Overrated Disney Movies

[qindarka]

Snow White -- Thin plot stretched over an overly long running time and the entire middle section, while containing scenes that can be individually entertaining hardly contribute to the plot. Also, the Queen is a rather weak villain who is overly hammy and big on unnecessary and poorly delivered lines. Nowhere close to being the best Disney film even though I admit that overall, despite these flaws its a decent enough movie.

Fantasia - Half of the sequences are simply not entertaining and even those which are stretch too long, contributing to an overly long running time whereby half of it is spent in boredom. Also often said to 'be ahead of its time' though that would imply that this sort of film became popular later on.

WALL-E- Watched it in a bad frame of mind and may not have been paying full attention but parts of the film do seem boring and it does seem badly paced. Will probably have to rewatch it to have a more accurate assessment but as for the moment, I cannot understand all the praise heaped upon it.

[DC Fan]

Lady and the Tramp
101 Dalmatians

Seen them lots of times but they never get me.

The first one feels too long and boring and times.

The second one is just fun but nothing more.


The Fox and the Hound; my least favorite Classic (well Home on the Range I just hate). Don´t see why it was released as Blu Ray so soon and got a sequel. Doesn´t have good music, the characters are flat and the story feels too heavy and obscure.

[Lazario]

Are you sure about this? If so might I recomed you watch the following films insteed.

1. GULLIVER'S TRAVELS (12/22/39) Paramount - Fleischer Studios.
2. MR. BUG GOES TO TOWN (12/4/41) Paramount - Fleischer. 77 mins.
3. 1001 ARABIAN NIGHTS (12/1/59) Columbia - UPA. 76 mins. Starring Mr. Magoo
4. GAY PURR-EE (10/24/62) Warner Bros. - UPA 86 mins.
5. THE INCREDIBLE MR. LIMPET (3/28/64) Warner Bros. (live-action/animation) 102 mins.
6. OF STARS AND MEN (5/13/64) Brandon Films Inc. 53 mins.
7. HEY THERE , IT'S YOGI BEAR (6/3/64) Columbia - Hanna Barbera. 89 mins.
8. THE MAN FROM BUTTON WILLOW (2/1/65) United Screen Artists. 81 mins.
9. ALICE OF WONDERLAND IN PARIS (2/5/66) Rembrant Films. 52 mins. Director: Gene Deitch.
10. THE MAN CALLED FLINTSTONE (8/3/66) Columbia - Hanna-Barbera. 87 mins.
11. THE WACKY WORLD OF MOTHER GOOSE (12/2/67) Embassy Pictures. (Rankin-Bass) 77 mins.

I'm not sure what you're saying. I love Disney to death; I'm not saying I don't. I just think most people appreciate Disney for the wrong reasons. It's like the way some people go SO overboard for Christmas and literally start celebrating in September and don't stop until February: it signals serious regression and a false sense of safety. The movies make them feel so good inside because they're so simplistic in terms of story and characterization. But they don't recognize this. They only focus on how good the movies make them feel, and so they begin to believe the myriad of feelings the movies fill them with are actually inside the movies. That they are a lot more thought-provoking and complex than they really are. And they'll hang these sorts of labels on the films because it makes them seem more high brow. I believe they're fairly high brow too, actually. But because of the art of the high quality animation and the extraordinarily skillfully crafted music, etc. Not because the stories are told in a way I would describe as being groundbreaking, etc. That is, save for a select few films (Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio being the most obvious).

Thanks for the recommendations, however.

[Super Aurora]

I'm not sure what you're saying. I love Disney to death; I'm not saying I don't. I just think most people appreciate Disney for the wrong reasons. It's like the way some people go SO overboard for Christmas and literally start celebrating in September and don't stop until February: it signals serious regression and a false sense of safety. The movies make them feel so good inside because they're so simplistic in terms of story and characterization. But they don't recognize this. They only focus on how good the movies make them feel, and so they begin to believe the myriad of feelings the movies fill them with are actually inside the movies. That they are a lot more thought-provoking and complex than they really are. And they'll hang these sorts of labels on the films because it makes them seem more high brow. I believe they're fairly high brow too, actually. But because of the art of the high quality animation and the extraordinarily skillfully crafted music, etc. Not because the stories are told in a way I would describe as being groundbreaking, etc. That is, save for a select few films (Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio being the most obvious).

Dude, Sleeping Beauty does fall under that statement you made(that I bold). It's couldn't be an even more obvious example.

Fauna- "I just LOVE happy endings!"

