Beauty and the Beast: Diamond Edition (October 5th!)

[Disney Duster]

Oh, Kubrick, if you looked at my other posts you'd see I'm very happy with the Blu-ray's darker look and will be getting that. However, you are right, it still doesn't give me the same amazing feel the older, original original colors gave me.

TO EVERYONE WHO SAYS WE CAN'T TELL WHAT THE ORIGINAL COLORS WERE: You know, we cannot know exactly, exactly, precisely, what the original colors were, but we still have a pretty good darn idea. The huge, huge difference between the VHS, Laserdisc, and clips and images from the theatrical release compared to the knew releases is laughable, there is obvious changing.

Okay, so maybe the VHS was too dark. Why would the LserDisc, which was meant to make the films look better, a step between VHS and DVD, look just as dark, though?

Why would they have trailers and clips on DVDs in the pristine digital format still have darker colors? It's the original colors, on DVD, so the TV settings and the VHS and LaserDisc quality has NOTHING to do with the changes! In fact, on the DVD they showed the original colors in bonus features! And they looked way different from the movie on THE SAME DVD!

And who the heck says you can't remember what you saw in the theaters, depending on your age, if you were old enough to remember it? I'm sorry, are you in everyone's brain and you absolutely can know what they see? No!

Finally, the Belle reflection. Look, in the reflection, she has two arms (or two shoulders) on the one side of her body! (the side with her hair on it):

[Matt]

The first screencap looks washed out...and there seems no lighting...I think the second one represents a more accurate detail of lighting.

Wait, I thought it was lit with candles, not pink flood lights?

ok so the animators/directors who came back and said this is how their film should be and you are saying it's not right??

Did they? I never knew they came out and officially confirmed that the alterations in the color scheme were intentionally made by the directors. Red chairs, purple night skies, pink snow...I don't buy it.

Even if they did do the tampering themselves, out of courtesy to the fans, they should make the unaltered version available. To push their new version as the only version reminds me of someone...

some proof that the 'come into the light' scene shouldn't have been too revealing of the beast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTZE45NN ... re=related

Yeah, I saw that Disney posted that 20/20 special a couple of weeks ago. I don't think that's even a supplement on the Blu-ray/DVD, is it? Probably trying to avoid any supplements that may still have hints of the original color scheme.

It's a room filled with burning candles, did you expect a cold look .

With a ceiling that high in a room that large (not to mention the rest of the castle), I doubt those candles would keep anyone warm

Thank you for having common sense jpanimation lol.

.......
Obviously, I was talking about the whole scene being lighter than it should be in the movie. If you see the screen caps above, you ALL can see for yourself! Yes, Belle's hair isn't red, it is a VERY, VERY light brown almost red.... and I was JOKING!

If you can't take the heat, get outa the kitchen lol!

This forum is getting very annoying! You can't say anything without getting attacked or getting your head bitten off if someone doesn’t like what you say! It's PUBLIC FORUM! If you do not like what I write down that doesn't give you fuel to personally attack me! There are ways to talk to people, LEARN THEM!!!!

There are LOTS of comments I do not like on this forum but that doesn't give me a reason to attack the person if their "opinion" is different from mine! It is simple, if you can't address me with respect or anyone in that matter, don't comment on what I am talking about that you do not like! It's just that simple! Read the forum rules again if you don't remember!

[Kyle]

Am I missing something? I don't see two shoulders, just a shoulder and part of her dress...

[akhenaten]

i dont get that some newer publicity stills show the spotlight in be our guest to be opaque but the screenshots from blu ray.com shows it to be just like the platinum edition.ive given up hope hoping for something that will never come.we have a saying in our culture 'tikus membaiki labu' which means 'like a rat fixing a pumpkin' which is exactly my sentiment of everything that goes on. with the new debacle of the reflection... i pity the beauty, and the beast inflicted upon it.

[KubrickFan]

TO EVERYONE WHO SAYS WE CAN'T TELL WHAT THE ORIGINAL COLORS WERE: You know, we cannot know exactly, exactly, precisely, what the original colors were, but we still have a pretty good darn idea. The huge, huge difference between the VHS, Laserdisc, and clips and images from the theatrical release compared to the knew releases is laughable, there is obvious changing.

