Episode 3: Revenge of the Gays, Are You One Too?

[Goliath]

To milojthatch (Edit: though this is probably unnecessary now that Goliath's posted):

Nonsense, it's not unnecessary. It's good that as much people as possible take a stance against such homophobia. So thanks for making that post!

Of course, I agree with everything you said, except for this little bit (and I know I should let it go, because you're making a good point against milojthatch, but I can't):

(that's at its heart, unfair--especially for people who are risking their lives for you; it's sad that some people can't see that reality).

I always cringe when I hear that expression tossed around, because it's not true. Soldiers aren't risking their lives or even dying for you and me. They're risking their lives or are dying for the strategic and political interests of the countries they serve, and for the profits of multibillion dollar corporations who want to get their hands on the invaded country's natural resources. American soldiers are dying for Halliburton and their stock holders (like Dick Cheney), not for you and me. (Al Qu'aida is now in Somalia and Yemen, not Iraq or Afghanistan.)

[Flanger-Hanger]

While I could respond to milo's post I believe the two above mine (especially Goliath) say it all.

I will however say that I do enjoy my freedom as I live in a country where no such policy as DADT exists (and gay marriage has for years too) and society has not crumbled as a result.

[Duckburger]

I think the whole DADT policy is quite a non-issue. For example looking at the huge amount of countries in Europe alone that allow gay people to serve openly: Albania, Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Roemania, Russia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom. Greece is an exception though, oddly enough...

I haven't heard of many lawsuits coming from those countries over this issue in particular. They haven't been blown up either. But seriously though, I think the issue isn't so much about the policy itself, but more about the fact that it makes people feel inferior to their peers. Just like all those marriage and adoption propositions going on right now in the US. Equality is the key word. Though I will agree that even if DADT was over-ruled, I would assume that the majority of the gay people in the US military would still choose to not serve openly, as it's not known to be the most excepting country of 'em all in this area.

Either way, most of these rights are denied by conservative leaders, who -humourously enough- usually have something to hide themselves. *cough* Senator Larry Craig *cough* Google Images provides the lolz.

[Goliath]

I think the whole DADT policy is quite a non-issue. For example looking at the huge amount of countries in Europe alone that allow gay people to serve openly: Albania, Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Roemania, Russia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom.

You're sure ALL those countries allow homosexuals to serve openly in their military? ALL of them? Even notoriously homophobic countries like Albania, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Russia (in the latter's army *everybody* gets beaten up, by the way). Those are countries where violence against gays is very common, I've read. Congratulations, America, you're behind Albania now!

Greece is an exception though, oddly enough...

That actually IS funny!

[CJ]

I shouldn't have to say this, but bashing of any kind will not be tolerated. Homophobic remarks are just as taboo around here, as are remarks that can be perceived as racist. I view any such remarks as attacks against your fellow members. And as we all know, attacks against any forum member are not allowed. I will be monitoring this thread, so I highly advise everyone against participating in any such deplorable behavior.

[Duckburger]

You're sure ALL those countries allow homosexuals to serve openly in their military? ALL of them? Even notoriously homophobic countries like Albania, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Russia (in the latter's army *everybody* gets beaten up, by the way). Those are countries where violence against gays is very common, I've read. Congratulations, America, you're behind Albania now!

Almost 100% sure. I did a quick Wikipedia search, and every country listed has a credible source, except Albania, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere else that Albania does allow them to serve openly, if I find a link I'll post it. Poland is also different from the other countries, they don't even mention gay people joining the military in the laws, so it's allowed by default, but there is a lot of hostility against gays there apparantly. But still... not forbidden. I think that's the case with most of the Eastern European countries. Nobody is forbidden to join, but it wouldn't be recommended to join if you're gay.

[Disney Duster]

milojthatch, well, the thing is, we know that they will get beaten up or hurt at first, but making it open is a step. Eventually, after resistance at first, and people getting taken out of the military for their resistance, gay people will finally feel safe being in the military.

CJ (and Goliath), I actually didn't think milojthatch was being homophobic...or attacking any of us here at all (and I'm really gay, and have taken offense at a lot of things). All I saw was an opinion, and debating what really makes gay people safe. I saw it as about our protection.

