Overrated Disney Movies

[Super Aurora]

I will apoligize if I did come off any where nasty even though i had no intention doing so.

Anyway. Your complaint about Disney treat sequels as if originals I can see as a fair complaint to empathize with. What I didn't understand is why your asking why does any even like the sequels? Maybe I shouldn't have said what I said earlier but my stance was that maybe some like sequels. I'm sure many here regard the original in much higher respect than sequels. That's is true. But at same time some might like the sequels too and would want them on blu ray etc.

That's what I was getting at.

-------------

Bullshit. I've seen you go after people who praise the movie without me being in any way involved.

That's a lie and If I did it on a very joking unserious one. Especially of a Disney one.

But I am saying that you are hypocritical- you do care what other people think. You complained when people were too hard on The Lion King and you complain when people are complementary of Sleeping Beauty.

Sleeping beauty I never complain other people's opinion on it. That was you who complain to any who dislike it.
Most of the ones that may seems so like the ones involving the 3 fairies were merely light hearted jokes. I really don't care if you or anyone else like em even though I hate them bad.

You play it off like you never made a big deal of it but I've seen you do it frequently enough.

No that's just an impression you're making. At most the Lion King is only one I may of make a deal out of. But not just because i like it it but because I couldn't understand much of hate for it.

Not to mention your reasoning on defending the Lion King was absurd- you criticized anyone for disliking it stating that it seemed like they were disliking it just to be different. As though no one could have a valid reason for disliking it. Like that isn't putting words in people's mouths? I'd say you must have cared what people thought when you said that.

No I said that only because I seem to see so much dislike for film coming from only hardcore disney fans(Goliath for example claim it's a ripped off of Kimba White Lion even though it isn't. He hasn't even seen or read it yet claim so.) This is one of the impression why I seem to think or get the impression that people just merely hate it now just because.

but when talking to everyone else outside that seems to love it with maybe few minor criticism that even I would agree with.




I will say I apologize for any rudeness I displayed. But t\i think you need to relax and loosen up a bit. You seem to be getting to hostile these days lately.

[Lazario]

Bullshit. I've seen you go after people who praise the movie without me being in any way involved.

That's a lie and If I did it on a very joking unserious one. Especially of a Disney one.

You cut me off. (Did you want me to think you were twisting my words or that you can't read?) I said directly after that sentence: "I'm not saying you crossed the line." Which means I didn't say you insulted the other person. But you did, in fact, suggest you have a problem with people liking, defending, or praising Sleeping Beauty. I know- I literally read several posts in less than a week that you made about the movie without replying to a single one. It was not just my impression. Maybe you were trying to be helpful, but I KNOW the other people/person talking to you felt like the same way I did. And if you reply to this arguing or trying to call me a liar again- I will go find the posts in question and prove it. I do not lie. And, considering that you started this anyway- why the hell would I care about making anything up? I didn't come into this thread talking about you.

I will apoligize if I did come off any where nasty even though i had no intention doing so.

Anyway. Your complaint about Disney treat sequels as if originals I can see as a fair complaint to empathize with. What I didn't understand is why your asking why does any even like the sequels? Maybe I shouldn't have said what I said earlier but my stance was that maybe some like sequels. I'm sure many here regard the original in much higher respect than sequels. That's is true. But at same time some might like the sequels too and would want them on blu ray etc.

That's what I was getting at.

Yeah? Well, what makes you think I have to be okay with you using my posts to make this statement? You derailed the point I was making and insinuated that I cared about making myself look superior to others- which is technically a personal attack. Can you see where I might have a problem with that?

But t\i think you need to relax and loosen up a bit. You seem to be getting to hostile these days lately.

Are you saying my last post didn't give you... ANY IDEAS on why that might be?

I was serious, you know, when I said maybe we shouldn't reply to each other anymore. Can you oblige me now?

[Super Aurora]

-____-

You know what, Goliath is right. I'll leave it at that.

[Lazario]

Goliath is right.

About a lot of things, surely.

But not about me.

[Goliath]

What the flying HELL is up with people actually not hating all the Disney cheapquels? [...] I forgive 1 and 1 ONLY Disney cheapquel- Return of Jafar. Because it likely was the first, and it managed to make me care about Iago. [...]

