How to be Tactful at the UltimateDisney/DVDizzy Forums

[AwallaceUNC]

And you couldn't take it. You had to rush back in and defend yourself. No one is allowed to say even the slightest thing critical about you.

This is correct. No one is permitted to use this forum to lobby personal criticisms against anyone else on this forum, and that includes Goliath. Neither he nor any other forum member here is expected to "take it."

Goliathcan be a bastard at times.

This is a glaring personal attack and in clear violation of forum rules. Moderators shouldn't need to point out something so obvious, especially when it is laid out clearly and repeatedly in the guidelines at the top of the forum, but this is an official warning from this site's moderator team: personal attacks like this one will not be tolerated and you are advised to ensure that each of your posts going forward is entirely free of them.

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I'll allow this thread to stay open for now but if there are additional posts in the spirit of those quoted above, it will be closed. Closing a thread encouraging forum civility because of forum incivility would be unfortunate to say the least.

I advise everyone participating in this thread and in all others on this site's discussion boards to immediately cease with all personal attacks. Please read your posts before submitting it and ask yourself if it includes any negative personal content addressed to or commenting on another forum member. If it does, do not submit it. If you are unsure, contact a moderator first. Err on the side of civility. As a registered forum member participating in discussion threads here, you are expected to ensure that your posts comply with forum guidelines and are free of personal attacks before you submit them.

Your continued participation in these forums is dependent on your ability to comply with the simple and clear forum guidelines that govern this community. Moderators should not and will not spend time sending repeated warnings to members who willfully violate those guidelines and persist with personal attacks even after warnings have been issued. This goes for all registered forum members here.

Finally, Lazario and Goliath, you are advised to bring the negative, personal back-and-forth between the two of you to an immediate and civil end, both in this thread and all others on this site. You have each received multiple warnings. No matter how vehemently you may disagree or find one another to your disliking, you are not permitted to use this forum to express your personal criticisms of one another. If you cannot respond to one another with civility and in compliance with forum guidelines, then do not respond at all. If this ongoing series of hostile posting and personal attacks does not come to an end, I will forward this situation for more resolute administrative consideration.

[Goliath]

I'll allow this thread to stay open for now but if there are additional posts in the spirit of those quoted above, it will be closed. Closing a thread encouraging forum civility because of forum incivility would be unfortunate to say the least.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of irony, but that would be taking it a bit too far.

[Lazario]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about with that ^.

Essentially, it means "some people need to get off their soapboxes and accept the fact that they have as little proof to their beliefs as the other guy.

What beliefs are you talking about? That people have the right to be treated with respect- so there should not be any opinions dictating superiority or labeling people 2nd class citizens because of their gender, race, sexual orientation, body type, etc.? Or are you trying to edge this back into opinions about movies, music, and TV? Because, again, that's not what I'm talking about. Other people (Escapay, Wondy, enigmawing) have already adequately handled that side of UD discussion.

I know every thing Iceflash was saying in that reply was a reaction to my comment: "some people on UD need to grow up." There's no such thing as a soapbox in regard to respect for a person's differences. That's what I was talking about. There's no such thing as beliefs when it comes to how a person is treated. And there have been UD'ers past and present who do think they have the right to look down on other people for trivial reasons. And all I said anyway was that's NOT the UD I want to be a part of. I said I don't think anyone has to put up with that.

I don't think you understood me. In fact, you purposefully ignored where I made sure to outline the kind of person I'm talking about on UD, the people who need to grow up.

Yeah, but you didnt even mention Goliath.

I'm sure it was because I was anticipating a reply from a forum moderator.

You *do* realize that most people who act like that are actually grown-ups, right? That, my friend, poses an insult to children everywhere and is logically regarded as "age discrimination".

That is a brilliant observation. I guess that's what I wanted to say too. Only not in a humorous context.

I can't stand it when people lie.

Just to correct a point, for the sake of accuracy and nothing more:
I haven't told a single lie about Goliath.

[The_Iceflash]

Lazario, remember my signature and what it means? That's the point I was trying to make. One person's posts and actions towards another on here, like the example you gave, doesn't make ok for someone else to stoop to their level and treat them the same way. It doesn't make it ok for anyone else to feed into it or react in a way they expect us too. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's not about tolerating things we think are not tolerable. It's exactly the point I made with my signature.