Super Aurora, he was found out and arrested. That is not coming out of the closet, and when we talk about coming out of the closet here, we are only referring to gays coming out of the closet that they are gay, not anything that guy did. Your post would have been funny in a more appropriate thread.

[Super Aurora]

Super Aurora, he was found out and arrested. That is not coming out of the closet, and when we talk about coming out of the closet here, we are only referring to gays coming out of the closet that they are gay, not anything that guy did. Your post would have been funny in a more appropriate thread.

ah well i apologize then. I could sworn it said something that he as also gay. My bad.

I didn't post that be funny or mean.






btw, my school schedule is doing fine so I can come online more often than i thought. You can respond to my pms now if you like.

[Disney's Divinity]

I always cringe when I hear that expression tossed around, because it's not true. Soldiers aren't risking their lives or even dying for you and me. They're risking their lives or are dying for the strategic and political interests of the countries they serve, and for the profits of multibillion dollar corporations who want to get their hands on the invaded country's natural resources. American soldiers are dying for Halliburton and their stock holders (like Dick Cheney), not for you and me. (Al Qu'aida is now in Somalia and Yemen, not Iraq or Afghanistan.)

I understand that. But most people who enlist do so out of love for the lives of their families, and others in the US. That's what context I was talking in--what the soldiers (the gay soldiers, in this case) were joining for. I doubt they intentionally joined to support big businesses. I'm sure many of the soldiers don't even support the war.

[Disney Duster]

Super Aurora, it's okay, and it is really big of you to apologize like that. I stopped reading the article when I got to really gross parts, so I don't know if it said he was gay, but he seemed to dress as a woman and steal their worn, used underwear because he likes women, I don't think he was gay but you can check.

But please, only post about things appropriate to this thread next time.

I have been working on a pm for you, I have so many things to do and so little time.

[Goliath]

I understand that. But most people who enlist do so out of love for the lives of their families, and others in the US. That's what context I was talking in--what the soldiers (the gay soldiers, in this case) were joining for. I doubt they intentionally joined to support big businesses. I'm sure many of the soldiers don't even support the war.

You're correct about that. Though it's also true that many young people also join as a way to pay for their college education, or because there's no other jobs available where they live, which is really the saddest part. I didn't mean to take away from your point, which you worded so well, about gay soldiers putting their lives on the line for the same bigots who don't want them to serve. Like I said, I should've let it go, but... can I *ever* let anything go on UD?

[TheSequelOfDisney]

I don't frequent this thread too often, but a friend of mine found this article which is rather disturbing and, frankly, deplorable and disgusting. I don't speak out that much, but this person should definitely get fired and sent to a mental institution:

It's scary to think that a person who believes gay kids deserve suicide has a position of power within a school district. But sure enough, Clint McCance is a school board member at Midland School District in Arkansas. And he has some absolutely troubling and disturbing views when it comes to homosexuality, according to HRC Backstory.

McCance took to his Facebook page last week, to blast what became known as Spirit Day, a day where all around the country, people wore the color purple to remember those LGBT students who were victims of bullying or suicide. For McCance, this was nothing more than a day of honoring "sin."

"Seriously they want me to wear purple because five queers committed suicide. The only way I'm wearin' it for them is if they all commit suicide," McCance said, in one of the most ugly outbursts in recent memory. "I can't believe the people of this world have gotten this stupid. We are honoring the fact that they sinned and killed themselves because of their sin."

It merits repeating once again that McCance, as a school board member in the Midland School District, is in a position of power where he helps set the education policy for students in the district. It should be more than alarming to administrators that McCance took to his Facebook page to suggest that all gay kids should commit suicide.

But alas, McCance didn't stop there. He started to engage his Facebook followers with even more homophobic rhetoric.

"Being a fag doesn't give you the right to ruin the rest of our lives. If you get easily offended by being called a fag then don't tell anyone you are a fag. Keep that shit to yourself," McCance wrote. "It pisses me off though that we make a special purple fag day for them. I like that fags cant procreate. I also enjoy the fact that they often give each other aids and die."

Let's repeat this once again: this is a school board member. Someone charged with upholding the Midland School District's mission of "making a difference" in the lives of students. And his reaction to the recent spate of anti-gay bullying and LGBT students who have committed suicide? To release a diatribe so vile, it makes the Westboro Baptist Church look like Miss Manners.

