Internet Drama Thread

[Semaj]

I have some of my own stories to tell, but this is a general thread for incidents involving prima donnas, fanboys, trolls, etc. from different communities.

(Continued from this thread: http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 3&start=20 )

[pap64]

Heh, I think I already exhausted my stories on the other thread .

But yeah, my stories pretty much deal with people that gain a little bit of online fame and begin to think they are better than most., and shield themselves from criticisms with tons of fanboys defending them.

I have to admit, I used to be a big fan of That Guy With The Glasses, its producers and community. I spent pretty much all of my 2010 watching nothing but their videos. I admit it was pretty intoxicating to find a community that was so into pop culture, whether celebrating it or mocking it. But then halfway through 2011, I began to read articles on Busy Street and Encyclopedia Drammatica that criticized the site by detailing events where they lost their cool. And the more I read it, the more the illusion began to fade, and I am actually grateful for that. Like I said, all of it was so intoxicating I began to participate on discussions, joining livestreams with the producers, DOING FANART!

I realized that I was doing all of this to get their attention, and that it was all stupid. I left it all behind. Sure I watch a few videos, but I left the community for good and only discuss the videos with close friends. Plus once you watch the videos after learning about everything, the charm is lost, and you even begin to feel annoyed by it.

[Rose Dome]

^ ^ ^

I'm not a massive fan of TGWTG, but I do watch the occasional review. The site is going down in my estimation though. I have recently heard similar stories to the ones you have, and it just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I watched the Disneycember videos, but I'm done now.

[Elladorine]

I saw lots of crazy drama as a forum moderator of what was once a very tight community, including online relationships from a chat room that escalated to secretive real-life affairs, with more cheating drama than you'd expect to see in any soap. I could seriously write a book. I've since separated myself from that community for reasons I'd rather not get into anymore, but I will say that the manipulative nature of some people is just sickening.

[pap64]

^ ^ ^

I'm not a massive fan of TGWTG, but I do watch the occasional review. The site is going down in my estimation though. I have recently heard similar stories to the ones you have, and it just doesn't appeal to me anymore. I watched the Disneycember videos, but I'm done now.

Here's the problem with the site and online artists, musicians, celebrities and more. Like I said in the original thread, online fame, even on its smallest scale, can be really intoxicating. They usually start with a few videos. They are quite good and thus gain some fame because of it. Then as they grow more in talent, more people are attracted to them. Soon, they have gained a very big fanbase. This is where there problems begin. When you have a big fanbase that is willing to kiss both your feet and the ground they walked on, you lead yourself to believe that you can do whatever you want and still get a lot of love and attention. This will also lead you to believe in the false notion that online celebrity can yield great results offline. Egos begin to grow, quality starts to decrease while quantity is through the roof and they start to justify actions they themselves would criticize other people for. Soon, criticisms, even when they are meant to be constructive, are ignored, bashed and ridiculed by fanboys and the producers themselves, and thus the decline gets worse.

In TGWTG's case, it happens to NEARLY everybody that gets on there. They make good to decent videos, they get noticed and it's decline from there. For example, I liked story based video reviews when it was just two guys doing it. But then everyone from the Nostalgia Chick to FREAKING JEWWARIO started doing stories where it was all glorified fan service made to make them appear as POWERFUL BEINGS. Then it was the material they began to review. The reason the Nostalgia Critic was so good at first was because the material he had at the beginning was genuinely awful, and thus ripe for mock, ridicule and riffing. But now it is clear that he doesn't care for what he does and has been picking movies that either don't deserve to be bashed or are just flat out dull.

For example, I hated his review of Moulin Rouge, not just because it's a movie I love dearly, but because it was 40 minute fan service mess where nothing was really made. Plus, Doug has admitted to hating the movie with a passion, so likely this made was to stroke his ego. The ironic thing? He accuses the movie of things EVERYONE ON THE SITE HAS DONE THEMSELVES. Baz Lurhman has said that the movie was done as both a tribute and satire to tragic love stories, Bollywood movies and classic musicals. Doug has made crappy site movies as a CELEBRATION of the site's history as well as the nerdy culture that inspired it. But noooo... someone criticizes their movies and they are all like "BUT WE DID THIS ON A SMALL BUDGET, WE DID THIS TO HAVE FUN, WE DID THIS TO BE SILLY DON'T TAKE IT SO SERIOUSLY LOL DON'T WATCH IT IF YOU HATE IT!". Yet something like Moulin Rouge deserves to be bashed just because they can...

