Tangled Discussion Part VI: Let the Drama continue...

[DisneyAnimation88]

You've said it yourself, it's just a complete overreaction and it's unnecessary. Does a film really a need an Oscar to give it credibility? Better songs than that have lost at the Oscars so what is the big deal about this one? It seems year upon year, there is an increasing resentment of everything Pixar does from some Disney fans and it just comes across as pettiness and jealousy. Toy Story 3 and Randy Newman won the Oscar on merit, based purely on the votes of the academy, accept it and move on.

[pinkrenata]

Well, I'm more concerned about his work, hoping he wins at least a few more Oscars before he goes. Like I said, he's not going to be around forever, considering how old he is.

Uh -- if we're playing that card, Randy Newman is quite a bit older than Alan Menken and, until last night, had only won one Academy Award. Menken will get his chance again, don't worry!

[estefan]

Yeah, I don't see Sanders belittling Tangled in any way. He says it should have been nominated, so obviously, he also liked the story and overall film.

And I think you're reaaaaallllllly reaching, DisneyJedi. Pixar has won for the past couple of years, because guess what? Their films frequently are considered by many (including critics, audiences and the film industry) as the best animated films of each year. I'm not an Academy member, just a regular film-goer and I also felt Toy Story 3 was the best animated film of the year. Does that mean John Lasseter has sent me a cheque? No, he hasn't. I also felt Wall-E, Ratatouille, The Incredibles and Finding Nemo were the best animated films of their respective years, too. Heck, I think Monsters Inc should have won over Shrek nine years ago.*

I wonder what the reaction will be next year, when Cars 2 won't win (I think they will think the Oscar to a different animation studio next year). "Oh, no. The Academy hates Pixar now. Boooo, [insert animated film it lost to]."

*I personally preferred The Princess and the Frog over Up, but I have no qualms over Up winning.

[Elladorine]

It's nice to see Chris speak so highly of Despicable Me and Tangled.

Agreed; both of those films had some great things going on.

Makes me wish the internet community would let go of this 'American Dog grudge'. Sanders obviously has moved on and I'm happy he's found his place at Dreamworks. I think they're a perfect match.

I've felt exactly the same way for ages now; some people really do know how to hold grudges but I don't think Mr. Sanders is one of them. It would be unwise in that business anyway.

I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Sanders at a con a few years back and was lucky enough to be able to speak with him one-on-one for a few minutes. This was directly after the whole American Dog controversy hit the fan and I was careful not to bring it up. I could only imagine a lot of his fans were freaking out over it that very weekend without knowing enough of the facts (as seen on his dA page at the time). Anyway, he came off as a really nice, down-to-earth guy that seemed excited about his new opportunities at Dreamworks.

From that, I don't get the impression that he's angry or bitter at all. It's the nature of the film industry that people move from company to company and he's remained successful away from Disney so I don't see why he would hold a grudge. None of us know what was said between Sanders and Lasseter so it's impossible to judge whether there is any personal animosity between the two.

I don't think he's showing any preference towards Despicable Me, I think he's just saying what he feels are the particular strengths of the two films and he doesn't say that he finds Tangled's story weak or inferior.

I don't think he's holding one above the other myself, and I find it really awesome that he's recognizing the strengths of films made from rival companies. He loves great animation and he loves great storytelling and doesn't get blinded by which studio has accomplished what.

[Disney's Divinity]

It's immature to keep saying that Pixar are "bribing" the academy. The simple fact is that they keep winning awards as the academy judges Pixar to be the best in the different categories they are nominated in. You don't like it, fine, but suggesting they offer bribes is ridiculous and childish; a company that produces films of the quality that Pixar does will never have to resort to any kind of underhand tactics.

I dunno, most films/actors get pushed for award treatment. Not sure why Pixar would be the exception.

Not saying they did "bribe," just saying that a lot of underhandedness goes on with awards shows.