That's odd. I hate the Disney sequels as much as you do, but Return of Jafar is one of the worst. The animation is simply atrocious; the songs are overly simplistic; there is no character development for anybody else besides Iago (and even his is predictable within the context of the film, which is simply kiddie-fare) and the humor seems to be missing altogether. Everything that made Aladdin a great movie, is absent here. I did find traces of the original movie in the second sequel, though, The King Of Thieves, which to me is the only sequel worth watching. It has far better animation; the songs are decent; Robin Williams is back as the Genie and so is the humor; and we have interesting character development again with Aladdin and his long-lost father.

[qindarka]

More overrated Disney movies:

Cinderella 2: Dreams Come True - Has ridiculous plot points (Anastasia's redemption) and the plot as a whole doesn't mesh well. Why is this film held in such high regard??

The Little Mermaid 2 : Return to the Sea- Lame villain, ridiculous plot complete with characters acting out of character. The critical acclaim for this film is baffling.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame 2: Too lazy to describe how exactly this one fails. Crap all around


*I haven't actually watched any of these

And Lazario, I don't think that overrated has the same meaning as hated or bad. It just means that something is rated more highly than it deserves and I don't think many of us here really rate the sequels at all.

[Lazario]

What the flying HELL is up with people actually not hating all the Disney cheapquels? [...] I forgive 1 and 1 ONLY Disney cheapquel- Return of Jafar. Because it likely was the first, and it managed to make me care about Iago. [...]

That's odd. I hate the Disney sequels as much as you do, but Return of Jafar is one of the worst. The animation is simply atrocious; the songs are overly simplistic; there is no character development for anybody else besides Iago (and even his is predictable within the context of the film, which is simply kiddie-fare) and the humor seems to be missing altogether. Everything that made Aladdin a great movie, is absent here. I did find traces of the original movie in the second sequel, though, The King Of Thieves, which to me is the only sequel worth watching. It has far better animation; the songs are decent; Robin Williams is back as the Genie and so is the humor; and we have interesting character development again with Aladdin and his long-lost father.

Well, I haven't seen it in years. That might explain it all right there.

And I didn't love it as a kid or anything but something in me told me to defend it. Not to mention, well the original Aladdin had come out a mere 2 years prior. There's a huge difference between this sequel and sequels to Bambi, Cinderella, Dalmatians, Jungle Book- etc. Disney had already changed drastically and I think Aladdin made the best of what they were offering. Which I know should make me more cynical of the sequels since they're trying to milk an underfed cow but it doesn't. Because I know what Disney had become was so radically different. Sorta made me set my standards a bit lower (and even then, I was convinced Hunchback was a bore when it wasn't being obnoxious- but I'm thinking of giving that one a rewatch for the holidays).

In fact, I don't really remember Jafar's songs but I do believe they at least knew well enough to ditch the overstuffed musical feel of songs like "One Jump Ahead." (But I'm probably clutching at straws with that, huh? The drippy, sitcommy candlelight ballad approach the movie likely took would be just as bad.) All I remember about Return of Jafar now is... help me out: a waterfall - ? - a chase on the magic carpet, musical number with Jafar doing something REALLY creepy / appearing to either Aladdin or Iago in the corner of a room in a dreamlike manner... but the song was still fast paced).

Lazario, I don't think that overrated has the same meaning as hated or bad. It just means that something is rated more highly than it deserves and I don't think many of us here really rate the sequels at all.

Naturally. And I was saying I believe overrated isn't something that stays stationary while the movies considered go above and below it's midway line. There are double and triple standards all over the place. In my view. To me, considering the damage they do, any defense (even minor) of the films is a form of overrating.

[toonaspie]

More overrated Disney movies:

Cinderella 2: Dreams Come True - Has ridiculous plot points (Anastasia's redemption) and the plot as a whole doesn't mesh well. Why is this film held in such high regard??

The Little Mermaid 2 : Return to the Sea- Lame villain, ridiculous plot complete with characters acting out of character. The critical acclaim for this film is baffling.

The Hunchback of Notre Dame 2: Too lazy to describe how exactly this one fails. Crap all around


*I haven't actually watched any of these

And Lazario, I don't think that overrated has the same meaning as hated or bad. It just means that something is rated more highly than it deserves and I don't think many of us here really rate the sequels at all.

That was suppose to be a joke about Cinderella 2 and THoND 2 right because I'm pretty sure that both sequels are universally panned.

