Every major Disney DVD should have 2 separate editions.

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Ciaobelli
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Every major Disney DVD should have 2 separate editions.

Post by Ciaobelli »

They should have a dvd for the kids (which is what we get now)

then a serious versions for people that would like to know a little more about the movie.

I mean who whatches the making of "circle of life" music video??? Who watches the virtual wonderland party? Seriously, who?
I'm getting tired of getting mostly worthless features for movies I grew up with and love. Snow White got the Platinums off to a good start, but it all went downhill from there. The latest Lion King 2 SE dvd. 2 discs and not a single feature that is useful to anyone above 6 years old.

sorry for the rant but I had to get it out :(

please comment on my rant
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Post by Disney Guru »

That is just your opinion. I personally love the special features. Because I enjoy playing them I admit it. I might be 17 but I am still Young At Heart.
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Post by Ciaobelli »

I'm happy to hear that you enjoy them. Sorry if I might have offended you. I think though that they should also include some more in depth documentaries, making ofs and stuff like that.
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Post by Luke »

Separate releases just wouldn't be profitable for Disney, or us. Since Disney attempts to satisfy both kids and adults as it is, both audiences get something. And there are certain extras, like Virtual Safari or Who Wants To Be King of the Jungle which designed for children are entertaining to all. For Disney to make separate versions would just cost more money, take more time, and confuse customers. And we'd get less extras and we'd be missing out on extras. Not a great idea at all, really. But I think the good idea is more substantial extras (i.e. beyond the "Family" stuff that Disney heavily promotes)...which I don't think any of us would disagree with.
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Post by reyquila »

Ciaobelli wrote:I'm happy to hear that you enjoy them. Sorry if I might have offended you. I think though that they should also include some more in depth documentaries, making ofs and stuff like that.
I agree my dear !!
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Post by yoda_four »

Ciaobelli, our minds run exactly in synch! :P I agree, the Platinums have been going downhill, not severely, but of lesser quality.

I don't know why Disney scrapped their idea of having a Standard and Collector's version of a movie like in early 2000. It was perfect, plus the CEs were packed with useful info about production. Did I mention they were without faults in presentation as well! I wish they still did this, then we wouldn't be double dipping on ME, SE, No-Names, Golds.....

If I were the President of DVD Production at Buena Vista, I would immediately re-implement this. EG: The "Standard" or "Kiddy
Alice in WOnderland would include all the child's fluff and games with maybe a 20 min. making-of featurette. THe CE would be packed with all the cool stuff like extensive making-ofs, still galleries, audio commentaries; everything the Archive Laserdisc had plus more. I mean, c'mon, get some interviews with cast and the Nine Old Men while they're still with us!

I agree with the notion that you shouldn't pack a DVD just to try and beat the LOTR:EE DVDs. If the bonus features suits the film its accompanying, that's all fine and dandy. Great we get something! But why not push to the max, to the best you can do for a masterpiece like Snow White. I think the DVD Producers did a wonderful job with SW, but they could've done even more. ANd remeber, cast and crew are ever-dying; so do it NOW and they won't need to do anything more!

