The Tangled world known as Rapunzel part 4

[Semaj]

Flynn, at least from the trailers comes off as the least interesting character in the film. The trailers have been pushing the two things that sorta bothers me; the Smolder (seeing as how only a few people will immediately know what that's about, it's extremely awkward seeing it in preview form.), and that douchebag grin! (More of a DreamWorks trait.)

Nevertheless, this is Marketing's fault for pushing the least interesting aspects of the film. Clumsily splitting between the male demos and the female demos.
If the movie tanks, people shouldn't blame John Lasseter; he has succeeded in making Disney's films more consistent. It's the MARKETING that seems to mute the importance behind Disney's mission to catch up with Pixar and the rest.

[Polizzi]

Everybody read this!

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/disne ... l#comments

If Tangled really is just another bland retread of Disney fairytale musicals with absolutely no innovation then I've officially lost my faith in WDAS under Lasseter's guidance.

Lasseter is a fucking moron and he needs to go.

That is just one negative review. I believe that when Disney's, "Rapunzel (Tangled)," hits theaters, it would most likely receive more positive reviews than negative reviews. Even thought the story could use a little more work, but still worth seeing to enjoy. To my belief, it is not about how the story goes, the music goes, the songs go, or how the humor goes, it is how to enjoy it that counts. So even though you have posted a review that is negative, I believe that there will be plenty of positive reviews when the movie comes out in theaters.

[wafflenugget]

@wafflenugget: Thanks for the concept art you've posted. Where did you find these anyway?

No problem I found them at <a href="http://sevencamels.blogspot.com/">Mark Kennedy's blog</a> and <a href="http://cosmoanimato.blogspot.com/">Jin Kim's blog</a>.

Thanks for the videos. The new footage is great, and I love the interview. By the way for people avoiding spoilers, there's a major spoiler in the featurette.

[Jules]

Perhaps I over-reacted. Reading that review just seemed to confirm that the film lacks in some, or most, departments. I'll admit expecting story innovation from a film based on the Rapunzel tale may be silly, but deep down I was hoping there'd be something to distinguish the movie, in a good way. Something to make it stand out from the crowd. Unfortunately under John Lasseter I've seen only conservatism and traditionalism, which is a direct path to stagnation. Meet the Robinsons - an imperfect film - remains one of my favourite recent Disney films ... because it felt vastly different in comparison to the usual Disney output, and had its heart in the right place. And that was a film that didn't get tampered much by the Pixar braintrust. Maybe that was a good thing.

You have to keep in mind that Jerry and a lot of the folks over at cartoon brew are not at all big fans of the fairytale, musical, princess, Disney movie. So even if a wonderful movie came out, but was under that banner, they probably wouldn't be totally satisfied. They want to see innovation and risk-taking. Which I would love to see as well, but at the same time, Disney fairy tales have been my favorite movies my whole life, and so I'll welcome another one. Yes, even if it's just more of the same.

Well, Jerry liked The Princess and the Frog last year. He thought it was "a winner". I was disappointed. Mind you, I do really like musical fairy tale films too, but more than that I treasure the more experimental breed of films, both thematically (e.g. "Fantasia 2000 or Lilo & Stitch") as well as design-wise (e.e. the Mike Mignola styling in "Atlantis" or the Hirschfeldian lines in "Rhapsody in Blue"). I'm fascinated by this stuff, and want Disney to do more of it.

In my anger I called Lasseter a "moron" because in my opinion he seems to be stifling artistic expression at WDAS. No way under this man would Fantasia 2000 or Destino have been completed. I feel he still has to prove himself to me as a man with a vision. I don't think much of his "Winnie the Pooh" vision. I expect that film to be of reasonable quality, but I don't expect it to move into new territory or take my beloved art of animation to new heights.

Yes. I'm one of those people who get an artistic orgasm viewing stuff like Fantasia or The Thief and the Cobbler. We don't get much love.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way ... this:

Wow. One negative review and you just throw your hands in the air and start swearing at Lasseter?

... sounds damn funny.

[RIPJoeRanft]

Deleted!

[janesjubilee]

Everybody read this!