[Lazario]

I can't argue with that. It's true.

But I can defend my own position. I just don't see pointing out bad behavior as being the same as stooping to anyone else's level. If people are going to engage in discussion here, we should all try to be grown-up (and not say things like "that makes me sad" or make something personal only to blame the other person, etc).

[The_Iceflash]

I can't argue with that. It's true.

But I can defend my own position. I just don't see pointing out bad behavior as being the same as stooping to anyone else's level. If people are going to engage in discussion here, we should all try to be grown-up (and not say things like "that makes me sad" or make something personal only to blame the other person, etc).

That's because it's not the same. You can point out one's bad behavior with out stooping to their level and personally attacking anyone. The reason why a lot of these sorts or threads are being closed and why tempers are flaring is because of it.

[Lazario]

I haven't crossed any lines whatsoever in terms of actually attacking anyone. The DVDjunkie thing was nothing more than an analogy- an example of similar insensitivity. Not to be taken as an accusation that he was an alcoholic.

I know this is defensive. But it's also true. With all the accusations flying around, I refuse to be taken out of context. By anyone.

[The_Iceflash]

I haven't crossed any lines whatsoever in terms of actually attacking anyone. The DVDjunkie thing was nothing more than an analogy- an example of similar insensitivity. Not to be taken as an accusation that he was an alcoholic.

I know this is defensive. But it's also true. With all the accusations flying around, I refuse to be taken out of context. By anyone.

I'm not saying you did. I'm not saying you as in you personally. When I said "you" I meant generally speaking. One can point out one's bad behavior with out stooping to their level and personally attacking anyone. I then said that was the reason threads of that sort is being closed. I'm not saying you personally are responsible for it.

While we're on the subject of being taken out of context and that sort of thing, that's happened to me before in the forums. I've also had "hidden agendas" and "assumptions" pulled out of my posts. Can't say I appreciate that so I do feel where you're coming from with that.

Also, the general vibe in the off-topic politics threads that while it's obviously very biased (I'm an independent and a moderate so it doesn't bother me too bad) only one side has any sort of validity and are welcome. That's the point I was making earlier when I was using the American Democracy in serious danger thread as an example. Being biased isn't the problem but the attitudes toward any UD member who isn't a member of the same party, etc.

[Lazario]

I'm not saying you did. I'm not saying you as in you personally. When I said "you" I meant generally speaking. One can point out one's bad behavior with out stooping to their level and personally attacking anyone. I then said that was the reason threads of that sort is being closed. I'm not saying you personally are responsible for it.

Thank you for that.

While we're on the subject of being taken out of context and that sort of thing, that's happened to me before in the forums. I've also had "hidden agendas" and "assumptions" pulled out of my posts. Can't say I appreciate that so I do feel where you're coming from with that.

Ouch... I do believe that I'm responsible for one of those. The first time we spoke on an off-topic thread about politics. After x-many years of the conservatives on UD, a person can start to smell smoke where there isn't any. At any rate, I have to admit you've been very good at your suggestions in this thread in particular and I can learn from them.

Also, the general vibe in the off-topic politics threads that while it's obviously very biased (I'm an independent and a moderate so it doesn't bother me too bad) only one side has any sort of validity and are welcome. That's the point I was making earlier when I was using the American Democracy in serious danger thread as an example. Being biased isn't the problem but the attitudes toward any UD member who isn't a member of the same party, etc.

I don't see many right-leaning UD'ers speaking out too much anyway. When they do, they seem almost shocked that so many UD'ers don't share those same views. Or they go into what I like to call Blissful Unawareness and just spew bile without looking to see where it lands. I've actually seen that happen here. And while I was watching, I sure didn't see any part of those people giving a damn what anyone else thought. I wouldn't say that's part of the childish behavior Ajmrowland was talking about. Maybe I give this rare type of person too much credit.

[The_Iceflash]

See, I like how we're discussing and clearing all this up.

[Lazario]

Well, clearly we're both reasonable and rational UD members. Neither of us are troublemakers and we care about the forum.

[The_Iceflash]

Ok, the hostility around the forum has gotten waaay out of line around here. IMO, there's NO excuse for it whatsoever. I haven't been posting much in threads lately because it is so hostile. What can we do to fix this?