Kinda went a lil off topic, but "rant over". What I'd like to know is, what would you guys like included on a DVD such as Alice or SW? What we have; does it suit its accompanying film, or should more effort have been put into the set?
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yoda_four wrote: What I'd like to know is, what would you guys like included on a DVD such as Alice or SW? What we have; does it suit its accompanying film, or should more effort have been put into the set?
Haha, I'm sure most people know how I feel about the Alice DVD, but I'll reitterate myself. Disney had the opportunity to make an amazing 2-Disc set (from what I understand, many people considered the laserdisc to be one of the best of all time for any film), but they cheaped out. I would've liked to have seen new retrospective features on the making of the film. The current DVD is quite good, but is essentially just a collection of promotional features from the film's release (with the exception of song demos and the gallery). Kathryn Beaumont is alive and well and loves participating in anything Disney has in store for her. They had her introduce two of the song demos which was great, but how about a real "making of" featurette? Alice had one of the most fascinating behind-the-scenes dramas in Disney animation. They could have gone in-depth explaining this. Kathryn did a special interview for a Disney animation convention a few years ago (I think it was to promote a new line of Alice figurines for WDCC). How about putting that on the DVD? We only got 59 stills in the gallery. The laserdisc had hundreds of pieces ranging from concept art, storyboards, production photos, and more. How about a commentary track, as well? Alice marks the first time a 2-Disc Disney DVD is missing a commentary track. They could mix and match like they did with Sleeping Beauty - Edit comments by people who worked on the film as well as people who simply admire it and have a film historian fill in the gaps and host it. There was also live action footage shot for the film for reference. Where is it? It can't be lost because I read somewhere that some footage appeared on the laserdic. And what about all the song demos created for it? Because of its endless story revisions, dozens of songs were written for the film (approximately 20, I believe), yet only 6 (7 if you include the Laughing Sky featurette) appear on DVD. Then there's the radio broadcasts done for the film, as well as audition tapes done by Kathryn. Surely all of this can fit on Disc Two (Snow White had about as much material as described here yet it all fit comfortably, so Disney can't use disc space as an excuse not to port over materials). Some people, like Jim Hill, have tried defending this by saying the Masterpiece Edition is not for film enthusiasts but for all age groups. Excuse me? I don't think children care about double dipping on a title just to get some more kiddie games like the Virtual Wonderland Party. Double dipping is meant for fans of the film, not for soccer moms. Make the soccer moms get the crappy Gold Collection disc, then, if in-depth bonus material aggravates them so. It seems Disney is getting this right, though, with their future specials editions (such as Mulan, Pocahontas, and Lilo, all three of which will have nice, in-depth features. With the case of Pocahontas, EVERYTHING from the laserdisc is being ported over). And now I'm hearing rumors that Disney plans on starting up a new line of discs meant strictly for film enthusiasts, based on their Archive laserdiscs. Can we say money grubbing? "Oh, don't make the devoted fan double dip. ALL studios make them double dip. Let's make them TRIPLE dip, instead!" When Disney does something right, they're freaking amazing but when they do something half-heartedly to gain profits, we fans end up with the short straw.

Ok, yeah, this post has been one (huge) vent. ::breathes:: But, hey, you asked. ;)
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Post by yoda_four »

Disneykid wrote:And now I'm hearing rumors that Disney plans on starting up a new line of discs meant strictly for film enthusiasts, based on their Archive laserdiscs. Can we say money grubbing? "Oh, don't make the devoted fan double dip. ALL studios make them double dip. Let's make them TRIPLE dip, instead!"
I heard of this as well... If Disney did restart the Archives Collection, on DVD or perhaps HD-DVD, and included ALL their Animated Classics, I for one, would be more than glad to 2x/3x dip on the film in question. From what I hear, DIsney really went practically all out (though not everything one can conjure, like Disneykid wrote) on their Archives LDs, with Alice and Pocahontas. With Grade A+ presentation of the film and EXTENSIVE worthwhile Bonus Features, who wouldn't? It would be wonderful if Disney actually did do this, as I'm sure many of you will agree with me, cause there'd be plenty of Disney fans, DVD Collectors, and Film Historians that would snatch them up, even if they were a limited release like the Treasures. If these really were the DEFINITIVE, Emptying the Vaults, Disney DVD releases, I don't really see why one wouldn't buy them up, unless you're broke....

BUt, I can where you're coming from Kelvin, (can I call you that?) as I also sure many agree with you. Double dipping is quite annoying, but at least Alice isn't in the same boat as Kill Bill (kinda ironic, as Disney owns Miramax, so they are technically "in the same boat")
Disneykid wrote:When Disney does something right, they're freaking amazing but when they do something half-heartedly to gain profits, we fans end up with the short straw.
Wonderfully said! And true, BTW!
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Post by 2099net »

Disneykid wrote:When Disney does something right, they're freaking amazing but when they do something half-heartedly to gain profits, we fans end up with the short straw.
But how much extra profits do they gain by releasing these half-hearted discs. Remember, the production costs of the extra supplements are minor when you consider the same supplements appear on the discs worldwide. Plus in Alice's case, most of the supplements we complain about no getting were already made and available. There really is no excuse, and money shouldn't come into it. They could afford the money for that stupid Wonderland Party.

