

This news does not surprise me. And to be honest, I'm not as heartbroken about it as I was the first time Disney announced the end to hand-drawn animation back in 2003.

I would LOVE to return to a time when audiences looked forward to Disney's next move. Last year's re-release of The Lion King proves that people still love the Disney spirit. But the problem is, life has changed significantly since 1994. Disney no longer has a monopoly on animated features, largely as a result of their failure to nurture their own crew, both in management and their production teams. So now they're still playing catch-up with at least FOUR different competitors in a medium that has already been conquered by Pixar and DreamWorks.

Tangled was significant, because not only was it Disney's first major success in CGI, it was also the studio's first major animation triumph since Lilo & Stitch. Sure, the film could've been different in many ways, as is the case with many animated features. Although there were some structural similarities to past Disney films, it didn't feel as if they were latching on to nostalgia, or contemporary gimmicks like the ads and trailers suggested. Despite everything, the film turned out great, which by itself is the true miracle.

As for Disney's hand-drawn features, the reason why I'm more indifferent to this news is because, the studio doesn't seem serious about getting back into the game. They just can't seem to do hand-drawn anymore without it being a serious callback to the studio's past glories. I liked The Princess and the Frog, but there was just a feeling that it could've or SHOULD've been better. Winnie the Pooh was fine, but was Pooh in desperate need of a reboot? Then there were the two shorts: How to Hook Up Your Home Theater and The Ballad of Nessie. Both okay, but still too many callbacks.

It would seem the only way Disney can get serious with hand-drawn features is if they try things that have NEVER been done before. They would need to get past their compulsion to recycle footage, styles, and stories from past films and try for a completely different style. Maybe not the elaborate "painterly" technique, but something that can grab the audiences' attention while finding new ways to nurture traditional artists. They'd have to NOT squeeze out any "maverick" ideas, and upon completion, STICK WITH IT, rather than deny it ever existed.

One silver lining in Disney's CGI endeavors is that now they're more compelled to explore new terrain. No more recycled footage. No more copying past studio styles. Now they HAVE to start coming up with newer ideas if they hope to survive.

TsWade2 · Post by **TsWade2** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:21 am

I guess this is the end of 2d. Farewell 2D. We won't forget you.

Let's have a moment of silence:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HKx9wOVFfYw?rel=0" frameborder="0"></iframe>

thelittleursula · Post by **thelittleursula** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:52 am

Where's the nearest pub ? I think I need to get go drunk that I can't walk straight and remember my own name and then just cry and cry and then just pig out so much chocolate that tastes salty because of the tears, and then get drunk again while crying even louder while now digging into the Ice Cream while not feeling any better at all...

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:01 am

SWillie! wrote:
Disney's Divinity wrote:I'm sorry--"uneducated"? Just because someone does not give Lasseter's name a tongue bath every time he's mentioned does not make them uneducated.
If you don't like the decisions he's made getting there, that's fine- like I said, he need not be worshipped. But don't act as if he's about to "get the boot" any day now, because he still one of the most valuable assets the company has, regardless of your personal opinions. Anyone educated on the matter can see that. As I said above, can't we for once TRY to be objective about this? It makes for a much more interesting and worthwhile conversation.

As far as I know...nobody said or pretended he was about to get the boot. ProfessorRatigan was just expressing his hope that he would get the boot. The problem is that when you express any opinion--on a discussion board!--you are always biased, so there's no need to be surprised about it.

If it's any consolation, I don't personally consider Lasseter the cause of this hand-drawn animation "death." I think it's a combination of a lot of authorities at Disney. But I agree with Sotiris, that this attitude that "Oh, they'll use hand-drawn animation again when the story suits the medium" is complete nonsense. We know the story has nothing to do with the medium decisions.

That said, I've been resigned to it for a while, ever since the corp. heads at Disney were unsatisfied with TP&TF's earnings in the first month or two of its release.

Semaj wrote:One silver lining in Disney's CGI endeavors is that now they're more compelled to explore new terrain. No more recycled footage. No more copying past studio styles. Now they HAVE to start coming up with newer ideas if they hope to survive.

I don't really agree with that. Wasn't Rapunzel a carbon copy of Ariel/Glen Keane's style, despite being 3D? Also, this is coming off the '90s, where Disney probably explored more new terrain stylistically.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:32 am

Tangled while entertaining, felt very derivative of previous Disney animated movies. Especially of The Little Mermaid and Beauty & the Beast. It certainly didn't break any new ground in terms of storytelling; only in terms of CG animation.

qindarka · Post by **qindarka** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:59 am

Sotiris wrote:Tangled while entertaining, felt very derivative of previous Disney animated movies. Especially of The Little Mermaid and Beauty & the Beast. It certainly didn't break any new ground in terms of storytelling; only in terms of CG animation.

How was it similar to Beauty and the Beast?

