The Tangled world known as Rapunzel part 4

[Wonderlicious]

SOMEONE HELP ME OUT?!What is 8 PM Eastern time in the European 24-hour time?

Eastern Time I think refers to the time zone that much of the eastern States (New York, Massachusetts, Florida etc), along with the eastern Canadian provinces, naturally, falls into. This is six hours behind CET/GMT+1 (the time zone that much of Continental Europe falls into). Thus, 20:00 ET/GMT-5 (8PM ET/GMT-5) would be 02:00 CET/GMT+1 (2AM CET/GMT+1) the next morning. Phew!



Yours Truly,
Wondy,
UD's official Father Time

[Fairytales]

Okay, but why do they say it is 8 PM then? If it's actually 1:23?

No no, you misunderstand. It is 1:23 PM (actually 1:28 PM) NOW, when I am posting this. From that you should be able to tell when the Tangled party thingy is.

The premiere *party* is probably after the premiere itself. Which is today, in Los Angeles. (Which, to add more confusion, is in the Pacific time zone. Which means the party will be at 5 PM locally.)

Thanks!

[Fairytales]

SOMEONE HELP ME OUT?!What is 8 PM Eastern time in the European 24-hour time?

Eastern Time I think refers to the time zone that much of the eastern States (New York, Massachusetts, Florida etc), along with the eastern Canadian provinces, naturally, falls into. This is six hours behind CET/GMT+1 (the time zone that much of Continental Europe falls into). Thus, 20:00 ET/GMT-5 (8PM ET/GMT-5) would be 02:00 CET/GMT+1 (2AM CET/GMT+1) the next morning. Phew!



Yours Truly,
Wondy,
UD's official Father Time

Darnit, i thought it would be 12 oclock(midnight) here in europe then. But if it's 02:00 .. i can't stay awake for that, i have to get up at 07:00 for school!

[pap64]

I think EVERYONE overreacted.

Jules, I know you are passionate about Disney animation, but I think you can make a statement about current affairs without having to use insults and swears. In my opinion, it just degrades your argument into childish comments. Next time, please be careful.

To everyone else, responding an insult with an insult doesn't help you win the argument. I know we are excited for Tangled, but let's handle ourselves with this discussion.

Now that that is said I personally don't like Cartoon Brew. Yeah I respect Jerry Beck as an animation historian, but many of the posts are spiteful, angry and cynical. The last straw was when they tore down what was basically a FAN movie and insulted its creator. I can tolerate whining about a company like Disney, but when you tear down the efforts of an AMATEUR animator simply because it isn't pretentious enough that's where I draw the line.

I doubt Beck will persuade ANYONE to be in favor or against Tangled. It is just ONE site and ONE opinion. Note that at times they really hate Dreamworks movies and make very long and angry rants about them, and the movies are still a hit, so it doesn't matter what they say in the end. You can disagree or agree with them and form an opinion, but nothing will beat seeing it for yourself and forming your OWN opinion.

Let's not get crazy now and be more tactful next time.

[Jules]

Just because JC called Lasseter a moron doesn't mean that anybody should call JC a moron. He has explained that he was over-reacting, and it is technically against the rules to throw rude names at forum members.

Thanks, though I did kind of deserve it. I admit I do feel kind of bad now. While I've always been sceptical of Lasseter I don't think I really, really meant what I said. At least I don't think it came from the bottom of my heart. I just get very annoyed at the man.

*shakes hands with Mr. Lasseter*

Me: "I promise I won't call you a moron again."

Lasseter: "That's be nice."

Me: "Yes. it would."

Also, despite the disappointment I must make it clear that I am still hugely looking forward to Tangled. And I expect to enjoy it. Jerry Beck's review simply lowers my expecations, that is, I won't be expecting Best Picture material.

Though if you ask me, WDAS should be making Best Picture material. It's about time!

I just know that Tangled is really, really, really, really good.