Aren't you just contradicting yourself here? First you say that we cannot exactly know what the original colors were, and then you keep going on about how the original colors are altered.

Okay, so maybe the VHS was too dark. Why would the LserDisc, which was meant to make the films look better, a step between VHS and DVD, look just as dark, though?

Why would they have trailers and clips on DVDs in the pristine digital format still have darker colors? It's the original colors, on DVD, so the TV settings and the VHS and LaserDisc quality has NOTHING to do with the changes! In fact, on the DVD they showed the original colors in bonus features! And they looked way different from the movie on THE SAME DVD!

Because maybe the Laserdisc was based on the same master as the VHS, minus the cropping? And I've already said many, many times that I don't think the previous DVD is correct. It's much brighter and pushed towards red than the current Blu-ray is. Also, as some other comparisons have shown, the advertisements have looked slightly different in each case. One was darker than the other, so which one is the "original" one?

And who the heck says you can't remember what you saw in the theaters, depending on your age, if you were old enough to remember it? I'm sorry, are you in everyone's brain and you absolutely can know what they see? No!

The mind is a tricky thing. A car can change color, someone can look completely different, depending on who you ask. You sometimes hear stories from people who swear they've seen a scene in a movie, which was never there. Yet they continue to say that they're absolutely certain that they've seen it. It's the same thing.
Isn't it far more likely that what they think they saw in a movie theater, is in fact the VHS/Laserdisc, which they probably watched more times than they went to the theater? And even if they could remember it (highly unlikely, but anyway) who's to say the print that theater had was correct?

[Elladorine]

Am I missing something? I don't see two shoulders, just a shoulder and part of her dress...

You can see they combined both of Belle's shoulders on the far right. One reversed to put the hair on the correct side (#1), and one pasted over slightly smaller to . . . um, basically cheat (#2). It's an effect that looks nice on the surface, but isn't a "true" reflection (which would have to be completely redrawn). Most people wouldn't notice it unless they're examining it frame-by-frame like we are.

[UmbrellaFish]

Gosh, that Blu-Ray.com review was glowing! And the screencaps looked magnificent.

I've been fairly meh about this release for awhile now, but now I can't wait until I get it!

[Disney Duster]

Kubrick, my answer to everything you said can be summed up as thus: Those things might slightly alter the colors or our memories of the colors, but still not this much. We can still tell they changed them.

And of course you ignored the fact the original colors were in the bonus features of the same DVD the changed movie was on. Or the fact that the colors are different yet again on both the new DVD and Blu-ray proves that we were right, they are changing the colors.

[Prince Edward]

Kubrick, my answer to everything you said can be summed up as thus: Those things might slightly alter the colors or our memories of the colors, but still not this much. We can still tell they changed them.

And of course you ignored the fact the original colors were in the bonus features of the same DVD the changed movie was on. Or the fact that the colors are different yet again on both the new DVD and Blu-ray proves that we were right, they are changing the colors.

I don't think that the people that don't care about how the colors have been changed will ever recognize the simple fact that they have been changed. Or perhaps some like the changed colors and they want to "defend" the new colors in a way. Or perhaps the people that do not care about how the colors have been changed is getting annoyed by the people that points out what has happened, and they are denying the truth.

It's really simple as I see it: From my memory, from the VHS, the Laserdisc, the publicity photos from the original release and from bonusclips on the DVD-release and clips online, we can all see that the colors were different upon the original release. The whole movie had a darker feel to it. Shadows, haircolors, etc, everything was darker. And with the DVD, there came a obvious change. Everything turned brighter, things became more orange/red, shadows disappeared etc. That people don't care about this change is totally fine with me, but that someone can deny that there has been a change really beats me.

I want the original, darker colors back. The pictures I have seen from this new Blu-ray release does look very beautiful and a lot better than the DVD when it comes to the dark vs brighter colors, and I will be getting it. But I can't wait for the day when Disney releases the movie with dark colors, like we see them in the Imax BATB/Lilo & Stitch/The Princess and the Frog trailers. Then Disney could release a special edition with the brigher colors and Human Again, and a truly "original" edition of this movie.