But since we're on the subject of Disney sequels I find the most overrated is Cinderella 3: A Twist in Time. As great as the effort and quality was that put into the film, the story or characters didn't really entertain me and I felt the way the Prince and Cinderella were portrayed in this movie felt VERY out of character.

[Super Aurora]

I felt the way the Prince and Cinderella were portrayed in this movie felt VERY out of character.

How could the Prince be out of character when he had none in the first film?

[qindarka]

Naturally. And I was saying I believe overrated isn't something that stays stationary while the movies considered go above and below it's midway line. There are double and triple standards all over the place. In my view. To me, considering the damage they do, any defense (even minor) of the films is a form of overrating.

So you are saying that we should all pan the sequels more in this thread?

[Lazario]

Not unless you want to.

[Goliath]

[...] Disney had already changed drastically and I think Aladdin made the best of what they were offering. Which I know should make me more cynical of the sequels since they're trying to milk an underfed cow but it doesn't. [...]

In fact, I don't really remember Jafar's songs but I do believe they at least knew well enough to ditch the overstuffed musical feel of songs like "One Jump Ahead." [...]

What do you mean? I just recently rewatched Aladdin and, while it has always been in my top 10 of Disney movies, I gained a whole new appreciation for it. I think it's a flawless movie. Yes, that's right: flawless, completely. Not a single weak link in it. Setting your personal dislikes aside, you'd have to admit that. Animation if top-notch; visually rich and lush; full of humor for kids and adults alike (without ever approaching Pumbaa-like fart jokes); the most interesting male character Disney has ever done; and the songs are so well done, you don't even notice a different songwriter took over halfway the production. I had never appreciated "One Jump Ahead" but only upon this viewing I came to realize how sophisticated and witty it actually is.

No I said that only because I seem to see so much dislike for film coming from only hardcore disney fans(Goliath for example claim it's a ripped off of Kimba White Lion even though it isn't. He hasn't even seen or read it yet claim so.) This is one of the impression why I seem to think or get the impression that people just merely hate it now just because.

Well, you have simply not convinced me that the many, many, many similarities between Kimba and Simba are just mere coincidences. I've read this story in a Dutch book on Disney ('Mou$e Entertainment') about an American who had worked at narrating the Kimba series in the US and who was at the premiere of Lion King and who could tell the entire story beforehand, because it had so many similarities with Kimba. And the same book states that the studio which created Kimba did recognize the rip-off but decided not to sue because its founder was such a big fan of Walt Disney.

Also, I gave plenty of other reasons why TLK is vastly overrated. That's because the films supposed "deep messages" are not deep at all, but are mere clichés and conventional wisdoms, but because they're presented like they are deep and mystical, easily impressed people (that's most people) confuse this gibberish with an actual message. But seeing your father in your reflection in the water and corny lines like: "you don't even know who you are" or whatever it was the monkey said are unbelievably childish when you take a good hard look at them. And that end fight between Simba and Scar with them hitting each other in slow-motion, how laughable is that? It's all layed on much, much too thickly and that's what irks me, too.

[qindarka]

Not saying you are wrong but maybe you could read/watch Kimba to gain a better idea on whether it does really rip it off.

While I do think TLK is a great film, I do agree that some of the dialogue was poor. Mufasa's ghost probably should have had a more enigmatic presence and not spoken at all. And yes, the slow motion in the climax was stupid.

[Super Aurora]

Well, you have simply not convinced me that the many, many, many similarities between Kimba and Simba are just mere coincidences.

They aren't that many similarities though. Simba about reclaim his position as king of prideland. Kimba about reunion a friendship bond between the animals and the humans. Completely different concept. Kimba is most about the animals dealing with the humans. There are no humans in the Lion King.

Some of those similarities you mention weren't use in same content. Example is the lion cloud. In TLK it was spirit of Mufasa appearing to tell Simba to return and and go beat the shit out of scar and save his property. In Kimba, that cloud was at the very end of story where this human character and Kimba's son walk into distance. The cloud was just a symbolic imagery. Not actual spirit. And also, that cloud is Kimba. Yes that right, Kimba actually fucking dies in middle of the series by humans. The new cub is his son who become the main star for rest of the series.

If you really want to excuse TLK ripping something off, then it would be hamlet or hell even Bambi, as those two have much more similarities in comparison.

In fact Kimba story takes influences from Bambi too. Tezuka loves Bambi so much he even made his own official manga version of Bambi.

