Mooky wrote:It's not just the sets, there's music, there's cinematography, dialogues, make-up... I could go on and on. And I'm surprised that outside of DeVito, you don't find any of the cast good. Maybe you thought Michelle Pfeiffer or Christopher Walken were too outlandish, but there's no excuse in ignoring Michael Keaton's performance - even the most ardent BB/TDK fans agree that Christian Bale's Batman left much to be desired and that Keaton's Batman is the definitive movie Batman, second only to Kevin Conroy's.
For me, the cinematography is only really good in the opening scene, and when the camera revolves around the snow-capped, abandoned Gotham zoo. The dialogue isn't spectacular, but in all fairness, the sets, the music and the Penguin's make-up are all good. However, a lot of this - sets, music, cinematography - is to do with the style of the movie rather than the substance. I think the important parts (characters, story and plot) are awfully weak.
Pfeiffer is good at conveying this angry and hateful person trapped inside a timid, self-consciousness character, but after she wrecks her apartment, I find her acting poor in comparison to the rest of it. Christopher Walken is hammy and I only like Keaton in the first Burton Batman film.
Also, even though Christian Bale's 'Batman voice' is somewhat silly, you can't deny that he excels at doing unique personas for each part of Bruce Wayne's life; in Batman Begins, he plays him as an arrogant playboy, a naive bum, Batman, and the real Bruce Wayne.
Mooky wrote:I never said it was better, I said it was "more entertaining, enjoyable, memorable and influential". I don't deny Nolan's ingenuity (I quite liked both BB and TDK - enough to own them on DVD and enough to be mildly excited about TDKR), but, at any moment, I'd rather spend my time watching a refined fusion of pure escapism, fantasy and art than the movies that are essentially cop/gangster action dramas (not my preferred genre) that take themselves way too seriously and that just happen to feature a guy dressing as a bat.
I'd rather spend my time watching a movie which isn't style over substance (and regardless of genre, features an original story driven by well-developed characters and stellar direction) than something like Batman Returns, which is nothing more than poorly-structured style over substance.
For me at least, the Nolan films are much more entertaining, enjoyable and memorable than the Burton films. They're nowhere near as influential as Burton's Batman films, but in all fairness, they are recent.
Mooky wrote:But enough with us hijacking this thread, can we just get on with the game?
I don't think there's anything wrong with a bit of discussion alongside the game play, especially as it isn't 'off-topic.'
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure - 10 Points
Beetlejuice - 10 Points
Batman - 10 Points
Edward Scissorhands - 10 Points
Batman Returns - 10 Points (-2)
Ed Wood - 10 Points
Mars Attacks! - 6 Points
Sleepy Hollow - 10 Points
Big Fish - 10 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 14 Points
ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