[Dr Frankenollie]

Snow White -- Thin plot stretched over an overly long running time and the entire middle section, while containing scenes that can be individually entertaining hardly contribute to the plot. Also, the Queen is a rather weak villain who is overly hammy and big on unnecessary and poorly delivered lines. Nowhere close to being the best Disney film even though I admit that overall, despite these flaws its a decent enough movie.

What do you mean by the phrase 'thin plot'? Do you mean that the plot is too simplistic? Well...what's the problem with that? The running time is hardly long; it's the usual running time for a Disney movie, but I infer that you mean the plot is so thin that it the usual running time wasn't necessary. However, your points for why it was stretched out are incorrect.

You say that there are scenes which don't contribute to the plot; I assume you mean most of the Dwarfs' scenes, but those are absolutely necessary. Why? Because like most great movies, Snow White's story is driven by characters, not the plot, and the scenes with the Dwarfs are used to make us like them and in order to differentiate each of them.

The Wicked Queen is hardly weak - in both sides of her role, Lucille LaVerne uses great and now iconic voices that breathe life into the Queen, as well as her uglier alter ego. The transformation scene is utterly thrilling and one of cinema's greatest moments (due to the surrealistic revolving of the animation camera, editing, unsettling musical score and the Queen's voice-over describing what's happening to her), and so is the opening.

Both the Queen and the Hag have great presence and although the latter is a little hammy, LaVerne's portrayal of her and Joe Grant's grotesque design ensure that she is more creepy than amusing despite the melodramatic dialogue.

Fantasia - Half of the sequences are simply not entertaining and even those which are stretch too long, contributing to an overly long running time whereby half of it is spent in boredom. Also often said to 'be ahead of its time' though that would imply that this sort of film became popular later on.

Perhaps you enjoy more fast-paced or traditionalistic entertainment, because Fantasia is entertaining in an unique sense. It's a thought-provoking piece of high art, and even if you don't watch the images the music alone is greatly compelling. Furthermore, even if you find some of the sequences rather slow-paced, you can still appreciate the superb visuals and editing.

WALL-E- Watched it in a bad frame of mind and may not have been paying full attention but parts of the film do seem boring and it does seem badly paced. Will probably have to rewatch it to have a more accurate assessment but as for the moment, I cannot understand all the praise heaped upon it.

You're right - you will probably have to rewatch it to make an accurate assessment, because your criticisms of the movie sound like a child's. The movie's pacing is fine, and it's not boring in the slightest.

[Lazario]

Dude, Sleeping Beauty does fall under that statement you made(that I bold). It's couldn't be an even more obvious example.

Fauna- "I just LOVE happy endings!"

You don't remember our last discussion on this movie at all, do you? It began with you arguing that this movie had a scene where the story was telling the audience that the kingdom in the movie was joyously celebrating Aurora's birthday (Dr. F called it her "Christening" though the movie chooses not to say that word) with full song and yet it wasn't trying to make the audience feel warm and happy. I agreed with you, said that I believe that was intentional, and went on to argue that the film is very unlike most Disney films and that it doesn't try to make people feel warm. This is true for nearly every scene of the film. You didn't disagree or attempt to contradict that opinion in any way.

You're just now choosing to argue the opposite? And, what's more, all you have to support your argument is a single quote from the movie?? NewsFlash: almost every Disney production - movies, television, shorts - longer than 9 minutes has a "happy" ending (an ending where the "good" characters vanquish the "evil"). Your point is... ?

[Christopher_TCUIH]

NewsFlash: almost every Disney production - movies, television, shorts - longer than 9 minutes has a "happy" ending

^ idk Pocahontas ended pretty shyttie. No gold... No man... and tangled weave blowing in the wind

[Lazario]

NewsFlash: almost every Disney production - movies, television, shorts - longer than 9 minutes has a "happy" ending

^ idk Pocahontas ended pretty shyttie. No gold... No man... and tangled weave blowing in the wind

Not disagreeing, but, when I said "almost every," wouldn't you say that's making room for the odd Pocahontas?

Besides, I should have found a place in my post to mention the slight difference between classic Disney and the 80's and above Disney, since things did change a bit about a decade after Walt died. The Rescuers was the first feature film to really start pushing animated features in a new direction. (And I noticed that the look for the mice in Don Bluth's early movies really started here. I have to assume, as a result, that he worked on this movie.)

[Christopher_TCUIH]

Ah geez I didn't even notice "almost every" just ignore all of that hah sorry

[Super Aurora]

You don't remember our last discussion on this movie at all, do you?

Of course I do. How could I forget.