I've read this story in a Dutch book on Disney ('Mou$e Entertainment') about an American who had worked at narrating the Kimba series in the US and who was at the premiere of Lion King and who could tell the entire story beforehand, because it had so many similarities with Kimba.

You are aware that the the US version is drastically change in comparison to the original japanese right?

And even then the anime is still not the original. The original is the manga drawn and create by Osamu Tezuka. Having read it, the story is vastly different.

And the same book states that the studio which created Kimba did recognize the rip-off but decided not to sue because its founder was such a big fan of Walt Disney.

As I mention before, Tezuka's Kimba got influences from Bambi. By the logic of yours, Kimba would be ripping off Bambi too. And since many compared TLK to Bambi, You would say it come full circle anyway.

There are influences TLK got from Kimba but to say it's a ripoff is pushing I would say. Especially for someone who has not even read or watch the series.

Also, I gave plenty of other reasons why TLK is vastly overrated. That's because the films supposed "deep messages" are not deep at all, but are mere clichés and conventional wisdoms, but because they're presented like they are deep and mystical, easily impressed people (that's most people) confuse this gibberish with an actual message. But seeing your father in your reflection in the water and corny lines like: "you don't even know who you are" or whatever it was the monkey said are unbelievably childish when you take a good hard look at them. And that end fight between Simba and Scar with them hitting each other in slow-motion, how laughable is that? It's all layed on much, much too thickly and that's what irks me, too.

I don't mind your other reasons for disliking the movie. I'm fine with that and find them reasonable complaint. What I do have problem with is Claiming something is a ripoff of something with other having view the original source and instead rely on someone's bias complaint. I read the original manga by Tezuka Osamu. They are no where similar other than having Lions and setting in Africa.

[Goliath]

^ Okay, that's fair enough. You've actually seen/read Kimba so I better take your word for it. Still, I think there are many similarities in the design of the characters. But okay, I'll give you that the stories are not as similar as I thought they were. But that was never my biggest complaint with the movie anyway, even though you picked up on that one the most.

[Disney's Divinity]

On Aladdin:
Yes, that's right: flawless, completely. Not a single weak link in it. Setting your personal dislikes aside, you'd have to admit that.

I don't think that's true. The movie has been criticized by critics before. I know the music wasn't that popular at the time the movie was released--with AWNW as the notable exception--and most people felt Williams basically took over the movie midway through it.

Personally, I feel similarly about Aladdin that I do Beauty and the Beast, in that I think it's a great film that I'm not particularly enamored with, but it has got it's own share of criticism over the years just like every other Disney film.

[Super Aurora]

Although Aladdin isn't my number one favorite Disney movie, I do think Aladdin is probably one of the most well balance Disney movie among them.
Even with the Genie, I don't think he over took aladdin's starlight as much as people make it out to be.

King of Thieves was more of a Genie spotlight than Aladdin was.

[Sotiris]

Return of Jafar is one of the worst. The animation is simply atrocious.

I agree. Especially regarding animation which is always my biggest pet peeve when it comes to DTV sequels. The animation is very stiff and clunky and the characters are horribly off-model throughout the film. It looks very cheap as if it was made on the budget of a single TV episode. In fact, if you take any scene from the film and any scene from the Aladdin TV series, the animation quality between the two is indistinguishable.

[thedisneyspirit]

Most of Pixar's films- esp. once you notice they carry the same plot over and over again, and just disguise by placing it in a different setting with different characters.

I suppose Dumbo and Peter Pan? The first one may have some charm but the second one has aged terribly, yet is still considered a classic.

Tangled as well. It plays things relatively safe and steals a lot from other sources, yet for years was considered the only "genuinely good one" of the Lasseter era.

[Farerb]

- Toy story 1-3 (especially 3): I'm just not that into them. I think the first one has a not that amazing generic plot. In my opinion people wouldn't have been that into it if it hadn't been the first fully CGI anumated film. And it looks terrible. The third one is a poor film with two emotional scenes that rely too much on previous nostalgia.

- Frozen: It was a nice film, but not the greatest thing ever. I thought they tried too much with unsubtle "deconstruction" that they forgot to actually develop characters. Everything just feels written backwords in order for everything to fit a certain plot twist and that makes the film feel forced.

- The Lion King: The film's great, its three predecessors were better (especially Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin).

- Mulan: A nice film, but less than what people makes it.

- Pixar as a whole is overrated. I think there are just 5-6 films from that studio which I think are really great.