Disney literally sell millions each DVD worldwide. Disney reportedly spent $200m on promoting all three Lion King DVDs. To put that in perspective, assuming Disney keep $5 from every DVD sold, they need to sell 40m discs before they even break even!

Think about that. Worldwide 40 million Lion King discs have to be sold before Disney break even (I'm pretty sure the $5 figure is about right when distribution, retail margin, rights, manufacturing, design etc are taken out of the picture).

Would it really trouble Disney financially to take a million or two out of that absoutely obscene marketing budget and move it to the DVD production budget? Would sales dramatically slump if Disney spent only $198m on marketing? Would the people who bought the discs be happier if an extra 2m or so was spent on making truely definitive discs?

As an aside, I think one of the best DVD releases I own is The League of Gentlemen Series 3. You most likely wouldn't have heard of it as its a cult UK comedy which doesn't really travel well. Last I heard, this 2 disc set had sold around 150,000 copies. That's all. Its the sort of figures Buena Vista would laugh at, or simply ignore totally. Compared to projected worldwide sales for the 2 disc Alice release, it's nothing. Yes this 2 disc set is crammed full of supplements - all especially shot or recorded for the DVD - commentary, video diaries, a making of documentary, an edit your own sequence, a 20 minute easter egg, an interview with the costume designer, storyboards, deleted scenes, out-takes. And it's all informative. We literally follow the series through from the cast sitting down at computers with blank screens and writring the series (and we also see several instances of writer's block) to the cast reading the reviews in the paper the day after the first episode of the series aired. It really is an amazing disc, and everything on it enhances your enjoyment of the series.

And they spent all this time and effort on a DVD which as sold around 150,000 copies. And people claim Disney can't afford to make decent discs because it eats into the profits? :roll:
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Post by yoda_four »

2099net wrote:As an aside, I think one of the best DVD releases I own is The League of Gentlemen Series 3. You most likely wouldn't have heard of it as its a cult UK comedy which doesn't really travel well. Last I heard, this 2 disc set had sold around 150,000 copies. That's all. Its the sort of figures Buena Vista would laugh at, or simply ignore totally. Compared to projected worldwide sales for the 2 disc Alice release, it's nothing. Yes this 2 disc set is crammed full of supplements - all especially shot or recorded for the DVD - commentary, video diaries, a making of documentary, an edit your own sequence, a 20 minute easter egg, an interview with the costume designer, storyboards, deleted scenes, out-takes. And it's all informative. We literally follow the series through from the cast sitting down at computers with blank screens and writring the series (and we also see several instances of writer's block) to the cast reading the reviews in the paper the day after the first episode of the series aired. It really is an amazing disc, and everything on it enhances your enjoyment of the series.
Now that's what I call TV On DVD! Holy Crap! Wish every studio would do that! They could certainly up the price a bit with all that on the menu!

Yes, 2099net, I agree. Disney should and can easily make better DVDs, but sadly thats not the case. I just dont know whats gonna turn this company around. WALT! We need another, Walt!
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Post by Loomis »

Luke wrote:Separate releases just wouldn't be profitable for Disney, or us.
Yet they will also re-release a DVD every few years with "new exciting features" (this year alone sees re-releases of Mulan, Lion King 2, Alice in Wonderland, Pinocchio (here & the UK) among others).

And they have engaged in dual releases before.

Take The Emperor's New Groove , Tarzan , Atlantis and Dinosaur as examples. Quite possibly four of the best special editions (the 2-disc versions, that is) that have come out of Disney. With the exception of Tarzan (which came out only a few MONTHS after the single disc), they have all been released simultaneously with the single disc versions (which for the most part just contained the kiddie extras only, and a more brightly coloured cover).