It began with you arguing that this movie had a scene where the story was telling the audience that the kingdom in the movie was joyously celebrating Aurora's birthday (Dr. F called it her "Christening" though the movie chooses not to say that word) with full song and yet it wasn't trying to make the audience feel warm and happy.

No, I said that it was bland and card boarded and that the song was dull. That doesn't mean the scene wasn't or the scene that comes shortly after isn't "warm and fuzzy" as you call it.

The "Christianing" itself inside the throne room and right before Mally shows up is so blatant of that "warm and fuzzy" feeling that you now so oddly seems to find overrated in Disney films. Yet you say Sleeping Beauty is an exception to the rule?

that the film is very unlike most Disney films and that it doesn't try to make people feel warm. This is true for nearly every scene of the film.

That where I'm finding that hard to buy. Especially saying that in comparison to every other single Disney movie that you seems to say have it.

You didn't disagree or attempt to contradict that opinion in any way.

Cause I never bother to focus on the subject at the time nor did I realize you would say in the future that Sleeping Beauty is the exception to the "Disney rule of having warm and fuzzy feeling" compared to rest of 48 Disney canon films.

You're just now choosing to argue the opposite?

I never said such to begin with.

And, what's more, all you have to support your argument is a single quote from the movie?? NewsFlash: almost every Disney production - movies, television, shorts - longer than 9 minutes has a "happy" ending (an ending where the "good" characters vanquish the "evil"). Your point is... ?

I brought up one quote but if you want me bring in more I can if you want.


My point is that you're contradicting yourself or rather delusion yourself in saying that Sleeping Beauty is an exception to this so call, "warm and fuzzy feeling" that so many other Disney movies have. besides SB, You said Pinocchio which I do agree with to extent of that labeling, however you seems to think every other film has the "overrated warm and fuzzy feeling cliche"

Tell me, by this statement you made, what makes SB be the exception to films like Fantasia, Sleepy Hallow, Alice in Wonderland, Black Cauldron, Atlantis, or Hunchback of Notre Dame to name a few? Those ones seems to fit your category that SB and Pinocchio holds.

The way I see it, you seem to just have a bias view on SB. It seems to be case in how much you praise it . While it ok to think it the best thing ever since slice bread for you, I still find it pretty deeply contradictory in how you make it as if SB is a sole exception to this so called "overrated warm and fuzzy feeling" stigma Disney has. Almost as if SB is "perfect".



I just want to let you know I'm not doing this to "attack" you if you get that impression. I'm merely just questioning the logic in your claim. Let's still be civil and be good bros.

[Lazario]

Ah geez I didn't even notice "almost every" just ignore all of that hah sorry

I just want to let you know I'm not doing this to "attack" you if you get that impression. I'm merely just questioning the logic in your claim. Let's still be civil and be good bros.

Well, the definition of what is civil on this board has certainly changed in the past year. Hasn't it? This entire discussion has always been about each person's impression of the movie. So, we have to actually get personal and criticize each other's personal views of the movie, etc.

With that in mind, I think you have a very narrow definiton of the Disney warmth I was talking about. By the way you state your argument, I think you define Disney warmth as any scene that isn't pushing conflict ahead in a direct manner. And so, sure, that would make many scenes in the film fit your definition. But not mine. And you're attempting to criticize my definition. Sleeping Beauty has a vast array of tones, several of which are present in other Disney films. You took me far too literally in my saying Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty are the best examples of films that break the Disney Warmth formula. I never said they were the only ones, you're the one saying I did.

Disney has a lot of modes and tones in their movies. Not all of which are infected with what I'll call the "Garnish areas" where Disney would use overly gentle happy music or pastel colors and drippy sentimental tones to pillow people in their seats and comfort their senses. Sometimes they would use characters' intelligence rather than simplicity to propel their storytelling forward, which is rare but it happened. For example, the scene of Roger and Anita living happily in their new home in 101 Dalmatians. They simply showed the people and used the characters and their dialogue to tell you how they were happy. Although, the church in the scene previous was a form of manipulation. So, there are manipulations like that scattered throughout most Disney animated films. So many, in fact, that there are some so subtle I didn't even notice. As I pointed out when talking Cinderella with Duster, I just plain linked him to a review that was able to actually trace the way Disney animated the castle to Cinderella's living situation as suggestions of the character's regressive psyche and chaste sexuality. Which meant that she actively sought out a passive place in her relationship... because that's the way Disney wanted it. Which of course means she could never be a real character because the animators were already setting boundaries on how human she could be.

