TSA security discussion and news stories

[ajmrowland]

Well, now that swayed me to turn against the TSA. So horrible.

Well, maybe you think that's nothing since it didn't happen to you. I can't wait until you have to fly, maybe you'll be the one getting felt up or assaulted and then you can see how funny it is.

When did I ever say it was funny? I was just considering all the possibilities. the masses arent always right.

I thought you started this thread for discussing the TSA. This seemed to be the intention but it looks like you want to discuss it but cut down anyone who opposes the TSA and their unconstitutional policies. But anything against your precious TSA and you seem to want to ridicule it.

I refer to my above statement. My personal philosophy is to never choose a side until you have all the facts. Unfortunately, in my experience, most people dont even attempt to get any facts before choosing a side on any issue, and a lot of things-politics not being the least of them-end up being overdramatized because of it. I havent flown since summer, so I dont have the personal experience required to really sympathize with the victims here, and that's the point of view I give. NEVER did I ever think of this topic as a joke. I am very serious about everything I posted here. I'm against the TSA because of principals, and the articles admittedly are making me more biased in that regard, but I'm reserving final judgement until I experience it myself.

If you still think I'm clowning around about this, fine. but you're paying for the makeup, baggy polka-dotted pants, AND the red nose.

[Maerj]

You'd have to attend Clown College and neither of us probably have the money for that, so that option would def be out.

Based on your response it did seem like you weren't taking this seriously, it came off as glib and sarcastic. So I was like, why does this guy bring this topic up if this is how he feels? Hopefully we are both on the same page now.

Anyway, if you stop and think abuot the 9/11 thing, why did it happen? I'm not talking about the terrorist's reason of why but why wasn't it stopped? There are too many people who do what they're told. Many of us just want to sit there and be quiet, follow the rules, 'let's not get out of our seats, maybe they'll let us go,' or their just plain scared.

These guys had box cutters. Rasor blades. You mean with a couple of hundred people in a plane there wasn't at least a dozen big guys who could have overpowered them? (The plane over Pennsylvania being the obvious exception.) I'm sure there were but people nowadays are afraid to speak up and do something. That is something that is really bothering me with this TSA business.

They are training people to be afraid. To stand there and pray that they aren't the ones pulled out of line and given a hard time. They want everyone to shut up and do what they are told, no matter how illegal, degrading and unconstitutional it is. Most people are unfortunately complying. That's the most un-American thing I can think of.

"Well, it makes me feel safer," that is the staement that they throw in every article about this subject in mainstream media. There's always some moron in line who says that so they can quote it. Well seeing regular people being drug out of an airport doesn't make me feel any safer, it just shows that the authorites are overstepping their bounds and are out of control.

Instead, people need to think for themselves more and most certainly question the TSA's authority. Afterall, the TSA has not stopped a single terrorist. The underwear bomber was spotted by regular people. Independent, informed, strong, thinking people are the best defense any crazed terrorist. Of course this is just my opinion but we are here to discuss this, so there it is. I'd like to see what everyone else is thinking as well.

[Goliath]

@ Maerj:

[Elladorine]

"Well, it makes me feel safer," that is the staement that they throw in every article about this subject in mainstream media. There's always some moron in line who says that so they can quote it. Well seeing regular people being drug out of an airport doesn't make me feel any safer, it just shows that the authorites are overstepping their bounds and are out of control.

To me, knowing that people are saying "it makes me feel safer" is one of the scariest parts of all this. Would they be saying the same thing had they been the ones being dragged out of the airport or are they just relieved they weren't the ones targeted? TSA has definitely gone too far with methods that aren't even reliable.

I haven't flown since early 2007. Based on all I've been reading, I'm in no hurry to get back to "the friendly skies." If I find myself in need to travel across the country, I'll be driving.

[Goliath]

To me, knowing that people are saying "it makes me feel safer" is one of the scariest parts of all this. Would they be saying the same thing had they been the ones being dragged out of the airport or are they just relieved they weren't the ones targeted?