So Disney have shown they can do it, but just as quickly stopped. As 2099net points out, surely some of the baffling marketing budget could be spent on making a better collector's DVD - even if it is in limited numbers for the "fans and big people".

So, in short, I simply don't buy the "money" issue for lack of a better DVD either. And I also think that if Disney are going to continue to release kiddie-geared DVDs, they will probably lose more sales in the long run than they gain.
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Post by Ciaobelli »

yoda_four wrote: Kinda went a lil off topic, but "rant over". What I'd like to know is, what would you guys like included on a DVD such as Alice or SW? What we have; does it suit its accompanying film, or should more effort have been put into the set?
It is very very simple. Simply go to Pixar and ask them "how do I make a decent dvd?" And there you go, even if somehow even Pixar is going slowly down.

Recently I got Bugs life CE and Ulimate Toy Box, those are serious DVDs. Making ofs, storyboard comparisons, awsome commentaries, background of the story.....
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Post by Disneykid »

Yoda: Sure, you can call me Kelvin. :D I also see where you're coming from about willingly triple dipping if you knew that the 3rd time would be the definitive charm. I'll admit it: If Disney were to re-release Alice (again) on DVD with everything I mentioned in my epic rant, I'd triple dip for that thing in an instant and be 100% satisfied with it. It just bugs me that Disney would make people triple dip just because they're so obsessive about catering to every demographic. The first release was for kids, the second was part kid and part film fan, so they'll finally stop teasing us and go all out on the third one? Talk about being taken advantage of.

Netty: Perhaps your post is just generalized and not really aimed at me, but I actually agree with you. I honestly don't think Disney would lose profits from spending a tad more on supplements. I just meant that Disney is so money conscious that they would use money as an excuse not to produce more extras for their DVD's, even though we all know that's bull.

As for Pixar DVD's slowly going downhill (starting with Nemo), I don't blame that on Pixar as much as I blame it on Disney. Why? Well, if the whole 1 disc for kids, 1 for fans was Pixar's idea, then doesn't it seem suspicious that now virtually every Disney 2-Disc (Brother Bear, Princess Diaries, etc.) is following this pattern? I think Disney made Pixar follow that route because they figured that since Nemo was such a monumental hit, more families would purchase this than usual, therefore they needed to make it more "family friendly". I just hope The Incredibles fares better as a DVD than Nemo did.
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Post by 2099net »

Yeah, it was just a general comment, but I've seen it mentioned here and at a few other places quite often.

Looking at how many copies of the Lion King that were sold (er actually I don't know what this is, but the Lion King 1 1/2 has sold excess of 6m, so lets call the Lion King Platinum Edition 10m). Now Disney only needs to sell 1 in 10 as being a "super special edition" or whatever and it's sold 1m copies.

Remember when selling 1m copies of The Matrix was considered a milestone? It is absolutely worth Disney spending the money on extra, special supplements for older collectors. They should have put an extra disc in the Gift Set (and the Aladdin one too). Even after paying for extra content (which would most likely be archive programmes anyway - such as the original Lion King TV making of special) sales of 1m or more units would ensure they made an additional profit. There's lots of films from smaller distributors which have perfectly good discs with lots of supplements (such as Lions Gate) where they would be pleased to get sales of 1m units.
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Post by Ciaobelli »

So basically there is no reason for Disney not to make more decent DVDs.

I WANT MY EXTRAS!!!!
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Post by deathie mouse »

Yeah I agree

Even tho the Laserdisc market was minuscule compared to "mainstrean" VHS and today's DVDs, they REALLY crammed those Special Editions with stuff (and not only Disney, for example look at the Deluxe Special Edition MGM did for That's Entertainment III) so if they could do it with such a small market they can within today's bigger market. At minimum they should include all the extras already done in the previous formats, (apart from re-release right's issues) it's not that they have to spend any $$$ creating them. (If they can use an old Composite video master for the main feature in Family Band, they can certainly use them for collector's extras!) Last week I told Joe Carioca the contents of the Archive Saludos Amigos/3 Caballeros set, and he was completely excited and frustrated at the same time that much material existed but wasn't included on the DVDs.