[Escapay]

Not sure if you have PM abilities or not. If so, then the owner of an infected chicken may be able to help you.

My PM does work, but I don’t see the harm in posting it on the forums

It's one of the UD rules: don't discuss the distribution of pirated material ("currently" available or not) in the open forums. There was a bit of a do way back in 2003 when a member was openly trading DVD-R's of (then unavailable) Disney movies, and the rule was instated. So even though I was someone hedging on that rule by pointing you in the right direction (as I did for BK regarding Fantasia), I never outwardly said the how-to of doing it. It keeps to the UD rules.

Yeah, I saw that Disney posted that 20/20 special a couple of weeks ago. I don't think that's even a supplement on the Blu-ray/DVD, is it?

It's not, unfortunately. There's a "Good Morning, America" segment on youtube too that would have been worth an inclusion, especially with Paige O'Hara and Alan Menken singing "Beauty and the Beast" towards the end.

albert

[KubrickFan]

Kubrick, my answer to everything you said can be summed up as thus: Those things might slightly alter the colors or our memories of the colors, but still not this much. We can still tell they changed them.

And of course you ignored the fact the original colors were in the bonus features of the same DVD the changed movie was on. Or the fact that the colors are different yet again on both the new DVD and Blu-ray proves that we were right, they are changing the colors.

It's really convenient for you to simply gloss over everything I've said (and on which I'm right, by the way) to keep insisting whatever you say is right. Yes the DVD looks different from the VHS. I never disputed that. I also said in my previous post that BatB tends to look slightly different in every bit of footage that's available, so how exactly do you know which is the "original"? From memory? Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? 'Oh yeah, I saw the movie nineteen years ago and I remember exactly how it looked.' Sure, makes perfect sense.

[MJW]

With less than 2 weeks before the US release, I'm wondering which store everyone is planning to pick-up their copy from?

Do certain stores have better pricing than others?

Also, are any stores known for being difficult to deal with in terms of the $10 off DMR coupon? My biggest fear is that I get to the checkout line and the cashier can't accept the coupon for whatever reason.

[Disney Duster]

Kubrick, it's very easy for you to ignore the evidence and proof I talked about of the original colors being alongside the DVD in digital glory. The film wouldn't have to be restored at all, but simply taken from the CAPS files and put in the bonus features, so there really is no reason for things to look different on the same DVD. The things you mentioned (including the stuff about memory and the stuff about different prints) might make the film look slightly different, especially in printed things, but still not THAT drastically different, and it wouldn't at all when putting the CAPS files right to disk. I'm the one who's right, and you're just ignoring what I'm saying. Including, once more, the proof that since this new DVD and Blu-ray changed the colors yet again, when they could just put the CAPS files to disk and if they did that with the DVD the first time it wouldn't look different, so they obviously are changing the colors.

[KubrickFan]

Kubrick, it's very easy for you to ignore the evidence and proof I talked about of the original colors being alongside the DVD in digital glory. The film wouldn't have to be restored at all, but simply taken from the CAPS files and put in the bonus features, so there really is no reason for things to look different on the same DVD. The things you mentioned (including the stuff about memory and the stuff about different prints) might make the film look slightly different, especially in printed things, but still not THAT drastically different, and it wouldn't at all when putting the CAPS files right to disk. I'm the one who's right, and you're just ignoring what I'm saying. Including, once more, the proof that since this new DVD and Blu-ray changed the colors yet again, when they could just put the CAPS files to disk and if they did that with the DVD the first time it wouldn't look different, so they obviously are changing the colors.

You think they simply copy the CAPS files and put them onto a DVD or Blu-ray? A new master has to be in a lower resolution, different colorspace, you name it. A lot of things can change when that happens.
You didn't post any proof, apart from the old 'the Laserdisc came out earlier and therefore must be the original one'. If you're so against the new release, then don't buy it. Let Disney know by voting with your wallet.

[toonaspie]

With less than 2 weeks before the US release, I'm wondering which store everyone is planning to pick-up their copy from?

Do certain stores have better pricing than others?

Also, are any stores known for being difficult to deal with in terms of the $10 off DMR coupon? My biggest fear is that I get to the checkout line and the cashier can't accept the coupon for whatever reason.

