Future Plans For WDW's Fantasyland

[Disney Duster]

I like how in that video the imagineers shout 'Toontown! Toontown! Toontown!", like they are praising it, like they didn't want it to leave - but they're the ones tearing it down! WTF? They didn't want to do it, but they're excited about the new plans?

[DisneyAnimation88]

I like how in that video the imagineers shout 'Toontown! Toontown! Toontown!", like they are praising it, like they didn't want it to leave - but they're the ones tearing it down! WTF? They didn't want to do it, but they're excited about the new plans?

You do understand that they're just doing their jobs don't you? They are simply doing as they've been instructed: demolish Toontown and replace it with a new area. Just because they've redesigned it doesn't mean that they don't have any affection for and all of them chanting Toontown was a nice tribute to the place I think.

[WonderlandFever]

You do understand that they're just doing their jobs don't you? They are simply doing as they've been instructed: demolish Toontown and replace it with a new area. Just because they've redesigned it doesn't mean that they don't have any affection for and all of them chanting Toontown was a nice tribute to the place I think.

Agreed!

[Disney Duster]

Why don't they rise up and try to stop Disney from doing things they think are bad?

[DisneyAnimation88]

From that, why do you think that they think it's bad? Disney do this for all major attractions that close, they hold a closing ceremony for the cast members. Why don't they rise up and rebel? Because they are probably excited about their plans for the expansion. I think you're reading too much into the video and assuming a show of affection and nostalgia is some sort of protest.

[pinkrenata]

Okay, now I'm just picturing a whole bunch of Imagineers waving pitchforks and torches.

Seriously, though. I'm sure this decision took a lot of time. I mean, they can't afford to make expansive changes without discussions and meetings and whatever else people have to do to make a big, important decision like this one. So, people were probably sad, but also ready to move on.

Okay, and here's the last thing I have to say. I love Disney parks just as much as the next person. (I would say I loved them more obsessively about a decade ago -- probably just a sign of age and maturity. ) Here's the thing about it -- they're <i>theme parks</i>. They are designed to appeal to the masses and make money. It is not a sacrilege to change anything. Just wait about 25 years and they'll probably change it again. Maybe you'll finally get exactly what you want then. Maybe you'll grow to love the new Fantasyland and become very upset about the changes. Maybe you won't care anymore. Who knows.

[disneyprincess11]

FROM MOUSEPLANET.COM:

Signs have been added to the fencing at the Toon Town Fair Railroad Station. The train still stops for water here. Clearing continues behind this fence, Photo by J. Jeff Kober.

Any better pictures for the fence, anyone?[/quote]

[Disney Duster]

First, they have so much room, they don't need to keep changing things all the time, they can simply add things for now!

Next, I know some things must change, but what things should change, and what things should stay? They can't replace the castle, or rename the lands, can they?

Toontown was the homes of the characters. It's weird that the new Fantasyland is making homes for other characters, but destroying old, already existing homes, when having all the homes together would make more sense.

And I think if the park ever makes it to a feeling of such greatness and such perfection, they shouldn't change it anymore. I imagine that would be when all the well-known, always-been-popular or iconic movies have gotten their worlds re-created in the park. Cinderella's chateau and Aurora's cottage were almost gonna make that happen...

[pinkrenata]

And I think if the park ever makes it to a feeling of such greatness and such perfection, they shouldn't change it anymore. I imagine that would be when all the well-known, always-been-popular or iconic movies have gotten their words re-created in the park. Cinderella's chateau and Aurora's cottage were almost gonna make that happen...

But what would be perfection for one person wouldn't be for another.

[DisneyAnimation88]

Next, I know some things must change, but what things should change, and what things should stay? They can't replace the castle, or rename the lands, can they?

I think if they changed the name of Cinderella Castle, that would really push you over the edge. If the parks never changed, they would eventually get pretty boring. Why not wait until the expansion is completed before forming an opinion on it based on plans that can always change?

[Disney Duster]

But what would be perfection for one person wouldn't be for another.

Exactly, what I mean is if the park ever got to a sense of perfection that there was something there for everyone that no one wanted to it changed. As perfect as it can get, perfect for the majority.

[WonderlandFever]

Any better pictures for the fence, anyone?

First ones I've seen too, thanks for posting

[disneyprincess11]

Any better pictures for the fence, anyone?

First ones I've seen too, thanks for posting

De neda!

[David S.]

First, they have so much room, they don't need to keep changing things all the time, they can simply add things for now!

Next, I know some things must change, but what things should change, and what things should stay? They can't replace the castle, or rename the lands, can they?

Toontown was the homes of the characters. It's weird that the new Fantasyland is making homes for other characters, but destroying old, already existing homes, when having all the homes together would make more sense.

And I think if the park ever makes it to a feeling of such greatness and such perfection, they shouldn't change it anymore. I imagine that would be when all the well-known, alwasy-been-popular or iconic movies have gotten their words re-created in the park. Cinderella's chateau and Aurora's cottage were almost gonna make that happen...

Thank you!

[DisneyAnimation88]

Exactly, what I mean is if the park ever got to a sense of perfection that there was something there for everyone that no one wanted to it changed. As perfect as it can get, perfect for the majority.