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/disne ... l#comments

If Tangled really is just another bland retread of Disney fairytale musicals with absolutely no innovation then I've officially lost my faith in WDAS under Lasseter's guidance.

Lasseter is a fucking moron and he needs to go.

One bad review. Just one, and you think this is a terrible movie? There have already been a ton of great reviews of this film. Plus, that blog does nothing but complain. They're all morons, like you.

No movie is going to be absolutely perfect. Just deal with what they have now because they put a shit load of work into it. If you don't like the story line, at least appreciate the effort that was made into this film. They animators deserve at least that.

Also, don't even mention how Lasseter is a "fucking moron." He completely changed Disney around. He's very passionate about the company and wanted 2D to be back. So please, just shut up.

Sorry for my rant, I just get pissed off when people talk badly about Lasseter.

I've been watching all the videos today and I just don't like Mandy's voice for Rapunzel. Which is making me very disappointed.

I read that negative review posted above and the author make mention of the movie being geared towards "the Hannah Montana crowd". Mandy's voice really makes me think this is true. I really don't like how "pop tween-teenager" she sounds.

Why doesn't Disney get new unknown people for voices?

They did that with PatF, remember? No one knew the actors which was probably another reason why it didn't do so well at box office.

Whenever I mention that Mandy Moore is in Tangled, a ton of people just look up and go "I LOVE her, need to see this movie now."

Also, remember, Tangled isn't marketed just to us "hard core Disney fans," they need to market to everyone else too. Plus, I rather see Tangled shirts everywhere than Hannah Montana.

And, I think Mandy's voice is perfect, it sounds very sweet and naive, just like Rapunzel.

[blackcauldron85]

Two hours later, I'm finally caught up with this thread...

The Tangled soundtrack wasn't listed in the Sunday ads today...

YouTube soundtrack sampler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pqNjTlO ... re=related

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG I love it!

The score is amazing. While I love the soundtrack to TP&tF, and it's one of my favorites, I'm so excited for a Menken score again! "I See the Light"...ugh, I am still in love with this song. It's amazing.

Mandy looks amazing in the interview Sotiris posted on Wednesday...she's glowing or something <3

OMG Rob you met Glen Keane... OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

And I listened to the song clips and somehow missed Toddler Rapunzel singing...?

I love Flynn and Max...love them. So funny together!

OMG Flynn as a "big guy"... OMG... he's adorable. Not that I don't love me some current Flynn, but I like the idea of a bigger leading man. Very cute either way!

Im more worried about Disney themselves being biased than the fans. because if this does better that will feed into that Eisner mentality that audiences don't want hand drawn anymore. I know new management doesnt think that way, but when they look at their recent hand drawn outings and compare it to Rapunzel and Pixar's success they might hold as strongly to the belief that the medium doesn't matter.

I have this fear as well. I adore TP&tF, and I don't know how Tangled will fit into my favorite DACs, but the story is really what it comes down to (and characters and music, etc.). I'm loving everything I've seen and read and heard for Tangled so far, but TP&tF will always be a favorite of mine. I wish people wouldn't always compare the two films...

[Polizzi]

IF John Lasseter is a moron, then why is his first computer animated movie from Disney and Pixar's, "Toy Story," became popular. Since that Disney and Pixar, "Toy Story," changed the faces of animation forever, then I say that John Lasseter is a very successful man. If not, then yes he would be not a moron, but a failure. The way I see John Lasseter, I see him as a very confident man, who makes absolute sure that every animated movie does well, than letting it get out of hand since, "Home on the Range," or other movies that are floppy. Why would people assume that John Lasseter is a fool since Disney and Pixar's first computer animated, "Toy Story," became highly successful, especially Disney and Pixar's, "Toy Story 3," which he also is part of as an executive producer? I believe that the reason why Disney's, "Rapunzel (Tangled)," needs a little more work, but I believe that it will top it off, is because the more John Lasseter corrects the animation, scenes, and everything on that movie as an executive producer, the longer it would take to produce the movie. I know that Jeffrey Katzenberg, who used to be executive producer at Disney, was holder the production too long, that is why the people at Disney wanted him either to stop being so pushy, or he will get fired (I could not tell if he is fired or if he resigns. I think that he is fired, but that is when he started DreamWorks.). That could be the reason that one time, Glen Keane made a minor suggestion about postponing the production of Disney's, "Rapunzel (Tangled)," but John Lasseter was not willing to give up. I believe that he would stop at nothing to produce a good movie, since his first direction for Disney and Pixar's, "Toy Story." Anyways, for the record, he is NOT a moron, he is an achiever, like Glen Keane. He sometimes may be a little bit of a push over, but he would never let any Disney movie hold back.