Anyway, I'm saying there are lots of Disney movies that break this formula in places. Or, hell, are better for being warm and fuzzy- Dumbo. Other great examples are The Jungle Book and Alice in Wonderland. But they also surely fit the formula too. Fantasia may be one of Disney's most brazenly unique films but, could the scene with the Centaurs / Centaurettes possibly be more "cutesy"? It borders on vomit-inducing. Which, even though the colors are still beautiful and the music is still so elegant and exquisite that it's hard to fault the movie as a whole, is why I've never counted the film as being in Disney's Top 5 best animated films. Other than the fact that it's too old fasioned, includes no same-gender pairings (and yeah we know why), and at one point included a black slave Centaurette not good enough to be paired with a mate but good enough to trim the others' hooves, it's a sequence pushing Disney's agenda of sexless relationships and garnished with frickin' naked-baby cupids. Then, just look at how the scene plays out. They couldn't make this thing more precious if tried.

It would take me HOURS to fully document what I mean by garnish areas but, right now, I've got the clip of "Ev'rybody Wants to Be a Cat" from The Artistocats playing (just to help me stay in the Disney mood) and I literally just found another example while not even trying to. Thomas merely references how the "scene" of his romance with Duchess is magical by mentioning other cats watching them and we cut to the film actually showing us cats "serenading" them by looking up in blank-eyed (and blank-headed) adoration. (I say serenade, even though that's not the correct use of the word, in another context: Disney is certainly serenading the characters through these pieces of decoration. I say pieces of decoration because these cats should be counted as other characters but instead they're manipulations. In this kind of moment, Disney's directors / animators aren't trusting the audience to find this scene that magical on their own. They're needlessly, and perhaps even insultingly, embellishing it. Not that this one scene is in any way exclusive. I think if we look close enough, we could see entire movies as being insulting- Cinderella and Bambi being some of the best examples, I think, of being so superficially observational that they lack any depth.)

Considering all of this, you can't possibly hold Sleeping Beauty to the same standards. First of all, the movie is really about good vs. evil and the Three Fairies and Maleficent. Not Aurora. Not Phillip. Not their marriage or any babies that might have been planned for them. You can't see the kingdom people's faces, so they're not being used as cheap manipulation for the tradition / routine formulas of happy ending and placid opening and the film does not hit checkpoints like Cinderella or Snow White or Lady and the Tramp, etc. I'm not talking about flat story points. I'm talking about how the movie tells the story. It is a unique film and does break formula tonally.

[tsom]

1. Snow White- Just by Disney enthusiast. Mainly because it was the first. I think the general public just finds it boring though.

2. The Lion King- Ugh! Everybody and their mother just LOVE this movie. People have told me how much it changed their lives. Why? Just read Hamlet and it's pretty much the same thing. It's a great movie though!

3. Beauty and the Beast- No offense, but Belle fans make me mad, especially when they say she's the smartest princess just because she's brunette and reads books. I didn't like this one until I was old enough to understand and appreciate it, especially the romance. It's a great love story. Every time I watch it, I'm reminded of Pride & Prejudice for some reason.

4. Pixar- Enough said.

5. Aladdin

[5star]

Aladdin- Apart from ''A whole new world'' (and jasmine)what was so good about this movie??

And Most Pixar movies..

[Dr Frankenollie]

Aladdin- Apart from ''A whole new world'' (and jasmine)what was so good about this movie??

The colourful and positively perfect animation, witty lyrics/memorable music in each song, great voice cast, hilarious jokes, well-rounded and well-designed characters, and finally the fact that it features Disney's greatest and most likable hero. I don't understand why you think Jasmine is better than all of these things.

And Most Pixar movies..

Why?

[PixarFan2006]

t;]And Most Pixar movies..

Why?

I agree. I enjoy all Pixar films, even *shudders* Cars 2 (for its animation). Sure, they may all have the cliche emotional storylines (Except for maybe The Incredibles and Cars 2), but so do a lot of traditional Disney films (and no, I am NOT hating on Disney films here, I am just proving a point).

Anyways, back to the topic, I would really consider putting Cinderella as my top overrated movie. Sorry guys, but It just bores me to death thinking about it.

[jpanimation]

Aladdin- Apart from ''A whole new world'' (and jasmine)what was so good about this movie??

The colourful and positively perfect animation, witty lyrics/memorable music in each song, great voice cast, hilarious jokes, well-rounded and well-designed characters, and finally the fact that it features Disney's greatest and most likable hero. I don't understand why you think Jasmine is better than all of these things.

Couldn't have said it better myself, seriously, this film simply exudes appeal.

