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[Dr Frankenollie]

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[Flanger-Hanger]

Before I even saw the first post I thought of Hunchback for the gargoyles, or even just Hugo, but then I realised there are some other things in that movie that bother me too (cartoonish chase/battle scenes) that might not be resolved by just eliminating the gargoyles.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the child actors in Poppins or Bedknobs, or the songs in Lady and the Tramp, could you elaborate on those points?

Agree about Aurora and Phillip. I'll stick with my suggestion to cut back on the fairy cottage stuff in order to give them more time without making the movie longer.

[Persephone]

Hunchback of Notre Dame. Those stupid gargoyles were unnecessary and only added in for merchandising purposes.

[Super Aurora]

this is no such thing as perfection.




unfortunately.....

[Disney Duster]

Agree about Aurora and Phillip. I'll stick with my suggestion to cut back on the fairy cottage stuff in order to give them more time without making the movie longer.

Hm...I would say it instead should be a balance of cutting only a little bit of the fairies in the cottage stuff and changing some of the Aurora and Phillip in the woods stuff, i.e. how about if instead of Aurora doing nothing but walking and singing with animals for an hour before she says what she wants, she says what she wants much sooner and she and Phillip spend more time together and they let out more personality and development through it all.

[WarriorDreamer]

I dunno, I think the gargoyles were put in just to remind people it's a Disney film. Every Disney film no matter what always seems to have some cartoony acspect of it. I agree that they kinda seemed a little unnessersary at times but then that's like saying 'take away Cinderella's mice' or 'take away abu from Aladdin' the characters need these sidekicks and helpers.

Plus, I kinda like the idea that they are just imaginary. That in real life they are just stone but Quasi sees them as real and talking to him.

this is no such thing as perfection.

Agree. No matter what you do, or how hard you try, you can never achieve absolute perfection.

[Miss Jo]

I think The Lion King would be perfect if only it weren't for the fart jokes involving Pumbaa.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Hm...I would say it instead should be a balance of cutting only a little bit of the fairies in the cottage stuff and changing some of the Aurora and Phillip in the woods stuff, i.e. how about if instead of Aurora doing nothing but walking and singing with animals for an hour before she says what she wants, she says what she wants much sooner and she and Phillip spend more time together and they let out more personality and development through it all.

I'd be fine with this too, so long as Aurora and Phillip get more screen time in general.

Plus, I kinda like the idea that they are just imaginary. That in real life they are just stone but Quasi sees them as real and talking to him.

But don't forget Djali saw Hugo too. I think they're more like the toys in Toy Story where they can change from static to alive when they want too.

[Lazario]

this is no such thing as perfection.




unfortunately.....

I kinda disagree. For example: how could Dumbo be even better than it already is?

[PatrickvD]

this is no such thing as perfection.




unfortunately.....

I kinda disagree. For example: how could Dumbo be even better than it already is?

with no racial stereotypes maybe?

[Lazario]

I've always considered people's ciriticisms of that aspect of Dumbo a cheapshot. Especially when you compare it to Song of the South. In Song of the South, the Br'er Bear character is portrayed as a complete dolt and an imbicile. Then: add cliched villain and cliched half-imbecilic protagonist. Their conflict is stupid, they are stupid. From what they say to what they do and that is an example of bad stereotyping. But not the crows. They're smart. Very smart. And they care. Do you really think changing their dialogue or costumes would make the movie better?

[PatrickvD]

Do you really think changing their dialogue or costumes would make the movie better?

Uhm, no. I'm just saying if they weren't stereotypes a whole lot of people wouldn't take offense to it. Personally, it doesn't bother me that much. Gone with the Wind is a classic and that had racial stereotypes. And seeing as how 'The Help' has now ruled the Box Office 3 weeks in a row (with the brilliant Viola Davis locked to win an oscar for playing 'mammy'), I guess the world has to live with African American stereotypes in movies.