Such ridiculous policies are always implemented because the authorities can always count on people saying that they "don't mind" or that they "have nothing to hide". That's because, to answer your question (though I suspect it was rhetorical), people do think it's always somebody else who will be targeted. That's why there are still so many people who support the Patriot Act (a fine example of Newspeak which would make Orwell roll in his grave), wiretapping of phones, reading of e-mails --or even 'extra-ordinary rendition' and torture. Because people always think they are not going to be targeted, because they are 'good' and behave 'right'. Of course, people who have done nothing wrong are targeted all the time. It's in the nature of authorities that aquire more and more power. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[Maerj]

Just to add to what Goliath said, the reason I mention the quote from people in line about feeling safer is that in every article I read about someone being abused by TSA procedure, they always have that same quote from *someone*. Its like mainstream media want to emphasise that what is happening is for your own good and that you'll feel safer. I don't need them to trick me into how I should feel about the TSA.

I just read a good article:

http://tsatyranny.com/2010/12/true-loya ... a-treason/

And I love this quote, which is someone's signature in the feedback section:

We must surely all hang together for if we do not we shall definitely all hang separately,
Ben Franklin

[Goliath]

Just to add to what Goliath said, the reason I mention the quote from people in line about feeling safer is that in every article I read about someone being abused by TSA procedure, they always have that same quote from *someone*. Its like mainstream media want to emphasise that what is happening is for your own good and that you'll feel safer.

Of course that's what they want. It's not the 1950's anymore, when we had a rich variety of independent news organizations. All media are now concentrated in the hand of four or five (foreign) multinational corporations.




All of them are not only active in media, but in lots of other businesses as well, like the 'security business', weapon manifacturing, military equipment etc. First they get us scared, then they sell us stuff to feel less scared. All corporate media are in on this, although some more than others --and some more enthusiastic and energetic, like those which employ fearmongers like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity (two people who got nominated on UD in the category 'Best News Program' --which is beyond satire, if you ask me).

[Maerj]

I'm not doubting you at all but where did you get the info on the corporations? Just curious.

I think I scared someone at work yesterday. We were discussing an article I read online, the one where the guy passed through security without doing the scanner or pat down, I think I posted a link here for it.

Anyway, some other guy comes up and starts saying "Flying is a privlage not a right" and other stupid things like that and I just started flipping out. My buddies said "Dude your face is all red, I never saw you angry like that!" I just hate things like that! I found out that the head of the TSA, Mr. Pisotle made that statement. I stumbled upon a blog after that which brought up 2 Supreme Court cases which state that it is unconstitutional to restrict travel within the US by US Citizens. I let others read it and they replied "So they are breaking the law and legally can't keep you from getting on board the plane." Yeppers.

I need to apologize to the guy or something I think, he was avoiding me today. I just can't understand why people are so eager to give up the rights like this? I don't get it. Maybe I need to calm down, I don't know.

[Goliath]

I'm not doubting you at all but where did you get the info on the corporations? Just curious.

That particular graph is a simplified (for reasons of clarity) depiction of the problem which I found on Democratic Underground. The facts behind the graph came be found here:

http://www.corporations.org/media/

Also check out: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... each2.html

I just can't understand why people are so eager to give up the rights like this? I don't get it. Maybe I need to calm down, I don't know.

Because they're being conditioned to do that by the corporate media. This is not restricted to the US only, though. It happens everywhere, and "I have nothing to hide" has become a standard answer in The Netherlands as well, whenever our government comes up with new measures to have more surveillance over its citizens at the cost of our privacy --and they are working *very* hard at it since 9/11. Already, Dutch police taps more phones and reads more e-mails than the US authorities; and now, they want to set up a national database with every citizen's fingerprints --you have to give yours if you want to renew your passport. Several lawsuits are already going on against this.