It's a nice sentiment but not one I think will ever become a reality for the reason that pinkrenata said. Besides, didn't Walt say that one of the things that excited him about theme parks was that they would never be completed but could be added to and changed?

[David S.]

Walt used the word "plussed", and in his lifetime, the number of attractions in Disneyland nearly doubled in the 11 years he was alive after the park opened. Even squeezing in the Alice dark ride mostly ON TOP of the Mr. Toad ride in 1958, due to lack of space in Fantasyland, so as to not have to remove a dark ride.

Very few attractions were removed during Walt's lifetime, and those include the early corporate exhibits in Tomorrowland that Walt never liked but had to go with because he ran out of money before he could build the Tomorrowland he wanted. A few Frontierland attractions like the stagecoachs and Conestoga wagons (and later the pack mules) were removed due to logistical problems with the live animals, and the Junior and Midget Autopias were removed because Walt didn't like the idea of rides that were for kids only. And all of these were replaced with something better. He NEVER removed what would be considered a "classic" from the park so the way the "Disney Parks" PR people trot out (and twist) these Walt quotes every time they MURDER someone's beloved favorite attraction is sickening and disgusting!

Especially because he ALSO said, with regards to Walt Disney World:

"Here in Florida, we have something special we never enjoyed at Disneyland - the blessing of size. There's enough land here to hold ALL the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine!"

You'd never know this by watching the moves of the b@$t@rd$ in the "Team Disney Orlando" (aka "TDO") building play out like a train wreck over the years. Consider their Hall Of Shame (to name just a few examples):

* Closing the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride without warning in Fantasyland in the mid 90's, and not replacing it, letting the number of attractions in the MK Fantasyland drop to 8 (compared to Disneyland's 13, despite DL being the smaller park with fewer acres!)

* Shortly afterward, in 1998, closing down the Mr. Toad ride so they could add Pooh ON THE CHEAP by using the same building, instead of doing it THE WALT WAY by building Pooh a NEW show building on a small portion of all the land they are using now for the "new Fantasyland" that the SOB's pretended they didn't have in 1998. So much for the "Blessing of size" and holding ALL the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine!

* Tearing down Horizons for Mission Space at Epcot, even though there are STILL expansion pads in Future World where the Space pavilion could have gone. So much for the "Blessing of size" and holding ALL the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine!

* Closing the Wonders of Life pavilion at Epcot and replacing it with.... NOTHING! So much for the "Blessing of size" and holding ALL the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine!

* Closing the Pocahontas and Her Forest Friends show at Animal Kingdom and replacing it with... NOTHING! So much for the "Blessing of size" and holding ALL the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine!


If people at TDO can be so bold as to assume Walt would approve of changes in the name of "progress" that involve removal of beloved attractions (for new ones or for NOTHING) rather than building from scratch (which is why he bought 27,000 acres for WDW in the first place), than I can clearly call "BAD SHOW" on all of the above examples and hypothesize that these are things Walt would NOT have done or agreed with.

These moves are COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH with Walt's expansion philosophy of PLUSSING, not stagnating with the exact same number of attractions (or in some cases, FEWER attractions!)

TDO acts like a landlocked "mom and pop" traditional amusement park who has to trade in their Scrambler for a Tilt-A-Whirl because they have no new expansion pads left for a new carny spinner ride!

And this latest blundered attempt to "expand" Fantasyland is just the latest pathetic episode of TDO doing things HALF-ASSED and still coming up short and watered-down compared to Disneyland!

Consider that the Mermaid ride is finally replacing the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea ride lost nearly 20 years ago, and that the new Dwarf coaster is coming at the expense of the Snow White dark ride and you get a whooping net gain of no new attractions in Fantasyland! And a gain of one when compared to the recent post-subs MK. Even less than that, when you consider that Toontown and Mickey and Minnie's Houses are being needlessly lost!

When counting walk-thrus, Disneyland SLAUGHTERS the sad, woeful, and pathetic MK even further in Fantasyland/Toontown combined:

DISNEYLAND FANTASYLAND/TOONTOWN ATTRACTION LINEUP

Snow White's Adventures
Pinocchio's Daring Journey
Peter Pan's Flight
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
Alice In Wonderland
Mad Tea Party
Dumbo
Casey Jr. Circus Train
King Arthur Carousel
Sleeping Beauty walkthru
Matterhorn Bobsleds
Storybook Land Canal Boats
It's A Small World
Mickey's House
Minnie's House
Donald's Boat
Goofy's Playhouse
Chip and Dale's Treehouse
Gadget's Go Coaster
Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

TOTAL - 20 attractions

MAGIC KINGDOM FL/TT LINEUP PRE EXPANSION - PRE TOONTOWN CLOSURE

Dumbo
Many Adventures Of Winnie the Pooh
Snow White's Adventures
Peter Pan's Flight
It's A Small World
Mickey's Philharmagic
Cinderella's Golden Carousel
Mad Tea Party
Mickey's House
Minnie's House
Donald's Boat
Barnstormer at Goofy's Wiseacres Farm

TOTAL - 12 attractions

MAGIC KINGDOM FL/FORMER TT POST-EXPANSION LINEUP

Dumbo ("Dueling Dumbos")
Many Adventures Of Winnie the Pooh
Mine Car Coaster
Peter Pan's Flight
It's A Small World
Mickey's Philharmagic
Cinderella's Golden Carousel (never mind that silly "masculine" name change nonsense)
Mad Tea Party
Little Mermaid Ride
Belle's Storytime (although this essentially replaces the older show from Fairytale Gardens)
Casey Jr. Water Play area - counted only because I counted Donald's Boat)
Great Goofini

TOTAL - 12 attractions - no improvement whatsoever over the older total!