[Dr Frankenollie]

Couldn't have said it better myself, seriously, this film simply exudes appeal.

Thanks.

In my first post in this thread, I said that I felt Sleeping Beauty, Lady and the Tramp and The Little Mermaid are overrated; after fairly recent viewings, I now believe that the latter two are fantastic and can't be rated highly enough, and as for Sleeping Beauty, Philip and Aurora may be bland, but that is really my only problem with the movie. However, I still see The Lion King as somewhat overrated.

[Mooky]

Tangled – It's a good, fun film, but nowhere near the masterpiece most people make it out to be. For starters, it's terribly derivative of not only Disney's own previous works, but other animated films as well, bordering on rip-off territory in some cases. Then there's the whole issue of nonsensical/abstract plot points, stock characters and wide spectrum of clichés used. The songs and score pieces (bar one) are less-than-stellar, and the worst of the bunch, the corniest, sappiest, dullest song ever heard in an animated musical -- and that's including Sony Wonder's and Jetlag Productions' DTV fare -- for some reason gets the most love from the fans. Say what you will about The Princess and the Frog (which, no doubt, is at least partially responsible for Tangled's success, and yet gets no credit whatsoever for it), but even though it too relied on Disney tropes and left much to be desired, it did it in a more memorable way and it came out more impressive and remarkable in the end, even if for seemingly trivial reasons such as the race of the heroine.

Pocahontas – This one irks me the most. It's supposedly the most adult-oriented of Disney films due to its realistic, sophisticated portrayal of characters/love story. Nope, it's as every bit as idealistically romantic as any other Disney love story, if not even more – at least with other films you're very well aware you're watching fantasy; Pocahontas tries to masquerade itself as a 'serious' film. And just because the title character acts way too rigid for her age, that doesn't make her (or the movie) mature. Pocahontas doesn't act much differently than Ariel (who, for whatever reason, is often labeled as the most foolish, immature Disney princess); in fact, she makes pretty much the same "mistakes" as Ariel. Don't even get me started on John Smith... Actually, the more I think about it, the movie is basically Disney's own Twilight: something that's mildly entertaining and designed as a sweeping, romantic epic in scope but ultimately holds no deeper meaning and is over-hyped, from its bland Mary Sue and Gary Stu leads (and Kocoum as Jacob Black) all the way down to the poorly executed characters and plot. Add an unconvincing combination of comedy and drama, ridiculous plot resolutions, bastardization of history and you're in for a treat. For what it's worth, it's got great music and visuals and the ending scene gives me chills every time even if the rest of the movie doesn't.

[Disney's Divinity]

Aladdin- Apart from ''A whole new world'' (and jasmine)what was so good about this movie??

The colourful and positively perfect animation, witty lyrics/memorable music in each song, great voice cast, hilarious jokes, well-rounded and well-designed characters, and finally the fact that it features Disney's greatest and most likable hero. I don't understand why you think Jasmine is better than all of these things.

I won't pile on 5star since I'm fairly ambivalent towards Aladdin (besides the protagonist, the music, and scenes from the climax), but I personally felt Jasmine was the worst part about the film. Divergent tastes there.

[Lazario]

Pocahontas – This one irks me the most. It's supposedly the most adult-oriented of Disney films due to its realistic, sophisticated portrayal of characters/love story. Nope, it's as every bit as idealistically romantic as any other Disney love story, if not even more – at least with other films you're very well aware you're watching fantasy; Pocahontas tries to masquerade itself as a 'serious' film. And just because the title character acts way too rigid for her age, that doesn't make her (or the movie) mature. Pocahontas doesn't act much differently than Ariel (who, for whatever reason, is often labeled as the most foolish, immature Disney princess); in fact, she makes pretty much the same "mistakes" as Ariel. Don't even get me started on John Smith... Actually, the more I think about it, the movie is basically Disney's own Twilight: something that's mildly entertaining and designed as a sweeping, romantic epic in scope but ultimately holds no deeper meaning and is over-hyped, from its bland Mary Sue and Gary Stu leads (and Kocoum as Jacob Black) all the way down to the poorly executed characters and plot. Add an unconvincing combination of comedy and drama, ridiculous plot resolutions, bastardization of history and you're in for a treat. For what it's worth, it's got great music and visuals and the ending scene gives me chills every time even if the rest of the movie doesn't.

Nice disemboweling job. Too bad you picked a movie that is generally disliked by movie fans.

I also disagree with you on Princess and the Frog vs. Tangled. Tangled is easily the more memorable and impressive film.