I have a question. As somebody who's seen the film, do you think Tangled feels inferior to a movie like Toy Story 3 (which I thought was outstanding despite my slight* bias against Pixar)? Or is it just a different kind of film? Perhaps it needs not delve into mature themes as does Toy Story 3? What I mean is, if it is more "light-hearted" entertainment than Toy Story 3 (which it may not be, it's just my suspicion), is it better off that way?

Do you guys think I can atone for my sin by sending Lasseter a "Sorry" card?

[Jules]

Now that that is said I personally don't like Cartoon Brew. Yeah I respect Jerry Beck as an animation historian, but many of the posts are spiteful, angry and cynical. The last straw was when they tore down what was basically a FAN movie and insulted its creator. I can tolerate whining about a company like Disney, but when you tear down the efforts of an AMATEUR animator simply because it isn't pretentious enough that's where I draw the line.

I do like Jerry Beck, a lot. I don't know what he's like in real life, but if I were to bet I'd say he's probably a nice guy. However, I do agree about the cynicism of most who comment. I think it should be pointed out that while Jerry Beck disliked Tangled, he still appreciated the effort that went into creating it. So he wasn't like "Yo! Tangled sucks balls! The story is for pre-pubescent girls". Er ... of course Jerry would never express himself that way, though.

As for the amateur animator you speak of. Might he be Makinita? Jerry has a soft spot for him (and I kind of like him too) but the last time he posted one of Makinita's films (which I'll admit was rather amateurish) they bombed him down like a Japanese war plane (I think I should rethink my similes ).

[Semaj]

Needless to say, I don't think it's necessary to have Alan Menken writing the music for every single Disney film, nor does every Disney film have to be a full-blown musical (or feature Miley Cyrus ). New/other talent needs to have a chance, and using the same writers over and over again for extended periods of times isn't always a good idea.

It's not. There was a time when the remaining Nine Old Men were assigned to keep the animation ship afloat. When it came to training the new animators, whom John Lasseter was once a part of, there was little room for them to develop. The retiring animators held on for as long as they could, and the studio wasn't making many shorts, which could've been a suitable training ground. The department's stall tactics are what I believe led to the failure of The Black Cauldron. (No offense to BC fans.)

Disney today shouldn't be forbidden from ever using fairy tales ever again. The three we've seen since 2007 were the first time they've even made fairy tale features in about a decade and a half. In fact, Disney had long been criticized for NOT using fairy tales. (See what happens when you try to break from a stereotype?)

The challenge is making them new and fresh. They could do a fairy tale without the musical theme; that's only ONE ingredient, and even then not THE ingredient that makes/breaks the entire recipe. They could've made the princes and princesses a little more different than what people normally expect, which I believe they've done greatly with Ariel, Belle, and Jasmine.

Going by the early reception at Cartoon Brew, they just seem jaded with animation in general. It's not just Disney's movies; it's almost everything mainstream that pisses them off.

[phan258]

I think I've found one of the last instances of bear!Flynn–I was poking around a blog called THE ART OF GLEN KEANE and found this. (The gentleman who runs the site thinks it's Keane's work, a commenter think it's Andy Harnkess'–but it's definitely Tangled.)



Source.

According to the artbook, it's Harkness'. I think you're right, it could be bear!Flynn or maybe this version:

[Sotiris]

From Disney's official Twitter:

Catch exclusive behind the scenes footage of Tangled during Miss Congeniality on ABC Family this Tuesday at 7:30/6:30 central.

For anyone interested:

Giveaway – Disney Pictures Tangled Prize Package – Ends 11/24/10
http://sweeps4bloggers.com/?p=11023

[RIPJoeRanft]

Just because JC called Lasseter a moron doesn't mean that anybody should call JC a moron. He has explained that he was over-reacting, and it is technically against the rules to throw rude names at forum members.

Thanks, though I did kind of deserve it. I admit I do feel kind of bad now. While I've always been sceptical of Lasseter I don't think I really, really meant what I said. At least I don't think it came from the bottom of my heart. I just get very annoyed at the man.

*shakes hands with Mr. Lasseter*

Me: "I promise I won't call you a moron again."

Lasseter: "That's be nice."

Me: "Yes. it would."

