Lazario, I think my biggest problem with Batman Returns is that it's just plain depressing. It begins with a baby being thrown into the sewers, introduces a pitiful and nervous secretary nearly murdered by her cold-hearted boss, which turns her into a rampaging psychopath, falls in love with the hero, the baby grows up to be another psychopath determined to murder other first born babies, and the romance ends tragically. I'm not saying it has to be a cheerful movie, but there's nothing about this movie to lighten the mood; the first Batman film had Jack Nicholson being hilarious as well as frightening, but only a handful of Batman Returns' few jokes are good.
On top of it being extremely depressing, it's the epitome of style-over-subsance, and the protagonist is much less developed than the antagonists. Nonetheless, Michelle Pfeiffer and Danny DeVito are both energetic and move around the sets in memorable, rythmical and entrancing ways, and the cinematography, makeup and production design are all very good.
I've just watched several clips of it to make a fairer judgement, and while it's not as bad as some of Burton's big stinkers (e.g. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Planet of the Apes, Alice in Wonderland, etc.), I still think it's inferior to the majority of his films.
Lazario wrote:I don't think it's perfect. For me, Penguin is the weak spot. But, you have to admit he gets KILLER one-liners. Lines that aren't just cool, they have power behind them. Again, if you were able to plug into the movie. It's a strong movie whether it's bad or not. I cared about it.
Yeah, the dialogue is occasionally powerful and darkly funny ("Er, Penguin - killing sleeping children? Isn't that a little..." *Penguin shoots henchman* "No, it's a LOT!"), and I have to agree, it is a strong movie. I vividly remember some of the shots and even though I didn't entirely enjoy it, it did have an emotional impact on me.
Lazario wrote:(I haven't seen the whole of Sweeney Todd yet but I'm guessing it'll suffer from the same problem that plagued Sleepy Hollow and Wood- slick and loud and expensive but entirely lacking the heaviness that made me live through the Batman movies and Scissorhands. Hollywood wants everything to move along now, gloss over really important tone and mood details.)
Nah, the words slick, loud and expensive are probably the last words I'd associate with Sweeney Todd (then again, I wouldn't associate them with Sleepy Hollow, so we obviously have different outlooks on Burton films). I think you should watch it - I haven't seen it all the way from beginning to end, but I've seen the first hour and watched a lot of the rest online. It's a really passionate film, and the excitement doesn't come from big, expensive SFX or loud, explosive set-pieces, but from the sheer emotion put into all the songs.
Depp, Bonham Carter and the like aren't exactly pitch perfect, but instead of musical perfection in the songs, the audience is provided with compelling passion and character depth (infinitely more important in my eyes). Also, the extremely bloody violence is like something from a Hammer Horror film.
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Heathers, but I will check it out (Winona Ryder and Otho are in it, so that intrigues me). Anyway, I understand what you're saying; most of the one-liners that I can remember were powerful, but I haven't watched Batman Returns for some time.
