Pomp and Circumstance originally had Disney royals' children

[Disney Duster]

I didn't know what thread to put this in, I just wanted to alert people to it on it's own first.

From Jim Hill Media,

... which is getting to see the story reel for the first version of "Pomp & Circumstances" that Disney animators proposed for "Fantasia 2000." Which supposedly features the too-cute-to-be-believed concept of every Disney princesses & prince marching in (to Sir Edward Elgar's music, of course) into this grand cathedral. Where they then presented their sons & daughters to an audience full of Disney characters.

Has anyone out there actually seen this footage? I'm told that Dave Bossert recently showed this work-in-progress version of "Pomp & Circumstances" to an audience full of animation fans on the Disney Cruise Line. If you saw this piece of animation, what was it like? What do you remember from the piece?

I have to admit, I'm glad they went with something more fitting for Fantasia...but I love the very idea of this, and I really want to see it!

[DisneyJedi]

Even though I love what we got now, I would have loved to see this version.

[jpanimation]

To me, this is the weakest segment in Fantasia 2000 (easily eclipsed by The Sorcerer's Apprentice). I know using this music for a segment was all Eisner's idea and to me it was a terrible one. I just didn't care for it, same with the crappy whale and butterfly segments.

I think this princess version would've not only been distracting, but equally awful. I though the images they present with the music were artistic expression, not advertising.

[UmbrellaFish]

That's.... interesting.

It could have been beautiful, or as jpanimation said, distracting.

[Wonderlicious]

I already knew about this concept, and I believe there was another similar idea that just featured the characters sitting in a grand theatre watching a performance. I'm not too sure about whether I would have wanted to see the princesses presenting their children; it does seem a bit too sweet, and of course, it would have implied that all those sweet virgins had been corrupted. However, I always get a kick out of random Disney characters appearing together, so I probably would have been able to get some joy out of it.

[Disney's Divinity]

I would've enjoyed it for two reasons:

1. I've always loved when they combine the various movie characters together (puzzles, posters, TV shows, movies, etc.).

2. I would've liked to have seen what their children might look like, how they would design them, and so on. Of course, I wouldn't say it was "canon" considering the people who designed these characters would probably have no say so, but it would be interesting.

Admittedly, it doesn't sound like it would gel with a Fantasia, but at the same time we've had segments on Mickey and Donald, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

[Goliath]

To me, this is the weakest segment in Fantasia 2000 (easily eclipsed by The Sorcerer's Apprentice). I know using this music for a segment was all Eisner's idea and to me it was a terrible one. I just didn't care for it, same with the crappy whale and butterfly segments.

Agreed on all points; I disliked those sequences too.

I think this princess version would've not only been distracting, but equally awful. I though the images they present with the music were artistic expression, not advertising.

Not only that, but I always hate it when random Disney characters are featured in the same scene. Unless it's something like Who Framed Roger Rabbit or Bonkers, in which they are depicted as merely actors, I don't like the fact that characters from totally different time periods interact with each other.

[Disney Duster]

it would have implied that all those sweet virgins had been corrupted.

The King wanted Cinderella and the Prince to make grandchildren as soon as possible!

Also, know anything else about that other version with the theater performance, or where I could hear it?

Divinity, yes, I would want to see it so much for those reasons, especially the design one, and I wouldn't consider it canon either. But I also would love to see it because it could show a very beautiful moment of happily ever after for some of our most beloved, dreamed about characters.

Goliath, yes, the time period thing is a point I agree on, but I think Mickey being in different things and Donald being...Noah...goes along with how what happens in Fantasia isn't necessarily "the truth" but a dreamy, experimental, hypothetical string of moments unrelated to each other or any other film or short.

[Tristy]

I'm going to have to go with Eric Goldberg's quoting of Ward Kimball on this one: "It's one big commercial!" That's definitely what it is. And i don't want to see babies from Snow White and Aurora. I mean seeing Ariel having a child was bad enough.

[Super Aurora]

Not only that, but I always hate it when random Disney characters are featured in the same scene. Unless it's something like Who Framed Roger Rabbit or Bonkers, in which they are depicted as merely actors, I don't like the fact that characters from totally different time periods interact with each other.

So does that mean you dislike Disney's House of Mouse as well?

it would have implied that all those sweet virgins had been corrupted.

The King wanted Cinderella and the Prince to make grandchildren as soon as possible!.

King Hubert from Sleeping Beauty also wanted grandchildren quickly as possible too.

[Goliath]

Not only that, but I always hate it when random Disney characters are featured in the same scene. Unless it's something like Who Framed Roger Rabbit or Bonkers, in which they are depicted as merely actors, I don't like the fact that characters from totally different time periods interact with each other.

So does that mean you dislike Disney's House of Mouse as well?

You mean, apart from the fact that it was poorly animated; recycled lousy executed MMW shorts; had weak 'frame' stories; and included cringe-worthy 'musical performances' from some of the Disney gang? Yes.

[Sotiris]

BUMP!