Also, despite the disappointment I must make it clear that I am still hugely looking forward to Tangled. And I expect to enjoy it. Jerry Beck's review simply lowers my expecations, that is, I won't be expecting Best Picture material.

Though if you ask me, WDAS should be making Best Picture material. It's about time!

I just know that Tangled is really, really, really, really good.

I have a question. As somebody who's seen the film, do you think Tangled feels inferior to a movie like Toy Story 3 (which I thought was outstanding despite my slight* bias against Pixar)? Or is it just a different kind of film? Perhaps it needs not delve into mature themes as does Toy Story 3? What I mean is, if it is more "light-hearted" entertainment than Toy Story 3 (which it may not be, it's just my suspicion), is it better off that way?

Do you guys think I can atone for my sin by sending Lasseter a "Sorry" card?

A card would be a nice gesture . We are all passionate about animation and/or Disney, so I think some heated discussions once and a while are healthy on this board. It's all good.

Anyway, after reading Jerry Beck's review of the film, I think he has some legitimate gripes about it. It doesn't sound vindictive, mean-spirited, or snarky, even if he sometimes can indeed be that way towards mainstream animation. He does praise Tangled quite a bit, particularly the "first-rate" artwork and visuals and the character of Maximus (who, judging from the trailer, seemed to be my early favorite).

But for me, it brings up a few interesting questions to ponder. Are these fairy tale/princess musicals outdated? Even if these films are skillfully animated and carefully produced by Disney, the company that started it all with Snow White over 70 years ago? Is there still a place for animated musicals with full-length songs, which has nearly disappeared from mainstream American animated cinema? Does the general audience in 2010 want more biting humor in their fairy tales like in a Shrek or Hoodwinked?

I don't know much about Tangled's story that Beck calls "trite, cliche, generic" (I've stayed away from most of the clips and spoilers), but I think the American movie-going audience (over the age of, say, 12 who would have a definitive, rational opinion of a movie) are spoiled by Pixar because although Disney Animation has a certain amount of "magic" to many of their films, Pixar's stories (particularly more recent works like the Toy Story trilogy, Up, and WALL-E) are more layered, complex, and deal with real-life issues (ex. abandonment and immortality in Toy Story 3, death and aging in Up, the future of humanity in WALL-E). Not to say that Disney Animation is a slouch in that area, but fairy tales sometimes can't quite deliver the same impact that those films can. So its understandable if Tangled's more simplistic story is not going to stack up against some of Pixar and even Dreamworks best stuff, but I like to believe that they can make up for it with strong traces of humor, drama, human emotion, charm, great music, and fun characters.

One area of concern I have is the soundtrack that was singled out in the review as "unmemorable". Being Alan Menken, that should be an easy slam dunk for the film, and if it doesn't resonate with the audience, that is bad news for the success Tangled. And during the "Disney Renaissance" period (which Menken had a huge role in), the songs were so artfully placed to advance and enhance the story and keep things moving at a healthy pace. And the majority of them were engraved in your head after a viewing. I did enjoy the songs in The Princess and the Frog (and thought songs like "Friends on the Other Side" and "Ma Belle Evangeline" were the strongest Disney has had in a film in well over a decade), so I'm hoping I disagree with Beck in this area.

[Fairytales]

I really love "Something That I Want" now, (the new uptempo version)

'Can't you see that what you need is standing right in front of you!'
I love they put that line in, to make Rapunzel realize she needs Flynn and vice versa

[dollover]

About the Ariel/Rapunzel thing, in my original post I stated that *2D* Rapunzel, in her final (or almost final) design, not CG Rapunzel looks identical to Ariel. I actually think CG Rapunzel thankfully doesn't look much like Ariel at all. And 2D final design Flynn looks way better than his CG counterpart, which looks more rounded and bug eyed.

[Fairytales]

Does someone happen to have the new version of the "something that i want" song (the one with changed lyrics) but uptempo? I only can find the acoustic version, but i want the one you hear on radio disney.