Please take action and let the Midland School District know that this kind of language from a school board member is exactly the reason we live in a country where schools are toxic for LGBT students. This simply can't be excusable.

A Facebook page calling for McCance to be fired has already attracted 1,100 members (and growing), and today the Human Rights Campaign's President, Joe Solmonese, released a powerful statement about the negative effect rhetoric like McCance's has on all students, gay and straight alike.

"Clint McCance has put a face on the hate that devastates our young people,” said Solmonese. “McCance and his hate shouldn’t be allowed near children, let alone managing their education. We call for his immediate resignation from the school board.”

Echo their call by writing to the Midland School Board today. I'm reminded of a post earlier today that talked about a Texas Pastor who said it was a moral imperative to condemn gay bullying. His words? "Too often, moderate voices sideline themselves, not wanting to rock the boat. The recent epidemic of bullying-related teen suicides is a wake-up call."

Indeed it is ... a wake-up call to all of us that regardless of our politics, language like this from a school official shouldn't be tolerated.

http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/a ... ds_and_die

[Lazario]

regardless if you see homosexuality as a correct lifestyle or not.

Mr. Thatch? Is that your real last name(?)... I read to you the Dictionary Definition of the word "lifestyle" :

A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes and values of a person or group.

A person's sexuality is not a type of clothing they wear, food they eat, how much money they make, or habit they have. It is internal- comes from the inside. A lifestyle is smoking and drinking, wearing furs, buying cars and houses, or hell- wearing boots and plaid, heels and fake nails, wigs or fedora hats; surfing, driving a truck, living in a trailer, etc.

Homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle. Do you understand this? If you believe otherwise, than you are as gay as I am, lust after men, and simply choose not to have sex with them. Of course, you would never admit this since you use being straight as a way to say you're better than other people.

Seriously- I'm real damn sick of people saying they are better than a bunch of people just because of the way you were born. You were born lucky- IT WAS A STROKE OF LUCK. That is all, Milo. Get that into your head. Because I am sick of your arrogance. You, and any and every one else here who refuse to accept the truth: being straight does not make you better than other people.

Got it?

[ajmrowland]

that article sickens me.

[Disney Duster]

Yea, that articel was terrible. Can't believe he said that, and was in that position, I can't believe any of it! The time period for signing the petition to get him fired ended, but I wanted to sign it.

Lazario, I always felt kind of special that I was gay. Ever since I was a kid I was different, and was picked on for it, but I did like that I was unique, and when I found out I was gay, I was eventually happy, I felt special, not to mention I felt part of what I was that I had never known before. So, we're better than the straighties, especially the hating straighties! Yea!

[Chernabog_Rocks]

So, we're better than the straighties, especially the hating straighties! Yea!

Not really, in my opinion.

Straight people are not better than members of the LGBT community just because they are straight. -Just- like members of the LGBT community are not better than straight people because they are LGBT.

Behavior is up for debate though I would imagine. A person who is well mannered is probably going to be seen as being better than someone who spouts bigotry and racsim.

While it's more than alright to feel special, just keep in mind it doesn't magically make you better than people who don't share that trait Since that is how it's sounding right now.

[Super Aurora]

So, we're better than the straighties, especially the hating straighties! Yea!

Not really, in my opinion.

Straight people are not better than members of the LGBT community just because they are straight. -Just- like members of the LGBT community are not better than straight people because they are LGBT.

Behavior is up for debate though I would imagine. A person who is well mannered is probably going to be seen as being better than someone who spouts bigotry and racsim.

While it's more than alright to feel special, just keep in mind it doesn't magically make you better than people who don't share that trait Since that is how it's sounding right now.

[Disney Duster]

Seems I don't get other people's humor, and they don't get mine. Or my attempts to cheer people up. Or what I really mean.

Chernabog don't worry, you didn't need to tell me that, is what I'm saying.

Super Aurora, isn't that from when he was clapping really loud because his mistress actually didn't do very well at singing...? If so, it probably shouldn't be used for clapping for people...

[Lazario]

Seems I don't get other people's humor, and they don't get mine. Or my attempts to cheer people up. Or what I really mean.

Well I sure knew you were joking.

[Chernabog_Rocks]

Which is why I tagged that last bit on the end of my post

Since that is how it's sounding right now.