"You have to understand that every other sequence that we were considering for 'Fantasia Continued' at that time was art for art's sake. We were always looking to marry a great piece of music with stunning visuals to then create this memorable movie-going experience," David Bossert explained. "And what Michael was asking us to do with 'Pomp and Circumstance' was kind of out of step with the rest of this film. His Disney Princess procession idea was almost nakedly commercial."

But - again -- because it was their then-Boss who suggested this idea, the "Fantasia Continued" production team gave it the old college try. George Scribner (best known as the director of Disney's 1988 animated feature, "Oliver and Company") was assigned to develop a story of the Disney Princess version of "Pomp and Circumstance." And from what David tells me, George did the very best that he could with this concept. Creating a pretty entertaining storyreel.

"As I recall, this sequence was set outside. And the Disney Princesses that were supposed to appear in 'Pomp and Circumstance' started with Snow White and then went all the way up to Princess Jasmine in 'Aladdin (Disney Special Platinum Edition) ,' " Bossert continued. "And as they all marched along with their princes and their children, you'd then get these quick cameo appearances by other famous Disney characters."

Which brings us to the other gimmick that was supposed to have been associated with this Disney Princess-based version of "Pomp and Circumstance." In that this proposed sequence was going to be the part of "Fantasia Continued" which would have featured scenes that were animated by genuine Disney Legends.

To be specific, Disney wanted to recruit the surviving members of the Nine Old Men (which - at that time - were Marc Davis, Ollie Johnston, Ward Kimball and Frank Thomas) to come work on "Pomp and Circumstance." With the idea that each of these legendary animators would animate one short scene which starred their signature Disney character.

"As I recall, Marc was going to animate a scene featuring Tinker Bell. Ward was supposed to animate a scene with Jiminy Cricket. They wanted Frank to do something with the Fairies from 'Sleeping Beauty. And I don't remember what Ollie was supposed to have done," Dave continued.

Now these scenes that were to be animated by the surviving Nine Old Men were then supposed to be folded in with footage that had been created by the modern masters of Disney hand-drawn animation. We're talking about super-talented people like Glen Keane and Andreas Deja, who'd create cameos for the most famous Disney characters that they'd ever worked on, like Ariel from "The Little Mermaid" and Scar from "The Lion King."

"A lot of the comedy in this version of 'Pomp and Circumstance' was to have come from Donald Duck. Who was wreaking havoc behind-the-scenes because he was attempting to get his hands on that magic hat that Mickey wears in 'The Sorcerer's Apprentice,' " Bossert said. "But if I'm remembering this storyreel correctly, there was a quick scene where you got to see the Fab Five all standing together. And another one where you saw a number of the Villains observing this Disney Princess processional from a distance."

Now you have to admit that the idea of a musical number -- which was supposed to be animated by the very best animators, past and present -- that featured every animated Disney character ever created does sound kind of cool. So why didn't this version of "Pomp and Circumstance" actually go into production?

To answer that part of the question ... I must now launch into a somewhat adult story. Which I want to stress that I DID NOT hear from David Bossert. But - rather - from someone who was actually in the room when the Disney Princess version of 'Pomp and Circumstance' hit the skids.

To explain: When the folks at Walt Disney Animation Studios decided that they seriously wanted to pursue this idea of having the surviving Nine Old Men come in & work on "Fantasia Continued," they then staged this elaborate pitch meeting. Where Marc, Ollie, Ward and Frank were all limoed onto the Disney Lot and then taken into this room that was loaded with concept art for the "Fantasia" follow-up.

And given that Michael Eisner had come up with the original Disney Princess / "Pomp and Circumstance" concept ... Well, he made a point of sitting in on this particular pitch meeting as well.

Anyway ... After everyone was served a light lunch, the formal pitch for this proposed "Fantasia Continued" sequence began. And at some point, the lights were turned down and the Disney Princess "Pomp and Circumstance" storyreel was shown. Afterwards, the room was deadly silent. Marc, Frank and Ollie shot each other sidelong glances, wondering what they should say.

But leave it to the always bombastic Ward Kimball to break the silence. Who reportedly said to the entire room: "That's the stupidest f*cking idea I've ever heard."

Needless to say, the idea of bringing the surviving Nine Old Men back on the Lot to work on this project died that afternoon. And shortly after this infamous story pitch, the "Fantasia Continued" production team began casting around for an entirely new story concept for this film's "Pomp and Circumstance" sequence.

"But you have to understand that this is how the development process at Disney Animation works. Not every idea that we come up with works. But we keep refining things, trying different ideas, different combinations of characters until we eventually do come up with something that works," Bossert stated. "I honestly don't know if we would have come up with the idea of making Donald Duck Noah's assistant - which is the concept that we eventually used for 'Pomp and Circumstance" in the final version of 'Fantasia 2000' - if we hadn't first explored that idea of Donald being the character who was causing all of those problems behind-the-scenes during the Disney Princess processional version of this sequence."

The other thing that's great about Disney is that - while an idea may not always work out for feature animation - it can eventually find new life in another part of the Company. Do you recall that Donald-trying-to-get-his-hands-on-the-magic-hat-from-the-Sorcerer's-Apprentice story thread? Does that concept sound familiar? It should. WDI took that idea and ran with it while it was developing "Mickey's PhilharMagic" for the Parks in the early 2000s.