And I agree that it's interesting that Newman couldn't win with TP&TF (a Disney film), but he can win with a Pixar film up against a Disney film. I do think there's a pro-Pixar bias, but probably more of an anti-Disney bias, tbh. They haven't exactly been kind to Disney over the years, even going back to Snow White. To me, it's like they view Disney as silly little children's movies, and confine them to the "best song" category. And now with Pixar out there, they have an excuse to exclude them entirely.

Heck, I think Monsters Inc should have won over Shrek nine years ago.*

Agreed. Shrek was crapola, and Monsters, Inc. is arguably Pixar's best. But being anti-Disney's probably a plus to the academy.

[DisneyAnimation88]

I dunno, most films/actors get pushed for award treatment. Not sure why Pixar would be the exception.

I agree but there's a difference between pushing a film and using bribery to win awards. Even if a particular film is pushed and expected to clean house, they don't always win, case in point Avatar last year. Pixar are pushed for awards as they consistently produce films that audiences and critics love, not because they have bribed award commitees. I know that that is not what you were saying but I can't understand why some people are so outraged at what happened at the Oscars.

[Mobje]

Yes....i know this has been posted before, but still.....Pinocchio

[Goliath]

^Well, excuuuuuuse me, Princess! I'm not the one who's treating TPatF's songs like an abusive parent talks down to their kid, telling them that they're worthless and are nothing.

Aaah, finally! The 'drama' that was promised in the thread's title, but which was sorely lacking in the last pages, has now finally returned!

Sad I wasn't there when DisneyJedi went ballistic and when all the Pixar-bashers came out of the woodworks to bash Newman because he easily beat the total failure that was 'I See The Light'. That's a natural Povlovian reaction from people who support the 'Disney'-label above actual substance and quality. Well, now I'm gonna go back and read all those pages and enjoy...

*grabs popcorn and another beer*

[BwayJ]

Yes....i know this has been posted before, but still.....Pinocchio

Not to mention that warthog there at the bottom of the frame.

[Disney's Divinity]

Sad I wasn't there when DisneyJedi went ballistic and when all the Pixar-bashers came out of the woodworks to bash Newman because he easily beat the total failure that was 'I See The Light'. That's a natural Povlovian reaction from people who support the 'Disney'-label above actual substance and quality.

I haven’t read any Pixar-bashers in this thread. Maybe Newman-bashers at the most. Not everyone has to unquestionably accept whatever Pixar serves the academy like you do. And, apparently, Pixar fanboys are the ones who enjoy the brand name over substance considering they believe “We Belong Together” actually deserved to win. Btw, I find it distasteful that you have to imply that everyone that doesn't agree with you are like dogs. But I'm not surprised.

And I don't get why everyone has to dramatize the reactions of those who didn't agree with the award. Besides DisneyJedi, nobody was "overreacting." They (and I) were just expressing understandable anger over someone who didn't deserve to win winning. Even if Menken weren't the one to win, the fact that Newman took the award is a joke.

[Mobje]

Yes....i know this has been posted before, but still.....Pinocchio

Not to mention that warthog there at the bottom of the frame.

Yes indeed!

[Duckburger]

Biased, bribes... really? Maybe Toy Story 3 won because the majority of Oscar voters thought it was the best animated film from this year? Or is that too far-fetched? I get that a lot of people here seem to hate Pixar for no apparant reason, but just because you think TS3 wasn't any good or didn't deserve the Oscar, doesn't mean everybody else should think the same. It has the best reviews. On top of that it was also the most successful film of the year. When looking at it objectively, Toy Story 3 deserved to win.

As for the song, well I don't actually care that much, but I can think of multiple scenarios. 1) the majority actually thought it was better than the rest of the nominated songs (which I agree with), 2) because Newman has been nominated 20 times and won only once they gave him pity votes (doubtful, but Menken has won many times already), or 3) Oscar voters wanted to cause a sh*tstorm on UD.

I'm going with the 3rd option.

[Jay]

Not to mention that warthog there at the bottom of the frame.

Yes indeed!

