Disturbing story: gays & the military

[Maerj]

I heard this and I think this is really disturbing and I feel I should pass this on.

Last week I was talking to a guy I work with. He's an ex-military guy and so I thought that I'd ask him about how he felt about the repeal of 'don't ask-don't tell' and gays being openly accepted into the military.

He told me a story about an NFL player who quit football and decided to join the military to help out in the war. I don't recall his name, I don't follow sports at all. But anyway, he said this guy was seen as arrogant and still an NFL player, like he expected special treatment or something. Thats the way he was percieved anyway. He returned home dead, a victim of friendly fire.

So, what did this have to do with what I asked? He said that basically if they don't like you, you'll be the victim of friendly fire and that's what will probably happen to gay soldiers.

Whoa, that is scary. I was shocked. Then I thought about all the protests that have been in the news for the last couple of years at funerals for gay soldiers. That has happened quite a few times. It sort of confirms what this guy was saying.

Even with this Bradley Manning and the Wikileaks thing. If he did what they claim he did, why would he go around bragging about it? Did he really do it or was he singled out because he was gay? I don't know. But he has been in solitary confinement since this all went down, which isn't right. Even if guilty, he deserves a fair trial, not months of imprisonment.

I don't know if I have a point with all of this. Its midnight on Saturday night. I'm tired and I just felt like I needed to get this out somewhere. Its just, if this is true, it's really not right and the individuals responsible should be brought to justice.

Your thoughts?

[jpanimation]

They won't dislike you if you're gay. They'll dislike you if you're a douche or your attitude is harmful to the unit. On the field, they're all soldiers. You can't let homophobia, racism or sexism get in the way, as it can can cost you your life. Everyone would be smart to look at each other as teammates (fellow soldiers) and judge them only by the content of their character (well, and skill as a soldier). That is a winning strategy all on it's own.

Also, it's not "friendly fire" if it's intentional, it's murder. I don't know whether or not this is actually happening but I can't imagine they'd kill someone they dislike. By doing something like that, you'd destroy trust, and if you don't have trust, you don't have a functioning team/unit.

[Super Aurora]

but I can't imagine they'd kill someone they dislike. By doing something like that, you'd destroy trust, and if you don't have trust, you don't have a functioning team/unit.

Unfortunately stuff like that DO actually happen. Vietnam had loads of them for example. War/military is not as unified and simple as you may or want to think.

[The_Iceflash]

Also, it's not "friendly fire" if it's intentional, it's murder.

This is true.

Seeing as this guy was a celebrity, if it wasn't friendly fire and thus intentional, it would have come out.

[Lazario]

but I can't imagine they'd kill someone they dislike. By doing something like that, you'd destroy trust, and if you don't have trust, you don't have a functioning team/unit.

Unfortunately stuff like that DO actually happen. Vietnam had loads of them for example. War/military is not as unified and simple as you may or want to think.

I wanted to say that same thing but I couldn't.

I'll just reply with a highly resonant, serious: I AGREE!

[Super Aurora]

Unfortunately stuff like that DO actually happen. Vietnam had loads of them for example. War/military is not as unified and simple as you may or want to think.

I wanted to say that same thing but I couldn't.

I'll just reply with a highly resonant, serious: I AGREE!

Off topic but I was lurking your forum, and I lol'd at your anti-Goliath thread in the Disney section. That and the dude in forum image is creepy and make me want to punch it.

[pinkrenata]

Also, it's not "friendly fire" if it's intentional, it's murder.

This is true.

Seeing as this guy was a celebrity, if it wasn't friendly fire and thus intentional, it would have come out.

Him being a celebrity should have nothing to do with whether or not the truth comes out.

I have a hard time believing that something like this could really happen. I mean, intolerance runs rampant wherever you are. Still, I would think the family of the victim or anyone else suspecting something wrong would have stepped forward.

But then that's just me being sheltered and thinking that everyone cares about one another...

[Super Aurora]

This is true.

Seeing as this guy was a celebrity, if it wasn't friendly fire and thus intentional, it would have come out.

Him being a celebrity should have nothing to do with whether or not the truth comes out.

I have a hard time believing that something like this could really happen. I mean, intolerance runs rampant wherever you are. Still, I would think the family of the victim or anyone else suspecting something wrong would have stepped forward.

Even if the family step up there's no way of knowing or proof who did it or if someone intentionally killed someone.The guy could of killed the celebrity in the mist of friendly fire to create the illusion he did die by accident or by an enemy. It happen before and there are ways people can do that.

I know many people who fought in war or work in the military, and numerous accounts like these happen I'm told.

[The_Iceflash]

This is true.

Seeing as this guy was a celebrity, if it wasn't friendly fire and thus intentional, it would have come out.

Him being a celebrity should have nothing to do with whether or not the truth comes out.

Of course. I agree with that. I just meant that when the situation is a higher profile one like that, more eyes are on case and there's a better chance of them making sure all i's are dotted and all t's are crossed is all. After all it is the high profile cases that are heard of more so they want to make sure they do everything by the book. It's not right that his celebrity status would give special treatment but unfortunately that's what happens.

[jpanimation]

Unfortunately stuff like that DO actually happen. Vietnam had loads of them for example. War/military is not as unified and simple as you may or want to think.

I wouldn't ever call war simple. It has best been described as controlled chaos (like in Black Hawk Down, where no one knows what the hell is happening and everyone has to adapt to survive). I was simply stating what the ideal condition would be if we really wanted success. We know what kind of travesties have happened and continue to happen when we loose control.

[Goliath]

I don't know that Bradley Manning is homosexual, but I don't think that's the reason why he's being kept in solitary confinement. He's being kept there because he's supposedly gave a lot of secret US documents to Wikileaks. Now, I don't agree at all with his treatment. I understand he broke the law (even though I see him and the people behind Wikileaks as heroes), but his treatment is disproportional to say the least. However, I don't think it has anything to do with his sexual preference.