And - yes - just in case you're wondering. It was George Scribner who not only developed the storyreel for "Mickey's PhilharMagic," but he also wound up directing this 3D Theme Park Productions film.

as part of a "Fantasia" - themed presentation that Bossert gave on the Disney Cruise Line back in 2009, he screened this version of the "Pomp and Circumstance" storyreel. And the results were ... Well, mixed.

"Some people in the audience laughed because they were really enjoying what they were watching. But then there were these laughs that came in very weird places. Which meant that there were people out in the audience who were laughing AT the movie. Rather than laughing with it," David said.

Source: http://jimhillmedia.com/editor_in_chief ... o-see.aspx

[PatrickvD]

But leave it to the always bombastic Ward Kimball to break the silence. Who reportedly said to the entire room: "That's the stupidest f*cking idea I've ever heard."

Amen!

I would have payed big money to have been in that room just to see the look on Eisner's face.

[Sky Syndrome]

I can't imagine Disney villians attending the ceremony to merely stand around and watch the procession. They'd wreck it so they can look back on it and think it was a darn good ceremony thanks to them rescuing it from being mundane.

[DisneyAnimation88]

I'm not too sure about whether I would have wanted to see the princesses presenting their children; it does seem a bit too sweet, and of course, it would have implied that all those sweet virgins had been corrupted.

According to the book "DisneyWar", this is the reason the sequence was abandoned; when Eisner told the production crew about the sequence, none of the principal animators liked the idea at all and Roy Disney vetoed it as it would suggest that the Disney characters had had sex, something he was against. Eisner was apparently upset by this and said that either way, "Pomp and Circumstance" had to be included, despite Roy and other members of the feeling that the piece was unsuitable for the film.

[disneyprincess11]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WHY DIDN'T THEY KEEP THIS VERSION?!?! THAT WOULD BE SOOOOO CUTE! MUST SEE STORYBOARDS!!!!

I hope they eventually do it. I want to see all of their children (well, we know Ariel's kid), esepecially Aurora's amd Tiana's!

@Super Aurora: Don't forget, Tiana's mom. In the beginning of Almost There, she tells her, "I want some grandchildren".

Roy Disney vetoed it as it would suggest that the Disney characters had had sex

Oh wow!!!

[bradhig]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WHY DIDN'T THEY KEEP THIS VERSION?!?! THAT WOULD BE SOOOOO CUTE!

I hope they eventually do it. I want to see all of their children (well, we know Ariel's kid), esepecially Aurora's amd Tiana's!

@Super Aurora: Don't forget, Tiana's mom. In the beginning of Almost There, she tells her, "I want some grandchildren".

Roy Disney vetoed it as it would suggest that the Disney characters had had sex

Oh wow!!! Does this mean Melody was adopted because you know Disney princesses don't sex!!!!

It's natural for them to do that after getting married. There is already some nasty drawings of the princess around just look and they are worried about people reacting to them having sex to have kids

[disneyprincess11]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WHY DIDN'T THEY KEEP THIS VERSION?!?! THAT WOULD BE SOOOOO CUTE!

I hope they eventually do it. I want to see all of their children (well, we know Ariel's kid), esepecially Aurora's amd Tiana's!

@Super Aurora: Don't forget, Tiana's mom. In the beginning of Almost There, she tells her, "I want some grandchildren".
Oh wow!!! Does this mean Melody was adopted because you know Disney princesses don't sex!!!!

It's natural for them to do that after getting married. There is already some nasty drawings of the princess around just look and they are worried about people reacting to them having sex to have kids

hahaha i know, i was just kidding. Eeeek, I think I'll past.

[PrincePhillipFan]

But leave it to the always bombastic Ward Kimball to break the silence. Who reportedly said to the entire room: "That's the stupidest f*cking idea I've ever heard."

I love this quote. Probably now tied with my favorite Walt quote of "Nobody gives a shit about Luxembourg!"

According to the book "DisneyWar", this is the reason the sequence was abandoned; when Eisner told the production crew about the sequence, none of the principal animators liked the idea at all and Roy Disney vetoed it as it would suggest that the Disney characters had had sex, something he was against. Eisner was apparently upset by this and said that either way, "Pomp and Circumstance" had to be included, despite Roy and other members of the feeling that the piece was unsuitable for the film.

Despite my mixed feelings about this idea (it would have been cute, but at the same time be knowingly too commercial), the explanation seems a bit silly. As already stated, Prince Charming's father and King Hubert were really excited and pressing hard for them to have children, so why would it be any different?

Are we to just assume then that apparently the royal family of each respective country died with the Disney Princesses? I guess then in truth each couple didn't like doing it with each other and got nookie on the side, so when they died the kingdom was plunged into a hundred year war of chaos before a people ruling government or parliament was put in place? That's a "happy" ending you don't see too often in many Disney films.

[Sotiris]

I love this quote. Probably now tied with my favorite Walt quote of "Nobody gives a shit about Luxembourg!"

Did Walt Disney really say that? Why and in what context? I've tried googling it but couldn't find anything.