I love how Disney has past characters make cameos in films. It's little things like that that makes Disney so awesome =D

[Dream Huntress]

I mean, seriously. Do they even WATCH the other nominees for the category?! At least some of us take a look at other animated movies besides Pixar's to see if they're any good!

You're right, that's why Pixar has never lost to another movie, oh wait, yes they have!

Yes....i know this has been posted before, but still.....Pinocchio

He looks cute, so he's like just chilling there?

[Disney's Divinity]

I get that a lot of people here seem to hate Pixar for no apparant reason,

"seem" being the operative word here--depends on what perspective you're looking from. Anyone who loves Pixar is obviously not going to take any criticism or disagreement about anything with the Pixar name on it as anything but unreasonable, biased, anti-Pixar, pro-Disneycorp nonsense. Which is why the atmosphere is always so hostile.

Also, nobody's talking about the Best Animated Feature win here, which TS3 deserved to win, but the song category. But I understand it's easier to typecast people without getting into the specifics.

Btw, I find it funny that people refer to critics, awards shows, and money-made only when it suits their argument. Any other time, awards shows are bunk, money is no indicator of quality, and critics are useless.

[Sotiris]

Sotiris just want to create some conspiracy rumor to protect his beloved Tangled and bad mouth anyone who doesn't give Tangled the highest praise possible.

No, I would never do that. I didn't bad mouth anyone nor I tried to create some "conspiracy" rumour. I was merely trying to untangle the meanings of Sanders' post.

You may think that it was just a coincidence that he praised Despicable Me over Tangled but that's not necessarily true. I think he tried to take the high road and say something good about Tangled but not...too much. Hence his emphasis and praise for Despicable Me. He may not be "bitter" or "angry" per se but when you feel that your former employer screwed you over big time you don't want exactly to exalt their products (and by extension them). It's not so easy to completely let it go which is of course only human and understandable.

[HumorlessPoppycock]

Tangled: Alternate Opening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE2c9GcD ... r_embedded



I don't know if this has already been posted. If so - Oh well (:

[Animalia]

Tangled: Alternate Opening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE2c9GcD ... r_embedded



I don't know if this has already been posted. If so - Oh well (:

That's interesting... But kind of bland in my opinion, the one in the final film is much better. Although it would have been great when Flynn says "This is the story of how I died" they could of had a book with skull and cross-bones on it and Flynn could of said something like "Oh sorry, wrong book!"


P.S I still think the tapestry idea or paintings Rapunzel drew, would have been better.

[Rapunzel]

Tangled: Alternate Opening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE2c9GcD ... r_embedded



I don't know if this has already been posted. If so - Oh well (:

That's interesting... But kind of bland in my opinion, the one in the final film is much better. Although it would have been great when Flynn says "This is the story of how I died" they could of had a book with skull and cross-bones on it and Flynn could of said something like "Oh sorry, wrong book!" P.S I still think the tapestry idea or paintings Rapunzel drew, would have been better.

I agree, it is a little bland. But it is also just a sketch of what they were going to do. If you add in some of the things they kept and just remove some of Flynn's parts, it could have been a good blend.

For example, take out the part about it being a story of how he died...because it isn't. And because that particular line just seems out of place with the story. Also, take out the "see that woman there, she's important" part because there is no reason for us not to expect her to be important. Then add in some pages being turned, have Flynn reading/narrating, and keep a lot of it the same. I think it would have been a great storybook feel without being bland or too basic.

[estefan]

I think he tried to take the high road and say something good about Tangled but not...too much. Hence his emphasis and praise for Despicable Me. He may not be "bitter" or "angry" per se but when you feel that your former employer screwed you over big time you don't want exactly to exalt their products (and by extension them). It's not so easy to completely let it go which is of course only human and understandable.

Like I said before, he said Tangled should have gotten a nomination, so he obviously liked it.

And if he does have some small bitterness over Lasseter, I'm sure he's smart enough to know that if Tangled got the nomination, it would be awarded to Nathan Greno and Byron Howard, who I'm sure he's good friends with (since they both worked together at Disney). Howard even worked as a character designer on Lilo & Stitch.