[wafflenugget]

And I listened to the song clips and somehow missed Toddler Rapunzel singing...?

You can hear toddler Rapunzel in the Prologue clip here: http://adisney.go.com/disneypictures/tangled/#/music Some of the other clips are different from the Amazon ones, so you should listen to them as well ^^

[phan258]

Wow, what happened? Where did all the negativity come from? D:

Re: Ariel/Rapunzel--do they look similar? Yes. Exactly alike? No! The concept art, especially the work by Glen Keane, is where they look most alike; in the movie itself, Rapunzel is very much her own person. I was not once distracted while looking at her with thoughts of 'it's Ariel only blonde!' No. Flynn looks like Tarzan in the Keane sketches, but obviously the final products look nothing alike (Flynn has less hair and more clothes )

Re: Lasseter being an idiot: AHAHAHAHA. You serious?

Re: Mandy Moore: I will own up to being one of those people who went "Mandy Moore, whaaaaat" when I found out she was involved in the film--and NOT because I'm a rabid Chenoweth fan, but because all I could think of was that song 'Candy.' But after hearing her in action, she totally and completely won me over. Honestly I'm baffled by all the 'teenybopper' accusations I keep seeing here & elsewhere--she is supposed to sound like a young woman, and not once did I wince or think 'ugh, tone it down.' Mandy, you have a new fan right here.

[Fairytales]

O gosh, did i miss the premiere party report?
I just (a few minutes ago) heard the same thing on the radio: "Tonight at 8 pm eastern time, tangled premiere party!'
But according to some online clocks with eastern times it's already 12 pm?


SOMEONE HELP ME OUT?!What is 8 PM Eastern time in the European 24-hour time?

[eralkfang]

I just rewatched <i>The Little Mermaid</i> last night–while Ariel and Rapunzel are similar (itty bitty girls with big, expressive eyes and lots of hair), their designs are plenty different. Ariel has a massive forehead with a more pointed face; Rapunzel's face is broader, as are her expressions. (I can't see Ariel making the :B face, but Rapunzel's already done it in some clips.)

I'll be the first to admit that I was saddened when Chenoweth was dropped for Moore, but I quite like it now–Chenoweth would sound too old for a young woman, and Mandy has an earnest, believable quality to her voice that works well for Rapunzel. As far as the "teenyboppers" charge goes, I doubt the current crop of tween girls know Moore that well.

[Jules]

Hahahaha!

[blackcauldron85]

Thanks, wafflenugget! Aww, it's cute!

[mawnck]

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/disney-tangled.html

Oh man, I wish Jerry had saved that for after the release. He just made sure that some of Tangled's biggest potential fans won't go see it.

An observation about the comments there ... they fall into three neat categories:
(1) Disgruntled present and former employees.
(2) People who are dissing Tangled and haven't seen it.
(3) People who are defending Tangled and HAVE seen it.

I just know that Tangled is really, really, really, really good. Dissing it for being a Disney princess movie is just silly. It IS a Disney princess movie. Dang good one.

[Wonderlicious]

Just because JC called Lasseter a moron doesn't mean that anybody should call JC a moron. He has explained that he was over-reacting, and it is technically against the rules to throw rude names at forum members.