[Goliath]

Ok, the hostility around the forum has gotten waaay out of line around here. IMO, there's NO excuse for it whatsoever. I haven't been posting much in threads lately because it is so hostile. What can we do to fix this?

Is there much hostility? Other than me telling Julian to go fuck himself over his hateful comments about divorce, I haven't seen any hostility. And that was only an hour ago. So aren't you over-dramatizing?

[Super Aurora]

guys......guys.....































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[Jackoleen]

Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

I'M ALWAYS a perfect little lady here!

Thank you in advance for your replies.

[Jules]

Is there much hostility? Other than me telling Julian to go fuck himself over his hateful comments about divorce, I haven't seen any hostility.

Are you for real!? To think I actually admired you and always looked up to your writing.

[CJ]

Is there much hostility? Other than me telling Julian to go fuck himself over his hateful comments about divorce, I haven't seen any hostility.

Are you for real!? To think I actually admired you and always looked up to your writing.

I highly suggest the two of you drop this subject. Continuing the conversation from a locked thread is circumventing moderation. Which is something the both of you know is against the rules. If you must continue, take it to email or private messaging. Consider yourselves warned.

[Goliath]

Goliath, consider yourself officially warned. I don't care that you disagree with Julian Carter. Take a look at this thread -- a number of people have. But they have not done so in as an offensive and vulgar matter as you. This is not a case of being "prudish"; this is simply not how you speak to people in a public setting. I don't care that this is an online forum. General social conventions still apply.

Well, that's typical, isn't it? I've seen posts on UD by long-time members and newbies alike, time and again, filled with homophobic, racist or anti-semetic comments. But I've never seen any of them being publically warned. Somehow, when you insult others in a 'polite' way, you don't get called out because of that. It seems like you can make derogatory comments about entire groups of people, as long as you do it in a 'nice' way. As if adding "in my opinion" means everything is fair game. But when somebody, like me, calls them out on it in a blunt, no-nonsense way, they get 'officially warned'.

I have bee warned because of what I said to Julian Carter. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to pretend that his comments were just 'another opinion' that we can simply 'agree to disagree' on, like it was a discussion on music or movies or some other mundane subject. We were discussing human rights. Julian had been belitteling, ridiculing and making light of my personal story (and that of Disney's Divinity, too --sorry to drag you into it, DD, as you have been far more politely than me), but because he did it in a 'polite' way, no-one is allowed to call him out on it?

[Dr Frankenollie]

Opinions are NOT Fact

This is one of the most common mistakes not just on the internet but on the real world as well. People believe that opinion is indeed fact, that the way they view a particular topic must be the right way. After all, it makes sense to them, right? So why doesn't it make sense to someone else? Obviously, they don't understand it how you do.

Don't ever think that way. When we do, and our opinion conflicts with another's, it can lead to people fighting about it as if it were the end of the world.

Want to know the difference between fact and opinion?

• Fact: The four seasons are Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter.
  
  Opinion: Winter stinks. Save for Christmas, I hate the snow and the cold.

See? Fact confirms a truth, something that can't be denied regardless of what anyone says. Opinion, however, is the complete opposite. They are formed out of the thoughts, beliefs and knowledge of a person. They represent the ideas of said individual, and those CAN be debated.

What if someone said that: "In my opinion, Citizen Kane has brilliant cinematography and revolutionised cinema." Then what if someone else said: "Citizen Kane has awful cinematography!"

The first person stated both a fact and an opinion, so I don't completely agree with you.

As a sidenote, I hate it when people say "everyone is entitled to their own opinion." No, everyone is entitled to their own informed opinion. Somebody who hasn't read a single poem by William Blake can't claim that his work is good or bad.

Also, I especially despise the thrase "all opinions are equal". No they're not. A film critic who has seen thousands of movies has a superior opinion on what the greatest movie of all time is rather than somebody who has only seen three Rob Schneider movies.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

[Sotiris]

Well, that's typical, isn't it? I've seen posts on UD by long-time members and newbies alike, time and again, filled with homophobic, racist or anti-semetic comments. But I've never seen any of them being publically warned. Somehow, when you insult others in a 'polite' way, you don't get called out because of that. It seems like you can make derogatory comments about entire groups of people, as long as you do it in a 'nice' way.

Goliath has a point here. Some members' "opinions" are really nothing but hate speech. This should eventually be dealt with and not pretend it doesn't happen.