[ajmrowland]

You'd have to attend Clown College and neither of us probably have the money for that, so that option would def be out.

Based on your response it did seem like you weren't taking this seriously, it came off as glib and sarcastic. So I was like, why does this guy bring this topic up if this is how he feels? Hopefully we are both on the same page now.

Anyway, if you stop and think abuot the 9/11 thing, why did it happen? I'm not talking about the terrorist's reason of why but why wasn't it stopped? There are too many people who do what they're told. Many of us just want to sit there and be quiet, follow the rules, 'let's not get out of our seats, maybe they'll let us go,' or their just plain scared.

These guys had box cutters. Rasor blades. You mean with a couple of hundred people in a plane there wasn't at least a dozen big guys who could have overpowered them? (The plane over Pennsylvania being the obvious exception.) I'm sure there were but people nowadays are afraid to speak up and do something. That is something that is really bothering me with this TSA business.

They are training people to be afraid. To stand there and pray that they aren't the ones pulled out of line and given a hard time. They want everyone to shut up and do what they are told, no matter how illegal, degrading and unconstitutional it is. Most people are unfortunately complying. That's the most un-American thing I can think of.

"Well, it makes me feel safer," that is the staement that they throw in every article about this subject in mainstream media. There's always some moron in line who says that so they can quote it. Well seeing regular people being drug out of an airport doesn't make me feel any safer, it just shows that the authorites are overstepping their bounds and are out of control.

Instead, people need to think for themselves more and most certainly question the TSA's authority. Afterall, the TSA has not stopped a single terrorist. The underwear bomber was spotted by regular people. Independent, informed, strong, thinking people are the best defense any crazed terrorist. Of course this is just my opinion but we are here to discuss this, so there it is. I'd like to see what everyone else is thinking as well.

this deserves a


I think the problem is that people are afraid. actually, that should be obvious, with things as they are now. no one wants to take risks and lose any luxuries they like having. Even multibillion dollar movie studios are behaving that way

[Maerj]

Just read this at yahoo news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110108/ap_ ... d_packages

Someone sent Janet Napolatano an explosive package. It just sort of flashed and it happened at a DC Post Office, they say no one opened it, it just sort of happened.

I don't know but I suspect that this may have actually been sent in by someone within the government. It looks like an attempt to get people to stop complaining about the government and the TSA. There's a line there that say that police are searching for someone who is angry or against the government. Check it out and post what you think about this.

[Disneyphile]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15 ... t-24890589

Anyone with a moral conscience will probably find the video to be disturbing.

[Maerj]

Check out :

http://www.wewontfly.com

http://www.tsatyranny.com

There has been many more things that the TSA has done and people are finally getting sick of it. check out those sites and join the we wont fly twitter feed. There is a petition that you can sign as well:

http://wewontfly.com/no-more-patdowns-kids

There may be something else in the near future.

[Khonnor]

Are you aware of how many sick people use their children to smuggle drugs or other stuff into another country? Ofcourse they are going to randomly check children nowadays.

It's not like that lady-officer was being hard-handed or rude with the little girl. It's the world we live in people...

[Lazario]

If the concern here is really drugs, I have a problem with the fact that just recently (years) security agents are being given orders to become more physically invasive to the people they're checking. What the hell were they doing before this overwhelming public outcry has started- letting offenders slip by? Not being aggressive enough with everyone? Let's forget the officers / agents entirely now. I'm never one to advise someone to get another job, but in cases like this- this is clearly violating a person's body. So, I have nothing to say about the agents. But to them- get another job. What they're being told to do, no matter who it's on, is flatout wrong. And no drug search is going to justify it. No moral "some people ruin it for the rest of us" is going to validate molesting another person. I'm all for searching a person's home and belongings, but there has got to be one thing that can't be taken away from someone without DAMN good reason. And this - looking for drugs because anyone on the plane could have them - is not a good reason.

[David S.]