[pap64]

Now that that is said I personally don't like Cartoon Brew. Yeah I respect Jerry Beck as an animation historian, but many of the posts are spiteful, angry and cynical. The last straw was when they tore down what was basically a FAN movie and insulted its creator. I can tolerate whining about a company like Disney, but when you tear down the efforts of an AMATEUR animator simply because it isn't pretentious enough that's where I draw the line.

I do like Jerry Beck, a lot. I don't know what he's like in real life, but if I were to bet I'd say he's probably a nice guy. However, I do agree about the cynicism of most who comment. I think it should be pointed out that while Jerry Beck disliked Tangled, he still appreciated the effort that went into creating it. So he wasn't like "Yo! Tangled sucks balls! The story is for pre-pubescent girls". Er ... of course Jerry would never express himself that way, though.

As for the amateur animator you speak of. Might he be Makinita? Jerry has a soft spot for him (and I kind of like him too) but the last time he posted one of Makinita's films (which I'll admit was rather amateurish) they bombed him down like a Japanese war plane (I think I should rethink my similes ).

I am mainly talking about the commenters and especially Amid. Jerry seems to be like a very nice guy, smart and fair. Amid, however, is very spiteful in his posts, often finding a lot to ridicule in something that is small or innocent. I got tired of his Dreamworks bashing rather quickly as he mainly says "How To Train Your Dragon came out...Let's see how much this fails", and I recall people ganging up on other people defending the film. I don't like that.

Actually, the animator I was talking about was Eric Power Up, a reviewer that often does his reviews via paper animation, or often does short music videos with paper models. His work ain't perfect, but considering that he is doing this by himself and for the hell of it, he is doing great. He did a review of Prince Achmed by replicating the shadow look of the original movie and it was great.

The problem was that when one of his videos was posted on Cartoon Brew they bashed him for being uncultured, untalented and many other things without actually commenting on the quality of the video. In other words, they complained more about the short ad at the beginning of the video rather than the whole thing. And note that these are supposed to be "industry experts". I understand that they may be biased and that they worked in a very harsh industry, but that's no excuse to look down upon the efforts of others, say they suck and yell at them just because of your own anger and frustration. That isn't progressing the art of animation, that regressing it into being a field for elitists.

[DisneyDude2010]

I really hope another new clip appears tomorrow!!
I love them

to pass the time what is your favourite clip and least favourite clips?

[Semaj]

I do like Jerry Beck, a lot. I don't know what he's like in real life, but if I were to bet I'd say he's probably a nice guy. However, I do agree about the cynicism of most who comment. I think it should be pointed out that while Jerry Beck disliked Tangled, he still appreciated the effort that went into creating it. So he wasn't like "Yo! Tangled sucks balls! The story is for pre-pubescent girls". Er ... of course Jerry would never express himself that way, though.

As for the amateur animator you speak of. Might he be Makinita? Jerry has a soft spot for him (and I kind of like him too) but the last time he posted one of Makinita's films (which I'll admit was rather amateurish) they bombed him down like a Japanese war plane (I think I should rethink my similes ).

I am mainly talking about the commenters and especially Amid. Jerry seems to be like a very nice guy, smart and fair. Amid, however, is very spiteful in his posts, often finding a lot to ridicule in something that is small or innocent. I got tired of his Dreamworks bashing rather quickly as he mainly says "How To Train Your Dragon came out...Let's see how much this fails", and I recall people ganging up on other people defending the film. I don't like that.

Actually, the animator I was talking about was Eric Power Up, a reviewer that often does his reviews via paper animation, or often does short music videos with paper models. His work ain't perfect, but considering that he is doing this by himself and for the hell of it, he is doing great. He did a review of Prince Achmed by replicating the shadow look of the original movie and it was great.

The problem was that when one of his videos was posted on Cartoon Brew they bashed him for being uncultured, untalented and many other things without actually commenting on the quality of the video. In other words, they complained more about the short ad at the beginning of the video rather than the whole thing. And note that these are supposed to be "industry experts". I understand that they may be biased and that they worked in a very harsh industry, but that's no excuse to look down upon the efforts of others, say they suck and yell at them just because of your own anger and frustration. That isn't progressing the art of animation, that regressing it into being a field for elitists.