I've heard about gays in connection to bullying in the military before. Maybe some über-macho types wouldn't feel comfortable backing a gay soldier in combat? I don't know if they would go as far as to kill him off with 'friendly fire', but if you look what they're doing to Afghan and Iraqi civilians, you can't really rule anything out. Besides, the US is still a very homophobic county. Even the president has said he doesn't want to back gay marriage, for example. The fact that DADT got repealed was an act of Congress; the president had little to do with it. Unlike Harry Truman, who single-handedly ordered the military to be 'integrated' (allowing African-Americans to serve alongside white Americans).

Like with the integration of black soldiers, integrating openly gay soldiers will take some time. Not that I understand why anybody would want to serve in the military, by the way...

About 'friendly fire' and the DoD covering up the true circumstances, check out the Pat Tilmann affair:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillma ... .27s_death

Off topic but I was lurking your forum, and I lol'd at your anti-Goliath thread in the Disney section. That and the dude in forum image is creepy and make me want to punch it.

Wait... what? Lazario has his own forum? With a special thead dedicated entirely to ME?

[Super Aurora]

Wait... what? Lazario has his own forum? With a special thead dedicated entirely to ME?

yeah, here: http://moviesfromhell.proboards.com/ind ... thread=442

[Goliath]

yeah, here: http://moviesfromhell.proboards.com/ind ... thread=442

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

He's saving every single post and chat comment I ever made? Is that pathetic or WHAT?

What is he trying to 'prove'? What does he want to say with those comments of mine he posted? They don't mean anything. It's not even "anti-Goliath", since it has no substance. Heck, if it were "anti-Goliath", I could at least have an opinion on it, but this is just... er... repeating my posts of UD.

Oh, and zero replies! He's talking to himself!

[Super Aurora]

yeah, here: http://moviesfromhell.proboards.com/ind ... thread=442

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

He's saving every single post and chat comment I ever made? Is that pathetic or WHAT?

What is he trying to 'prove'? What does he want to say with those comments of mine he posted? They don't mean anything. It's not even "anti-Goliath", since it has no substance. Heck, if it were "anti-Goliath", I could at least have an opinion on it, but this is just... er... repeating my posts of UD.

Oh, and zero replies! He's talking to himself!

I think he's gay for you. This is first time I've seen something like this. Talk about obsessive.

[Disney Duster]

I'm hoping that was in jest.

But if it wasn't, just to defend Lazario, I don't think that part of the forum was meant to be seen by Goliath, I think it is a place for Lazario to get out his anger over Goliath in perhaps a better way than right in Goliath's face to get him angry.

[Lazario]

Wait... what? Lazario has his own forum?

It's ProBoards. Completely free. Takes 2 seconds to set one up- anyone can make one. For anything. You could probably make 4 or something and never have to give them a new E-Mail. I don't have one, I have maybe 7 (hell, I made one up when I was suspended just as a joke against claims that I'm too negative on the forums : http://lovelyhappynice.proboards.com/in ... y&thread=2 ). I used them as blogs until they came up with Blogs. And you run the risk with a blog that no one will read it. It's your way to express yourself. I tried to make websites but the only free ones I found were terrible, hard to manage, and drove me nuts (Geocities, Homestead? I think that's the other one).

Here's a post from one of my boards that goes all the way back to 2004 ("Dead Dude in the House" is a variation on my MySpace page name "Dead Dude Hates the Living"):



I made that board because I had a good friend from high school who had a board on ProBoards and he killed his. I think it's because he's an animator who draws anime / Asian styled comics and stories (which is really weird - I met him in maybe 1999 and this way before I joined UD) (obviously). All my boards start out with nobody reading them - although all my 2004, 2005 forums had members other than myself. But I think they're added to a listing thing and people find forums randomly. So, people do read what you write when you make one of these. Not to mention I've left the link for my Moves from Hell board in the "Your Site" section on at least a couple other message boards. And I have a regular reader who you'll see if you click the "Newest Topics" tab. The board's kinda gone a bit to pot because I've been doing all my writing at our friend's board.

Yes, kids, this couldn't be more off-topic if I tried. But... They started it!!

I think he's gay for you.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/z142HK8V-hE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<img src="http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/images/smi ... iggrin.gif" width="50" height="50" border="0">

Seriously, though- just because I take pictures of his words and connect a couple posts together with arrows doesn't mean I'm obsessive. What a tangled web I weave? Technological child's-play. If I can do it, anyone can.

[ajmrowland]

I'm hoping that was in jest.

But if it wasn't, just to defend Lazario, I don't think that part of the forum was meant to be seen by Goliath, I think it is a place for Lazario to get out his anger over Goliath in perhaps a better way than right in Goliath's face to get him angry.

Normally, a Word document would suffice. On the internet, especially with SA's link, we can all see it, and it's creepy even if his reasons are to avoid conflict.

[Wonderlicious]

I'm hoping that was in jest.

But if it wasn't, just to defend Lazario, I don't think that part of the forum was meant to be seen by Goliath, I think it is a place for Lazario to get out his anger over Goliath in perhaps a better way than right in Goliath's face to get him angry.

Normally, a Word document would suffice. On the internet, especially with SA's link, we can all see it, and it's creepy even if his reasons are to avoid conflict.

I don't wanna get into the drama, but yeah...it seems a bit unsettling to post something like that in any public space and to gloat about it. Regardless of how anybody feels, it's quite sadistic, and I don't particularly like it.

[Goliath]

'Gays in the military dying of friendly fire' --> 'Lazario's forum'

That's UD for ya!