I hear stories of people having problems with Best Buy.

If they're having a sale on the movie, chances are you may have problems with the coupon there.

[Disney Duster]

Kubrick, maybe it would change a little bit, still not that much. But it also still doesn't explain how the bonus features on the same DVD were completely differently colored and much darker, and the trailers and clips on countless other DVDs. Those would be from the same CAPS source too, and if the colors changed slightly between them, they wouldn't change that much without tampering. It is like night and day.

And why would I never, ever want to own Beauty and the Beast? Something is better than nothing. Disney would be hurting me more by me being one of the few who doesn't buy it because not as many people are keenly aware of the original colors.

[filmmusic]

A review of the Bluray with screenshots (press the screenshots tab):
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Beauty-an ... 59/#Review

The reviewer obviously hasn't seen AT ALL, the original version!

edit: Oops, sorry. I see the link has been posted before..

[Mr. Yagoobian]

Lawd, I'm so tired of the color-&-media-dog-&-pony show.

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular. Technically I should employ the gender-neutral third-person "one" rather than all the "you"s and "you're"s...

If you're convinced your beloved <insert legacy home media release here> is the most authentic to the theatrical presentation, be my guest. You've been watching your home media release for as long as 18 years (if you're old enough) and you've seen it exponentially more often than you ever saw it in its original theatrical run, but if you unquestionably believe you're capable of a clear objective mental reference of your theatrical experience from back when Bill Clinton was still the governor of Arkansas, be my guest. I'm still going to file that under "highly implausible."

You think your DVD looks too bright compared to your VHS? There's a reason for that. Reference black on digital video has a lower value than on analog. Gross oversimplification: you need to turn your brightness down. Somewhat less oversimplified: not only do you need a properly calibrated display to most accurately render image from a given medium, if you want to make a fair comparison between different media you need to properly calibrate for each individual medium you're viewing to get the most accurate reproduction of what each has to offer. That's only if you're interested in making a fair comparison, of course.

CAPS was a unique proprietary system that got dismantled when the studio decided to go all-CG; Musker said early this year that "even the software was gone." If you've got files that can be read by one workstation on the planet, I'm sure all it takes to get those onto a disc that can be read by millions of pieces of hardware is a shake of Tinkerbell's butt.

Different sources, different target media, and different tools & methods used to get the source content onto the target media---will produce different results. And the technology used at every stage in the game has progressed over the past 20 years. Anybody can throw up some screencaps and point fingers and complain. I'm not going to rule out that changes may have been made. But I am under the distinct impression that a lot of complaints are coming from people who seem to know less about media, mastering, compression, and replication than my own meager understanding. To insist that the differences in the screencaps are due to either incompetence or intentional malice on the part of the company when one cannot or will not acknowledge the host of other variables that may be in play...it's irresponsible and it's intellectually dishonest.

[Escapay]

Goob, you're my hero.



albert

[jpanimation]

^^It's a CAPS film, quite blaming the format, as we're all well aware of the differences between the formats. I watched my Tarzan VHS and then the HD presentation on Disney Channel back to back. Guess what? No difference in colors. No other CAPS films have drastic color changes between formats. Maybe slight brightness or contrast differences, I'll buy that, but no drastic colors changes. That isn't a format issue so quit acting like it is. I guess next you'll tell us Deems Taylor only sounds like Corey Burton because of the audio deficiencies of the VHS format. Facts are facts and alterations were made.

Do I remember what every frame looked like during it's original theatrical run? Of course not, but I remember general ideas of what it looked like and didn't look like. I never remembered all the pink and orange, ever. Belle's hair was brown, I'm sure of it. If the VHS colors differed drastically from the theatrical release (that I saw multiple times), I think I would've been as shocked at that time as I was when I first saw the Platinum Edition.

None of this format argument explains why the original press images and trailers for the Human Again sequence would reflect the VHS colors if they weren't the original ones. It also doesn't explain why the Inter-Stitch-Al, which had to dive back into the CAPS files for new animated section (as the Special Edition did for the Human Again sequence), would remain rather close to the original colors. Both new animated bits [Inter-Stitch-Al and Human Again) featured colors very close to the VHS.