Maybe at some point in the future Disney will become more internally "stable" ;) and start doing things the old way :D

*hopes

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Post by Loomis »

Ciaobelli wrote:So basically there is no reason for Disney not to make more decent DVDs.

I WANT MY EXTRAS!!!!
Yes, but if you read the posts above you will see that there is no reason for them to NOT make decent DVDs either.

And they do continue to make decent DVDs - Alice: Masterpiece, for example. However, they are becoming fewer and further between.
Ciaobelli wrote:It is very very simple. Simply go to Pixar and ask them "how do I make a decent dvd?" And there you go, even if somehow even Pixar is going slowly down.

Recently I got Bugs life CE and Ulimate Toy Box, those are serious DVDs. Making ofs, storyboard comparisons, awsome commentaries, background of the story.....
But Disney KNOWS how to make a good DVD. Snow White, Fantasia Anthology, the DVDs I mentioned above (The Emperor's New Groove , Tarzan , Atlantis and Dinosaur) - even the single disc Treasure Planet isn't bad.

The problem - to be - seems they are developing an "Idea of What their Audience Is" and opposed to "What their Audience is Actually Like". Just like America network television (or any show with sponsors), they have these preconceived notions of what their audiences want (based on the recommendations of a vocal minority). So Disney have decided - it would seem - that making a film that is ideal for the 'families'/kiddies is "what the audience wants". In actual fact, audiences for DVDs would be perfectly happy to have DVDs chock full of extras, it is just that Disney is no longer offering them.

To use my old example (which was talking about commercial radio and the nature of "average" music): If you are lost in the desert, and dying of thirst, and somebody comes up and offers to sell you boot polish or petrol to drink, you are going to have to choose one of them, simply because they are your only options. Then the management would say "Look, the boot polish is selling really well. Let's just offer that!"

Now, a similar stand might offer boot polish, petrol and water (but the water is at a slightly higher price). I think they will find that by offering the water - or the extra packed DVD - even at a slightly higher price and in limited quantities, there is an incredibly thirsty market out there who is willing to pay to get something a little bit better to quench their collectable thirst (my analogy was running thin there).
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Post by Uncle Remus »

i sometimes like DVDs because of the extra features. but mostly when i buy or rent a DVD, i would get it just to watch the movie since the movie comes in better on DVD than on video.
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Post by yoda_four »

Ciaobelli wrote:It is very very simple. Simply go to Pixar and ask them "how do I make a decent dvd?" And there you go, even if somehow even Pixar is going slowly down.

Recently I got Bugs life CE and Ulimate Toy Box, those are serious DVDs. Making ofs, storyboard comparisons, awsome commentaries, background of the story.....
Pixar? Ask Pixar? First of all, Pixar is not the distributor, and thus is not the creator of bonus features. Pixar is the maker of the movie, no more, no less, under its contract with Disney. Disney makes the extras, and the DVDs. It distributes the film. Sure, Pixar is a good company and goes along with the creation of extras; like in the Studio Tour. But its Disney behind the camera, Disney's the one shooting Pixar's workers for the making-of.

As for the Toy Box and Bugs Life CE: Remember what year that was? Those masterpieces were released around the same time Disney hit it's DVD Acme. It was the time of double release (Standard and CE), the time of the Fantasia Anthology, the time of Snow White, the first Treasures, Vault Disney, Tron, need I go on. This was the most creative period at Disney's DVD Production. Disney created the Toy Box; not Pixar.

In other words, Disney could easily have continued producing high-caliber DVDs, but chose not to. I hope Disney goes back and does those kind of discs again.
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Post by englishboy »

I have all the archieve LD editions. Many of which I found very cheap on EBAY--some as cheap as $5 or $10. You can get an LD player fro $50 used easily. It's better to get one with two sided play. Go grab a used LD player. Get these sets. Each is significantly better than the corresponding DVD set.

I really think that most of this--and this happened to Walt's post-Hyperion studio as well--is a renew unwillingness to open the actual production process to the public.
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