Are you aware of how many sick people use their children to smuggle drugs or other stuff into another country? Ofcourse they are going to randomly check children nowadays.

It's not like that lady-officer was being hard-handed or rude with the little girl. It's the world we live in people...

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

Lucky for me, this doesn't affect me personally, as I have a John Madden-esque fear of flying and haven't done so since WAY before 9/11. Seeing the country by car is more scenic and fun anyway, and you can set your own schedule, and not have to worry about getting around once you get where you are going.

But if I DID like to fly, I wouldn't do it now because of the TSA and their privacy-abusing policies. I agree with Maerj and Lazario.

[Maerj]

Are you aware of how many sick people use their children to smuggle drugs or other stuff into another country? Ofcourse they are going to randomly check children nowadays.

It's not like that lady-officer was being hard-handed or rude with the little girl. It's the world we live in people...

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

Lucky for me, this doesn't affect me personally, as I have a John Madden-esque fear of flying and haven't done so since WAY before 9/11. Seeing the country by car is more scenic and fun anyway, and you can set your own schedule, and not have to worry about getting around once you get where you are going.

But if I DID like to fly, I wouldn't do it now because of the TSA and their privacy-abusing policies. I agree with Maerj and Lazario.

Thank you! It looks like they are already considering legislation to stop this. Now we need them to stop doing it to adults.

[Goliath]

If they don't want drugs smuggled into the country, they should stop the counter-productive 'drug wars' in Central- and Latin-America, which only drive up prices and make it much more lucrative for criminals to smuggle it into the US.

So, people are finally objecting? But only when a child is groped? It's okay to be groped if you're an adult? And we're still going along with this stupid rule that we can't bring drinks or lotions or something like that on board, because it could explode? Of course, matches and cigarette lightners are still allowed (all those things with which you could actually, you know, *lit* a bomb or an explosive), because we don't want to anger the cigarette companies, now would we? And if I want to travel to the US, I have to pay $30 extra to be *allowed* (yes, you read that right) to fill in a form with all my personal information, including whether or not I am or ever have been a member of a terrorist organization! I kid you not, this is what you have to fill in before you can fly to the US!

But we all go along, don't we? If, in the near future, the authorities say we'll have to fly with our hands and legs tied together for safety reasons, we'll do it. We'll do it all! And anybody who questions the logic and effectiveness obviously must have something to hide!

[...] I'm all for searching a person's home and belongings, but there has got to be one thing that can't be taken away from someone without DAMN good reason. And this - looking for drugs because anyone on the plane could have them - is not a good reason.

You're too late. Your house can be searched by the FBI without them notifying you, or ever letting you know they went there. That's Bush's 'Patriot' Act at work, which is still in place because Democrats haven't overturned it. You, an American citizen, can also be picked up by the intelligence agencies and be incarcerated without any form of a trial. Habeas Corpus (the right to defend yourself against all accusations made against you) was removed by the Bush-administration and has not been re-instated by Obama. The president of the US now even holds the (blatantly unconsitutional) powers to appoint anyone an 'enemy combatant' and order him/her 'taken out'. Another violation of the Constitution brought to you by Bush/Cheney and the bringer of 'change you can believe in' Obama. They don't need any reason anymore. "I feel like it" is now reason enough.

I *wish* these were all just wild conspiracy theories from tinfoil-hatters or taken from Glenn Beck's schoolboard. Sadly, they are reality. Of course, you'll never hear the media about this and you'll never hear public outcry. They're too busy with Charlie Sheen or Donald Trump.

[Maerj]

Well, it looks like the PA State Legislature wants to put an end to this TSA nonsense:

http://pennsylvania.tenthamendmentcente ... -movement/


Yeah!

[Maerj]

Just to make sure everyone knows what is happening here, this news story from Florida:

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_c_p ... il-station

shows that the TSA is now expanding their reach. Boats, trains, nothing is safe from them now.