PatrickvD · Post by **PatrickvD** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:26 am

qindarka wrote:
Sotiris wrote:Tangled while entertaining, felt very derivative of previous Disney animated movies. Especially of The Little Mermaid and Beauty & the Beast. It certainly didn't break any new ground in terms of storytelling; only in terms of CG animation.
How was it similar to Beauty and the Beast?

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:40 am

jazzflower92 wrote:I know Lassetor is not perfect but come on stop treating him like he is the AntiChrist.Heck,most fans don't know everything that goes back doors in productions.John Lassetor has to face other people when it comes to making movies as well.He has his flaws but don't make out to be some dark evil overlord.

this. We should all direct our anger at Bob Iger.jk

but seriously, not even this topic confirms 2D is dead at Disney. Never said so in the title or first Post. We're all acting like the Republicans did when Obama got elected in '08.

Well, at least the south park version of it.

disneyprincess11 · Post by **disneyprincess11** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:51 am

But, wait. Doesn't it say that Clements and Musker's next movie will be handrawn? Isn't going to be like the next Disney short: 2D/CGI?

Anyway, yeah, it's really disappointing that Disney has tore down 2D. I think it's ridiculous that just becaus PatF and WtP's numbers didn't meet their expectations, doesn't mean they have to cancel 2D. If it wasn't for 2D, Disney would not be here. And that Mickey Mouse movie? C'MON! We need Mickey. All we have are that Disney Channel, and it's slowly going downhill. We have no Mickey and that upsets me. Little kids only see him from WDW and MMCH, and they only think he's from those when he's much more and they'll probrably never know the truth about him because of the lack of Mickey. Walt is rolling in his grave.

DisneyJedi · Post by **DisneyJedi** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:10 am

I really do doubt they'd just go and call it quits on hand-drawn. People assumed stop-motion was a thing of the past, but look what happened! We got Pirates! Band of Misfits, ParaNorman and, of course, Frankenweenie. And all in the same year!

Okay, stop motion and hand-drawn are two different mediums, but you get the idea.

DisneyFan09 · Post by **DisneyFan09** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:40 am

And I thought Lasseter was supposed to do the company some good, not destroying it.

qindarka · Post by **qindarka** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:45 am

DisneyFan09 wrote:And I thought Lasseter was supposed to do the company some good, not destroying it.

For goodness sake, not having hand-drawn films is somehow destroying the company?

SWillie! · Post by **SWillie!** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:47 am

disneyprincess11 wrote:But, wait. Doesn't it say that Clements and Musker's next movie will be handrawn? Isn't going to be like the next Disney short: 2D/CGI?

It would seem that everyone is ignoring this for some reason. Yes, it does say that. I've been saying for months that for the foreseeable future, Disney's future in hand drawn animation will be created with this hybrid technique. Hand drawn is NOT dead, it's just different.

disneyboy20022 · Post by **disneyboy20022** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:54 am

TsWade2 wrote:I guess there won't be a 2D movie about Mickey Mouse after all. They did cancel it.

Perhaps it will be CGI/3D

Although one thing with Disney of the 21st Century, they don't know the meaning of the word Consistency

Regarding the Conspiracy,

OK, My mind goes coo coo after watching a WWE Friday Night Smackdown Conspiracy Theory type of Plot. I apologize.

Still, Bob Iger and John Lasseter need to quit thinking like Michael Eisner and about Green Paper. They need to get their rear ends in line and think WWWD (What would Walt Do) and listen to their fans.

qindarka · Post by **qindarka** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:05 am

disneyboy20022 wrote:
TsWade2 wrote:I guess there won't be a 2D movie about Mickey Mouse after all. They did cancel it.
Perhaps it will be CGI/3D

Although one thing with Disney of the 21st Century, they don't know the meaning of the word Consistency

Regarding the Conspiracy,

OK, My mind goes coo coo after watching a WWE Friday Night Smackdown Conspiracy Theory type of Plot. I apologize.

Still, Bob Iger and John Lasseter need to quit thinking like Michael Eisner and about Green Paper. They need to get their rear ends in line and think WWWD (What would Walt Do) and listen to their fans.

Listen do their fans? Don't you mean listen to you and those who think like you only? We are a minority here, why should they listen to us?

DisneyJedi · Post by **DisneyJedi** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:39 am

disneyboy20022 wrote:
TsWade2 wrote:I guess there won't be a 2D movie about Mickey Mouse after all. They did cancel it.
Perhaps it will be CGI/3D

Still, Bob Iger and John Lasseter need to quit thinking like Michael Eisner and about Green Paper. They need to get their rear ends in line and think WWWD (What would Walt Do) and listen to their fans.

But I don't want a CG Mickey movie! I want a hand-drawn one and I want it now!

Anyways, one of my College Program roommates did say they probably won't do any more entirely hand-drawn movies (in the sense of Snow White), but they would be drawn with everything else (ie: colors and background or something like that) done digitally.

My bottom line is that they could be waiting for the right project idea to do in 2D to come along.

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Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney