Tangled Discussion - Part V

[Victurtle]

So many spoilers :O

Good thing I caved in and watch the cam rip.... Doesn't come out here til Jan 6

[Sotiris]

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[Gandalf]

One small qualm: you left out the fast incantation when Rapunzel is trying to ask Gothel about the lights as well as the very ending incantation when Rapunzel sings over the dying Flynn.

Oooh you're right! i'll go do those now and edit the video into this post when i'm sleepy i can be forgetful

Thar we be:
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Thanks! This is wonderful.

[TangledInDreams]

Hey guys, those have just been posted on IT'S ART.

Claims to be never-before-seen drawings of Tangled

Hope you like them!

http://www.itsartmag.com/features/tangl ... quicknews4

P.S. Mobje if you're reading the topic would you please be so kind as to upload the X-mas promos you posted in psd please? They are obviously layered and this will help us make widescreen wallpapers for xmas Pleeeeeeease )

[Siren]

I finally saw it. I am probably in the minority but I didn't like it as much as everyone else seems to. And its not to say I felt it was poorly made or that I didn't understand it, I just didn't care for the characters much. The story was good though. Gothel made me think she was the lovechild of Ursula and Frollo...cruel, cunning, and greedy. Animation was ok, sure it was pretty at times, but I'm glad I didn't waste the cash on 3D.

Onto the spoilers!

I read some spoiler comments earlier about Rapunzel pushing Gothel and how it didn't sit right with some. Why not? She was hitting Flynn with a frying pan every other minute. Rapunzel struck me as a naive, but tough girl who isn't afraid to defend herself, even physically. She wasn't violent, just very defensive.

I still don't understand why Gothel kept her name Rapunzel or why she kept her birthday the same. That was just a huge plot hole. But then of course the story wouldn't end the way it did.

Gothel's second time singing Mother Knows Best was very dark and sinister. I did like that.

I did like the fact they showed Rapunzel kinda unhinged. Princess Fiona in Shrek, was also locked in a tower (though she had no psuedo-mother to speak to), but she never showed the same kinda psychosis from that experience. Least not until the Broadway show. Disney did better showing it in Rapunzel. Everything is new and wonderful and scary all at the same time.

I also liked the fact they showed her parents before she ever met them. How sad they were. That was a beautiful scene. And one of the saddest. The sense of loss and hopelessness for a moment before they muster the courage to go outside to send out the first lantern, especially seeing that in the King.

Gothel was a good villain, but no where near the best. But her control over Rapunzel reminded me of Frollo and Quasi's relationship. Frollo always reminded Quasi that he was ugly. Where as Gothel compliments herself and never Rapunzel. Though one big thing missing from Gothel's character....besides Rapunzel's hair, what was her motivations for being immortal? What did she do away from the tower that made living so long, important to her. Usually immortal characters, be them good or bad, have a purpose, but Gothel doesn't show what motivates her. But then again that would take the story away from Rapunzel too much. Though a small mention would have been nice. Like how Ursula mentioned she was once ruler of Atlantica and wanted it back. We didn't need a 20 minute flashback, we knew her motivation from one simple sentence. But perhaps I am looking too far into this and maybe being young and beautiful is the only thing she wanted. I just wonder what she was doing away from the tower. Was she a black widow? Marrying and killing men? Was she a prostitute? Did she just walk around town flaunting herself? Least the Evil Queen had a mirror to motivate her to stay fairest in the land

[Disney's Divinity]

I still don't understand why Gothel kept her name Rapunzel or why she kept her birthday the same. That was just a huge plot hole. But then of course the story wouldn't end the way it did.

One reviewer on RT also mentioned that. They also wondered why Gothel would put Rapunzel in a tower only a little ways away from the castle.

Gothel was a good villain, but no where near the best. But her control over Rapunzel reminded me of Frollo and Quasi's relationship. Frollo always reminded Quasi that he was ugly. Where as Gothel compliments herself and never Rapunzel.

I agree that there's definitely a similar dynamic there as Frollo and Quasi. The only problem I have with Gothel as a character is that she's actually lived in the tower with Rapunzel for years (you see her sleeping in her bed, when childRapunzel sneaks to the window to see the lights), and yet she seems to honestly not care about Rapunzel one way or another. I think the only moment they come close to creating any depth is when she agrees to go get the meal-stuff (can't remember what it was) that would take a three-day's journey. But even then the movie leads you to believe that she's only doing this to keep Rapunzel in the tower, and not out of any sort of affection.

And I know that both Frollo and the Stepmother were also uncaring towards their "children," but Frollo didn't actually live with Quasimodo all those years (Quasi speaks to the gargoyles because he's almost always alone). Tremaine also keeps no pretense that she might like Cinderella, and just sets her to housework all the time. For the Gothel-Rapunzel thing to work, there needed to be some genuine affection on Gothel's side. I'm not saying she shouldn't have used Rapunzel, like a villain would, but that it would've been nice if she accidentally grew some emotions for her "daughter" over the 16-18 year period they lived together.

On another head, I've been listening to the songs, and they've grown on me. I still think the soundtrack is probably Menken's weakest so far (even HOTR's music is more memorable for me), but it's at least momentarily pleasing. There are bits and pieces of "Mother Knows Best" that are brilliant (Donna Murphy is great in the "stop, no more, you'll just upset me!!!" bit, and the "chubby" part near the end is hilarious--ultimately the song is a big stereotype of every annoying, jugdmental, controlling, pageant mother you've ever met, and I enjoy it for that), but there are too many weak lyrics for me to love it as some of the best songs (the whole "quicksand, giant bugs, the Plague, etc." montage is one example; "go get trampled by a rhino" is the worst). The reprise of "MKB" is the same way--I hate that they have a line, "Go ahead and show him this!" Isn't there anyway they could've written the song for it to be enjoyed outside the film?

There's also a definite cleverness and cuteness to "When Will My Life Begin" ("and it's, like, 7:15" and "brush-a, brush-a, brush my hair"). I also love the ending where the background noise ends and it's really just her voice--it's more emotional. I think it's only hurt by Mandy Moore as the singer. She's mostly decent, and I'm only grateful they didn't cast Demi Levato or something, but people have talked about the "breathiness" before, and it bothers me, too. She's probably best in "I See The Light." That's definitely the winner of the film, and while it'll never be as good as "B&tB" or "A Whole New World," it's a lovely song. I would love to hear it sung by different, more talented people, tbh, to hear how good it can be (sort of like with "If I Never Knew You" from Pocahontas, which wasn't as good with Mel Gibson). I also really enjoy Grace Potter's "Something That I Want." Even though I always like end title pop versions of a film's main song, this and Ne-yo's "Never Knew I Needed" on the end of TP&TF have actually been pretty nice choices.

I kind of wish we could hear that song talked about earlier in production, "You Are My Forever," where it would be used as both a song between Gothel and Rapunzel, and Rapunzel and Flynn. Too bad that concept didn't make it into the final thing. I'm sure it'll be released in the future though.

[RIPJoeRanft]

Saw it early this morning, and really enjoyed it. Nobody can do these types of movies quite like Disney Animation can. Although I still think the soundtrack is pretty average for Menken, the songs did grow on me and were each well-placed in the film (which is why I should avoid listening to soundtracks before watching the actual film). The characters were timeless and pure Disney, and the visuals (I saw in 3D) were just outstanding and captivating.

At the heart of the film's sucess, I think much like last year's The Princess and the Frog (and even 2008's Bolt), the stories are interesting, engaging, and carefully crafted. Which is something I've been critical about in the past with some Disney Animation works. These recent films hook viewers quickly and take them for a wild ride, introducing new, fun characters and situations while skillfully coloring in the story points. I feel like the story and the way the meat of the film (beginning-middle-climax) is portrayed on screen is a crucial factor, particularly in fairy tale films where we ALL know the eventual outcome (happily ever after, etc.)

[Fairytales]

Whydoes it matter to Gothel that the Rapunzel sings the healing song fast?
How faster Rapunzel sings, how faster she'll get young. And that's all she cares about... so, why?

[Escapay]

Just got back from the matinee. Amazing movie. Will post thoughts later. Have to process. And watch my Fantasia Blu-Ray. But still need to process. Maybe will watch again this weekend.

albert

[PatrickvD]

Whydoes it matter to Gothel that the Rapunzel sings the healing song fast?
How faster Rapunzel sings, how faster she'll get young. And that's all she cares about... so, why?

I think she was more afraid Rapunzel was phoning it in so it wouldn't work properly.

[PheR]

is it me or Rapunzel's head looks HUGE once her hair gets cut? specially looking at it next to Flynn's, it's so hilariously distractive it killed the emotional moment for me

[Fairytales]

Whydoes it matter to Gothel that the Rapunzel sings the healing song fast?
How faster Rapunzel sings, how faster she'll get young. And that's all she cares about... so, why?

I think she was more afraid Rapunzel was phoning it in so it wouldn't work properly.

Phoning what in?
Do you mean dat Gothel dacht dat Rapunzel haar haar niet WOU gebruiken en het daarom zo snel zong?
Want dat snap ik niet echt. Waarom zou Gothel dat denken?

[Super Aurora]

I read some spoiler comments earlier about Rapunzel pushing Gothel and how it didn't sit right with some. Why not? She was hitting Flynn with a frying pan every other minute. Rapunzel struck me as a naive, but tough girl who isn't afraid to defend herself, even physically. She wasn't violent, just very defensive.

Yeah I thought of it the same way. But her naiveness seems make more sense and tolerable than say Snow White's...

Gothel was a good villain, but no where near the best. But her control over Rapunzel reminded me of Frollo and Quasi's relationship. Frollo always reminded Quasi that he was ugly. Where as Gothel compliments herself and never Rapunzel. .

Yeah I made that connection also. I do agree that the relationship with Frollo and Quasi is much better than with Rapunzel-Gothel, but I still enjoy the latter as well and don't see it all that bad to be honest.

Though one big thing missing from Gothel's character....besides Rapunzel's hair, what was her motivations for being immortal? What did she do away from the tower that made living so long, important to her.

Most likely it was vanity. She wanted to remain young and beautiful rather than an old crone.

[Miss Jo]

I keep playing this part over and over and over in my mind:

Flynn/Eugene: Rapunzel . . . you were my new dream.
Rapunzel: And you were mine.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh.

[blackcauldron85]

Also, I'm the only one who thinks it was adorable how Rapunzel kept calling him Eugene after he told her it's his real name?

I liked that, too!

- So the king and queen never questioned Rapunzel was their daughter, that was quick.

I noticed that, too, but maybe they could just tell that it was her...that she still looked like their little girl.

i mean, besides the beast has there ever been a character who's physical appearance has changed so drastically!?

Kenai.

I'm surprised that CJ or Luke haven't done something about the illegal movie clips being floated around here. It's illegal. Most of the film is surely on YouTube by now, and on file sharing sites, I guess, and I hope that Disney is working its tail off to get rid of these illegal versions. See the film in the theater, or wait until it's on DVD/BD. Really. It kind of makes me feel sick.

[Dream Huntress]

I kind of wish we could hear that song talked about earlier in production, "You Are My Forever," where it would be used as both a song between Gothel and Rapunzel, and Rapunzel and Flynn. Too bad that concept didn't make it into the final thing. I'm sure it'll be released in the future though.

Yeah, and considering the whole Flynn/Eugene dying thing and then coming back, "You Are My Forever" would have made sense in context.

I think they also mentioned how the meaning of the song changed depending on who sang it, if it was Gother/Rapunzel then it was about obsession, if it was Flynn/Rapunzel then it became a love song.

I hope it gets included as an extra when they release the DVD.

[wafflenugget]

Drawings from the end credits of Tangled by Shiyoon Kim.

Source: http://shiyoon.blogspot.com/

[Patrick]

I really can't wait to own this.. I've already seen it twice in theaters (once in 2D and once in 3D) and I want to watch it again. I hope there's a relatively quick release like Toy Story 3, even though that was pushed out for Christmas sales.

wafflenugget those are great! Thank you.

[DisneyJedi]

According to some sites, this movie's budget IS $260 million. How does Disney expect Tangled to recoup that much when there are other movies it'll be competing with?!

[Tangled]

[quote="DisneyDude2010"]I love this !
spoilers
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Awww. It was taken off before my usual daily 10:00 PM (where I live) visit to the forum. :,( I also hate how they took off the first Healing Incantation video too.