Oh that's another thing, they can't stand criticisms. They love to dish it out on easy targets, yet refuse to accept any of it themselves. The most common is "If you don't like it don't watch". First of all, that is the stupidest thing ever, and I admit I am guilty of believing in it when I was a site fanboy. I watch these videos because I LIKE THEM, so I believe I can criticize it should I find it poor and mediocre. The whole site runs on than mantra, and even videos I hated I either never commented on or lied through my teeth about it.

They also fail to do proper criticism. People like the Nostalgia Chick claim to be "experts" with "college education" so they feel like they are entitled to form opinions and shouldn't be questioned. First of all, having college education means nothing unless you have the experience to back it up. I have three college degrees and I certainly don't feel as extremely qualified in the feel to be considered an "expert" (though I admit I made the mistake of making myself look bigger than I really am). The Chick at times gets so lost on her musings that the point of the review is often lost, and it takes several views of her videos just to get what she is talking about.

Then you have people like MarzGurl that at times try too hard to form legit criticisms about a product. She recently reviews Atlantis: The Lost Empire, and while the movies does have flaws, she made it out to be the worst movie ever made, and that stinks because you have people that LIVE on these people's words, and they run around thinking that their opinions outrank even their own. Form Ultimate Disney member TonyWDA made a video response to her where he points out some of the fallacies in her argument:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/epflAX4O13U" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Like Tony said, the movie has flaws, genuine ones that deserved to be nitpicked, but MarzGurl instead tried the whole "angry reviewer" schtick and failed miserably.

Phew! Sorry for all the ranting and rambling. I know I said to some people I was done with TGWTG, but I was presented a video recently and remembered why I shied away in the first place. Too many prima donnas, too many egotastical jerks and fanboys that would kill themselves should someone point out the fallacies of their arguments.

[pap64]

Oh and for the record, not speaking out against posting your content online and gaining a small following because of it. There are many YouTube artists, video producers and online artists that have posted some great stuff, some rivaling the best Hollywood, experts and professional have made. What I am saying is to not let any of it go to your head or lead you to believe that you will be set for life and be a God, which is what is happening with some of the people I mentioned.

I mean, enigmawing is a great artist with a solid following on dA, but she has yet to succumb to the power of "fame". At least not right now...

[Lazario]

For example, I hated his review of Moulin Rouge, not just because it's a movie I love dearly, but because it was 40 minute fan service mess where nothing was really made. Plus, Doug has admitted to hating the movie with a passion, so likely this made was to stroke his ego. The ironic thing? He accuses the movie of things EVERYONE ON THE SITE HAS DONE THEMSELVES. Baz Lurhman has said that the movie was done as both a tribute and satire to tragic love stories, Bollywood movies and classic musicals. Doug has made crappy site movies as a CELEBRATION of the site's history as well as the nerdy culture that inspired it. But noooo... someone criticizes their movies and they are all like "BUT WE DID THIS ON A SMALL BUDGET, WE DID THIS TO HAVE FUN, WE DID THIS TO BE SILLY DON'T TAKE IT SO SERIOUSLY LOL DON'T WATCH IT IF YOU HATE IT!". Yet something like Moulin Rouge deserves to be bashed just because they can...

I saw that video too and I hate the movie as well. But, you remember that it was a 3-person review. He didn't do it alone. And so, the movie had its' defenses from Lindsay and... the other guy (I'm afraid I'm not familiar with his stuff). So, I don't know where you're coming from but I thought it was a pretty entertaining video. And they had a point. If I'm not mistaken, there was an argument between them where he hated it and they liked it because it was a guilty pleasure. And Moulin Rouge is not a complicated film anyway; it's pop trash (emphasis on trash) that people turn off their brains to and enjoy. What additional insight did they need? I thought they made a good point. Even though a lot of Lindsay's stuff at that time felt like she was selling out. She's not good with emotion (don't ask me why the hell she even tries) - so the ending to that TLC video was an utter disaster, she's not good at playing characters - which made the Daria video a trainwreck, The Lion King video she did only has so many fans because she professed to liking the stupid thing and couldn't muster up one "okay, I know it's not perfect" thing to say about it, and her basic argument during The Worst Witch was: stupid major Hollywood films are always more entertaining and better in general than stupid low budget films. Which I find is simply a matter of aesthetic preference.

I noticed below that you went on about criticisms and I had a very big problem with Oancitizen's review of The Doom Generation and of course, spilled my guts in the comments section below. I was responded to - in a VERY polite and detailed manner - by his close friend who not only designs his title cards but also did a couple videos with him. Of course, those comments had nothing to do with the movie itself if I'm not mistaken.

Oh that's another thing, they can't stand criticisms. They love to dish it out on easy targets, yet refuse to accept any of it themselves.

Well, you really didn't expect them to completely halt their lives to assess every single person's concerns with each and every video, did you? I'm not saying no one was rude to you. But I actually find it an extreme rarity when someone - certainly that I watch - is being outright nasty with their comments on a particular video and isn't applying a lot of humor with it. Lindsay might be one but, take her recent What Women Want review as an example, I consider myself a pretty good judge of character and content... and that movie deserved a lot worse than the treatment she gave it. Sometimes viewers want nasty and what they get is a compromise. Which is only fair. Usually, I find a problem with a review or reviewer comes down to the viewer simply being emotional about it. At least, that's how it feels in your case with Moulin Rouge. No offense. Some people just don't like seeing a harmless movie torn down no matter how much it irks certain people. In my case, it's hard to explain why The Worst Witch or The Doom Generation deserve(d) more thought than the reviewers put into them and those were rare cases of: what do you expect? Are these people extraordinary minds with a one of a kind view on the stuff they're reviewing? Not really. A lot of the time, I think their opinions are reflecting what the majority think. Which is of course why we need variety in the first place. Which is why I'm so glad Diamanda Hagan also reviewed The Worst Witch. She entered and exited the review knowing people actually cared about the movie and still, in her own unique and fun way, tore it to shreds.

They also fail to do proper criticism.

I felt, as I said above, that way on occasion. But the good, for me and again with the video producers that I watch, easily outweighs the bad. You just need to watch commentaries tailored to you. For example, I've already mentioned that I'm a big fan of Diamanda Hagan and Obscuras Lupa. As far as Nostalgia Critic goes, I don't know when you started tuning out but I tune in when it's a movie or show I want to see him talk about and his reviews (still pretty recent) of The Cell, The Haunting remake, and Santa Claus: The Movie were all knockouts. He couldn't have done better. (Well, sans fart jokes. But you know how much I hate those. I also hate when people go for the easy laugh, which some of the TGwtG staff have.) Sadly, Lindsay / Nostalgia Chick remains my favorite reviewer on the site bar none and her quality is incredibly hit or miss. I didn't know anything about Minnie (?spell?) the Moocher but that review was fantastic. What Women Want left me cold. But, sometimes when you really need it, these reviewers just tear a bad movie apart brick by brick. The best example is Phelous and his best review is Quarantine and I'll be DAMNED if he didn't give that piece of shit exactly what it deserved. At one point, I think I started laughing AT THE FACT that I was laughing, considering how angry the movie made me this became like therapy. His video literally made me feel better. And then, of course, I became addicted and had to see every video he did of a horror movie that made me angry (Dead Snow, Hostel: Part II, Wrong Turn, many etc's).

People like the Nostalgia Chick claim to be "experts" with "college education" so they feel like they are entitled to form opinions and shouldn't be questioned. First of all, having college education means nothing unless you have the experience to back it up. I have three college degrees and I certainly don't feel as extremely qualified in the feel to be considered an "expert" (though I admit I made the mistake of making myself look bigger than I really am). The Chick at times gets so lost on her musings that the point of the review is often lost, and it takes several views of her videos just to get what she is talking about.

So, you haven't actually had a word-for-word run-in with her?

I usually find she knows - when its' really what she knows best, like she's talking about herself or, yes, feminism - whereof she speaks. Again, even on movies I like. Yes, I liked Teen Witch. And I think she was simply the wrong audience for it. But wasn't she right that the film didn't know what kind of viewership it had and assumed that it was meant to get the girls watching to relate to Louise's experiences? Probably (although that would likely make the filmmakers either insane or higher than kites). Her review for The Craft was spot-on. And this is from a person who used to view the film as one of the most perceptive movies ever made on the topic of fair-weather friends, back stabbing / social climbing, and being an outcast in high school. Moreso than Heathers, in a way. (Since, if you take the fantasy out of The Craft- you have a very real situation and if you take the fantasy out of Heathers, you're dealing with a group of very twisted stereotypes. Though they are intelligently crafted- they're still stereotypes.) When she started examining the film by what she'd learned in filmmaking classes, she made a lot of very good points. Even what she said about Earth Girls Are Easy made sense... though she didn't seem to realize the movie was a joke. The review was entirely off but, if it had been a serious film she would have been right.

Then you have people like MarzGurl that at times try too hard to form legit criticisms about a product. She recently reviews Atlantis: The Lost Empire, and while the movies does have flaws, she made it out to be the worst movie ever made, and that stinks because you have people that LIVE on these people's words, and they run around thinking that their opinions outrank even their own. Form Ultimate Disney member TonyWDA made a video response to her where he points out some of the fallacies in her argument.