Cartoon Brew is generous compared to some other blogs/boards I've visited.

The worst offender of this elitism is John K.'s blog. He hates a lot about Disney, old AND new. Worse, many of his listeners, some professional associates, some fanboys copy everything he says on almost every other message board or blog. Now, a lot of particularly good cartoons are condemned due to the unfair criteria of one angry artist.

Long story short, they're not fans of Pixar either, and again, it's because to them, every "great" cartoon must be akin to the classic Looney Tunes style.

[mawnck]

[quote="]As somebody who's seen the film, do you think Tangled feels inferior to a movie like Toy Story 3 (which I thought was outstanding despite my slight* bias against Pixar)?[/quote]

Posting on iphone, please forgive typing.

I think it's comparing apples and oranges. I suspect the one you think is "best" depends what you like. I thought both were great, and won'tsay which is best until Isee Tangled in finished form.

Theyre setting up red carpet right across street from me. Nowhere near done. 5 PM might be when they do the actual red carpet walk.

[Disney's Divinity]

But for me, it brings up a few interesting questions to ponder. Are these fairy tale/princess musicals outdated? Even if these films are skillfully animated and carefully produced by Disney, the company that started it all with Snow White over 70 years ago? Is there still a place for animated musicals with full-length songs, which has nearly disappeared from mainstream American animated cinema? Does the general audience in 2010 want more biting humor in their fairy tales like in a Shrek or Hoodwinked?

Well, besides the fact that I wouldn't agree that Shrek has biting humor, I'm also not sure if SW, Cinderella, or Sleeping Beauty are musicals. Mermaid, Aladdin, B&tB were where the animated fairy tale musical started. The previous three, like most older Disney films, were just movies that just happened to have songs--few, if any, of the songs furthered the story in the same fashion as a musical. They usually expressed a mood or just entertained. I don't remember anything like "Poor Unfortunate Souls" or "Belle" in those films. That doesn't make them bad (or the modern films good), but it is a point of difference.

But I think it's fair to say that the genre may be outdated. The '90s saw too many of them, to the point that I think the public is tired with it (and everyone started to expect that all 2D films must be musicals). They do need to come up with something new if they plan to "restart" with another princess film. The musical is what Mermaid re-started with, and even the way the story was told was rather different than past films. TP&TF and Tangled seem to mostly be done the same way. The substance of their films may be handled well (imo), but they haven't exactly brought anything new. Just to be clear, I'm not saying they're re-hashes (that would imply that they're copy and paste versions of older films), but there's nothing really fresh about them.

I think the American movie-going audience (over the age of, say, 12 who would have a definitive, rational opinion of a movie) are spoiled by Pixar because although Disney Animation has a certain amount of "magic" to many of their films, Pixar's stories (particularly more recent works like the Toy Story trilogy, Up, and WALL-E) are more layered, complex, and deal with real-life issues.

Well, tbh, I don't find Pixar films to be complex or layered (except for the Toy Story films). They do deal with real-life issues, in a rather matter-of-fact, cliche way (almost like a live-action film in CG), but having old characters or a movie set post-global warming doesn't automatically make a film complex.

But it's important to recognize that, for whatever reason, Pixar is a successful brand name for modern audiences. I think Disney will have to end up changing (for better or worse) to compete. This doesn't mean they should become "un-Disney" or "like Pixar," but like with the 90s, they need to add something new to the process to help themselves stand out again. And, tbh, I'm not expecting that from Tangled--though I hope to enjoy it.

[phan258]

I think it's comparing apples and oranges. I suspect the one you think is "best" depends what you like. I thought both were great, and won'tsay which is best until Isee Tangled in finished form.

This. I would never say TS3 isn't a brilliant film, because it is, but I love Tangled so much more. It's a matter of preference.

[BK]

With fear of spoilers I've avoided this thread as much as possible but I just had to come in and say, is that sig for real?

The one with 'It ain't no princess movie!'? EFF U DIZNEY if it is.

How stupid can the marketing get.