As John Lydon once stated, "Ever had the feeling you've been cheated?"

WHAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN IF THE PINHEADS AT TDO BELIEVED IN ADDING WITHOUT SUBTRACTING:

Dumbo
Many Adventures Of Winnie the Pooh
Snow White's Adventures (or a new dark ride to replace it if they didn't want 2 Snow White rides, such as Pinocchio, Alice, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc)
Peter Pan's Flight
It's A Small World
Mickey's Philharmagic
Cinderella's Golden Carousel
Mad Tea Party
Little Mermaid ride
Belle Storytime show
Dwarf's Mine Car coaster OR the Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty walk-through attractions
Mickey's House
Minnie's House
Donald's Boat
Barnstormer at Goofy's Wiseacres Farm/Great Goofini

TOTAL - 15 or 16 - still woefully short of the perfection of Disneyland, considering the Anaheim park has much less acreage than the MK, but would have been a step in the right direction, with the chance of addding more dark rides or Casey Jr/Storybook Land Canal Boats in the future.

With 80 acres, and no "expansion", Disneyland will have a Fantasyland with 13 attractions and a Toontown with 7 more.

With 120 acres (and more room to expand beyond the train tracks), AFTER the "expansion", MK will have a Fantasyland with fewer attractions than Disneyland's and NO Toontown. Unbelievable, sad, and PATHETIC!

Bottom line is, when your "resort" has 27,000 acres to hold "ALL the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine", the assinine TDO practice of Addition Through Subtraction is unacceptable and just plain sucks!

After the clueless idiots at TDO close the Snow White dark ride (for a meet and greet that could have gone ANYWHERE!), I won't be wasting any more time in Orlando for the forseeable future when there is a FAR SUPERIOR Magic Kingdom on the opposite coast I could be enjoying instead. It's further away and will take more of an effort to get there, and logistically I won't be able to stay for as long each year as I have been in Orlando, (or even go every year), but it will be INFINITELY more rewarding for my taste!

Westward Ho!

PS. Any perceived anger in my post is not directed at DisneyAnimation88 or any member of this forum, but rather the pinheads at TDO who bulldozed my beloved Toontown and are soon to do the same to my beloved Snow White dark ride.

[pinkrenata]

Keep in mind that people need to be paid to run said attractions. And to oversee the upkeep. Now, I'm no more a fan of changes than anyone else, but there are obviously reasons, known or unknown, behind the expansion.

Also, Walt was only alive for a very short time in Disneyland's existence. During that time, the park was new and it was the only one of its kind. Of course many things weren't taken away! I hardly find that as a good excuse for Disney never to shut an attraction down.

As for Wonders of Life et al. -- yeah, it's really, <i>really</i> lame what happened to those attractions. Still, I think it's a matter of money over anything else. Like I said before, a number of people are paid to work in each area. If studies are done and if those studies show that attendance is low, it isn't worth it to keep those areas fully staffed.

[disneyprincess11]

NEW CONCEPT ART FRAMES!

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O6vPllWOVOA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So, turns out everything will open next year. YAY!

[Disney Duster]

Thanks for the video, great look at it all!

David S., You spoke so much better than I could have, thank you, so very, very well said. The only thing is a feel bad that you are so angry. you have always been just like an innocent kid here, that I hate to see you have to be like that. But I think it shows that Disney is doing something that finally was so bad it got you this mad. If only me, you, and others could rise up and tell Disney this!

DisneyAnimation, what David S. said is all I need to say to you.

pinkrenata, I feel like talking about Walt's short time alive is missing the point of David's post. It was pointing out that Walt only had rides removed that didn't fit his vision.

However, you had some other very good points. If rides aren't doing well, they may have to be removed (or simply updated, at least try it). I would be fine with polling people at the park why they don't like a ride and what they could do to make them like the same ride, just changed. Also, certain rides that deal with modern things, like modern brands or the future, probably would need to be changed from time to time. But classic rides are called classic for a reason, one being their timeless appeal, as in they will always appeal and need not be taken away.

I don't see how up-keep is a big factor though. Having rides or restaraunts that generate more money (either in people paying or drawing more customers or people satying longer) would also generate the money to hire more people to up-keep them. And every once in a while they may need to re-build parts of a ride or even give it a brand new update, but still, they can keep the same attraction.

[Big Disney Fan]

So, turns out everything will open next year. YAY!

And less than 30 years after the opening of Disneyland's New Fantasyland, no less!