I can actually kinda see why some people are upset with Lasseter and his dealings with WDAS. The general direction of the studio is as confused as ever, seeming like an odd mix of highly commercial, easy-to-merchandise projects. Some of the films that have come out seem a bit watered down from their original vision, and seem ridiculously commercial, even if actually good films overall. Bolt was a fun flick with an overall decent story and lush look, but it might have been at the very least more interesting had Chris Sanders helmed it or had some of his original quirky trademarks remained. The Princess and the Frog was a very good film but seemed to succumb to the demands of Consumer Products. As for Tangled, I'm simply glad that they swayed away from the Rapunzel Unbraided plot, even though I would have preferred it had they gone for the darker, more fantastical tone that some of the earlier concept art suggested.

Needless to say, I'm going to take a lot of Jerry Beck's opinion with a pinch of salt. SWillie summed up my feelings overall:

You have to keep in mind that Jerry and a lot of the folks over at cartoon brew are not at all big fans of the fairytale, musical, princess, Disney movie. So even if a wonderful movie came out, but was under that banner, they probably wouldn't be totally satisfied.

These are basically my thoughts on the matter. I understand that Jerry Beck liked The Princess and the Frog, but you can tell that he views it almost as a guilty pleasure (his use of "say what you like about it, but..."). I equally get the impression from my odd view that many of the people at Cartoon Brew are suspicious about mass-produced studio animation (not that I blame them - I'm glad Jerry mentioned the stupidity of branding everything with "Disney" as opposed to the possessive and more personal "Disney's"). The Rapunzel story has always been one of my favourite fairy tales, and I've always wanted Disney to make this film. Whereas The Princess and the Frog probably excited me simply for being another hand-drawn film after a long dry spell, Rapunzel/Tangled interested me more based on its sheer story potential. When Disney released info on all its films for the next five years a few years ago, I ranked what was then Rapunzel (along with Bear and the Bow, now Brave) above The Princess and the Frog.

As for Menken's soundtrack, I think it's safe to say that most his soundtracks have one or two tunes that don't seem to really stick out. In fact, I think that's the same with any soundtrack for any musical. The only soundtrack of Menken's that I feel probably has the most consistent number of truly memorable tunes is Aladdin, though that may be out of bias due to being acquainted with the soundtrack quite a bit more than the others. From the snippets we've heard so far, I think it's safe to say that Tangled has a good number of memorable songs, even if it's not up there with Beauty and the Beast or Aladdin; the token ensemble number, "I Have a Dream", ironically is the one that doesn't stick in my head all that much. Needless to say, I don't think it's necessary to have Alan Menken writing the music for every single Disney film, nor does every Disney film have to be a full-blown musical (or feature Miley Cyrus ). New/other talent needs to have a chance, and using the same writers over and over again for extended periods of times isn't always a good idea.

[mawnck]

O gosh, did i miss the premiere party report?
I just (a few minutes ago) heard the same thing on the radio: "Tonight at 8 pm eastern time, tangled premiere party!'
But according to some online clocks with eastern times it's already 12 pm?

Don't know about European time, but at the sound of the tone, it will be 1:23 PM Eastern, 10:23 AM Pacific.

Beep!

[Fairytales]

O gosh, did i miss the premiere party report?
I just (a few minutes ago) heard the same thing on the radio: "Tonight at 8 pm eastern time, tangled premiere party!'
But according to some online clocks with eastern times it's already 12 pm?

Don't know about European time, but at the sound of the tone, it will be 1:23 PM Eastern, 10:23 AM Pacific.

Beep!

Okay, but why do they say it is 8 PM then? If it's actually 1:23?

[mawnck]

Don't know about European time, but at the sound of the tone, it will be 1:23 PM Eastern, 10:23 AM Pacific.

Beep!

Okay, but why do they say it is 8 PM then? If it's actually 1:23?

No no, you misunderstand. It is 1:23 PM (actually 1:28 PM) NOW, when I am posting this. From that you should be able to tell when the Tangled party thingy is.

The premiere *party* is probably after the premiere itself. Which is today, in Los Angeles. (Which, to add more confusion, is in the Pacific time zone. Which means the party will be at 5 PM locally.)

[eralkfang]

I think I've found one of the last instances of bear!Flynn–I was poking around a blog called THE ART OF GLEN KEANE and found this. (The gentleman who runs the site thinks it's Keane's work, a commenter think it's Andy Harnkess'–but it's definitely Tangled.)



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