I've tried to get into Marzgurl. I loved her video on Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (though even I admit she was being far too kind). And, just because I had to see SOMEONE review Cool World, I liked that review as well. But I actually have a serious problem with her voice. She talks so loudly and in basically a monotone, it's hard to sit through her videos unless the clips are distracting the hell out of me. I tried to watch her Atlantis video after someone posted TonyWDA's response and I couldn't do it. This time, I actually needed to have already seen the movie to even care enough. (The same is not true in the slightest for Diamanda Hagan. Watch her review of Biggles: Adventures in Time for proof... unless you've seen the movie, then this experiment doesn't exactly work. And in that case, try Condorman. Unless you've seen that.) But Tony's video was remarkable. I did see that.

Phew! Sorry for all the ranting and rambling. I know I said to some people I was done with TGWTG, but I was presented a video recently and remembered why I shied away in the first place. Too many prima donnas, too many egotastical jerks and fanboys that would kill themselves should someone point out the fallacies of their arguments.

Well, people do that amongst themselves all the time. There's no reason why people have to interface with the reviewers themselves. If you're a fan, I'm sure it'd be nice to meet these people at magfests or comicons or whathaveyou. But if you're a real fan... why would you want to interrupt these people and force them to listen to any/every random beef you have with them? You are aware, if you've seen them, what they do and who they are. Wouldn't you prefer they just made more videos? Unless you'd prefer to write them off instead, which makes me wonder why you can't just remember why you bothered to watch them in the first place. Why can't you just see that the opinions they present can't always speak for everyone? Why does it have to be a matter of criticizing them? Unless you never really cared for them in the first place. Which I've said in regards to The Cinema Snob time and again. He's even still popular with people who feel the same way you do and I can't imagine why. I hate his Snob persona and he hasn't made one video which I've seen that made me appreciate his routine. I like him much better in his non-horror / exploitation reviews and his Brad Tries, etc(.) videos. Because I know he's trying to play a character. It's not hard to see when someone on that site is acting.

Anyway, I've heard UDers tell me you had real insight into what's wrong over at TGwtG and I don't see any evidence of it in this reply. Furthermore, I fail to see how Doug not liking Moulin Rouge means that he now deserves to be criticized right back. Especially since he knows he's not the only one. You got anything else? You see above that I criticize them too when I think they're wrong. More detaiils would be nice; specific reviews. Especially on Lindsay and the other reviewers you think are most guilty of this ego problem you refer to.

[Semaj]

I was often under the impression that Nostalgia Critic's reviews weren't meant to be taken seriously. A lot of his best reviews are of stuff he hates but I can at least enjoy.

One of the many fanboys I met from John K's fanbase had a real knack for annoying everyone into agreeing with anything John said, moreso than others. He typically repeated his points in the manner of "You're an idiot for disagreeing with me!", to the point where it often disrupted threads. He did this at multiple blogs and forums where anything Spumco-related came up. He even had a blog that was at first fashioned like John's with the similar arbitrary "critiques".

Later, he yelled at John for "betraying" him when John didn't come to his defense after people started ganging up on him for being a ass-kissing moron, even making a pathetic suicide threat. He continued his fanboy rituals for some time, before he was finally booted out of some blogs and forums after constant arguing caused John to shut off his blog for a brief period. After a while, the fanboy confessed to having bipolar disorder, admitting to a myriad of personal problems.

The guy no longer posts on blogs or forums as far as I know, but he was a real tell of who John's rhetoric appeals to.

[Lazario]

Yeesh.

I know some fans get out of hand but I think overall, most viewers know that it doesn't matter what someone says as criticism because it's still meant to be viewed as an opinion. I also think I've been completely respectful in how I've handled my disagreements with Nostalgia Chick and Oancitizen. I did have 1 problem with Critic once, but it was just: I don't understand how someone could register an honest objection to Care Bears. They're colorful bears. Either you like them or you don't. He really had to stretch to find a basis to criticize them on and I wasn't very amused because what he came up with wasn't very clever. Not in the first 2 movie videos. He handled those well enough and I laughed my ASS off at the second one (I should really watch that again). But it kept coming up later on. He even returned years later to do the Alice in Wonderland themed movie. And that's where he had nothing left. Pap mentioned that to a point, and I agree, that he needs a good basis to form criticism upon or else he'll overcompensate with yelling and screeching and cameos. And those are some of his weaknesses.