It just drags the movie down a bit in my opinion. I'm not taking a 'cheap shot' at it. It's just how I feel. I mean, I can look at the racial stereotypes within the context of the times. Some people might not be and it will always be a stain. The film always comes up in discussions of racial stereotypes in films. Even Family Guy took what I considered an actual cheap shot at it.

Truth is, I generally love Dumbo. To tell a story so powerful in such a short running time, it's quite impressive. Unmatched by Disney's studio to this day.

[sunhuntin]

i dont mind the gargoyles much, but hate their stupid song. it annoyed me when it first came out, and it annoys me now.

[Super Aurora]

Agree about Aurora and Phillip. I'll stick with my suggestion to cut back on the fairy cottage stuff in order to give them more time without making the movie longer.

Hm...I would say it instead should be a balance of cutting only a little bit of the fairies in the cottage stuff and changing some of the Aurora and Phillip in the woods stuff, i.e. how about if instead of Aurora doing nothing but walking and singing with animals for an hour before she says what she wants, she says what she wants much sooner and she and Phillip spend more time together and they let out more personality and development through it all.

That and have them talk and contribute in second half of film too. By second half, both Aurora and Phillip gone mute.

this is no such thing as perfection.


unfortunately.....

I kinda disagree. For example: how could Dumbo be even better than it already is?

You always disagree with me. Nothing new and surprising.

[Scarred4life]

The gargoyles in Hunchback, obviously. I also think Mushu could use a complete redesign, to make him less obnoxious and annoying.

[Disney Duster]

That and have them talk and contribute in second half of film too. By second half, both Aurora and Phillip gone mute.

I think some of the beauty of the film is them being silent in the dramatic ending. Personality and development can come through even in silence. Look at Ariel in the middle of her film. Sleeping Beauty could do that, I'm sure.

[Super Aurora]

That and have them talk and contribute in second half of film too. By second half, both Aurora and Phillip gone mute.

I think some of the beauty of the film is them being silent in the dramatic ending. Personality and development can come through even in silence. Look at Ariel in the middle of her film. Sleeping Beauty could do that, I'm sure.

While that is true that pantomime can carry personality and development without speaking, unfortunately it doesn't seem to carry well in SB. With TLM, the mute Ariel is part of the story and thus mute Ariel works since she trying to create a relationship with Eric with a handicap.

With Aurora and Phillip, there is no reason for them to remain mute other than for artistic licenses which I don't think worked well. I mean everyone else got speaking roles in second half (minus the queen....-__-) except Aurora and Phillip.

[MattDean]

...Winnie The Pooh.

Flaw: SPOILER WARNING!



The main section of the film being a reaction to a misinterpreted note from CR. The note, even read the way Owl did, did not (really) suggest that CR had been taken away by a 'Backsoon' - if anything , as CR signed it, it merely suggested he had left of his own accord. "Gone away...busy...back soon...CR" How can that be interpreted as CR being, well, kidnapped by a 'backsoon'? It was a very weak misinterpretation and unfortunately a large portion of the film's action related directly to it. I have the DVD and watched the scene a couple of times thinking I'd missed the point but...well, if anyone can tell me where I'm going wrong - and I can be very dim! - I'd love to hear about it 'cos I'm a WTP fan!

Matt (who can currently be seen with his hands covering his head, to protect himself from the barrage of replies putting him right! ...I'm waiting!)

[Dr Frankenollie]

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[Disney Duster]

Super Aurora, I know what you mean, but I was talking about the specific point of how Ariel's personality came through even in silence. I was saying that perhaps Phillip and Aurora could have stayed silent for emotional beauty and just let their emotions and who they are be seen in the drawings. Maybe they could have said one or two lines but I don't even know if that would be needed if they could only pull off what I'm talking about, even if it's hard.

Another thing is that if Phillip and Aurora had very memorable personalities before the end, they wouldn't need to talk because they already did enough for us to care for them for the whole rest of the movie, silent or not.