What's your religion?

Any topic that doesn't fit elsewhere.

What religious faith do you follow?

Christianity
69
62%
Judaism
5
4%
Islam
4
4%
Buddhism
0
No votes
Hinduism
1
1%
Sikhism
1
1%
Indigenous faith/belief
0
No votes
Other (please explain)
7
6%
Non-religious
9
8%
Atheism
16
14%
 
Total votes: 112

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Black pearl
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Post by Black pearl »

To Waltmad
Goliath wrote: come follow a class on Christianity with me.


God can’t be put in a box or a classroom can he waltmad?
No matter how much you study Christianity, it won’t bring you any closer to God, when you accept him he lives inside you and you have a personal relationship with him and that is something you can’t learn in a classroom, you have to experience it. You freely give your life to him and that is what makes a true Christian isn’t it?
waltmad wrote: The link about the finding of Noah’s ark etc by archeologists scientists etc. http://www.arkdiscovery.com/DVD-RGT.htm
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm


I noticed you like to plug those links (good on you), just a suggestion, why don’t you add them to your signature? :)
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9. 2 Timothy ch2 v 19, “ Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-J4MIcmtQ
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Goliath
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Post by Goliath »

Black pearl wrote:God can’t be put in a box or a classroom can he waltmad?
No matter how much you study Christianity, it won’t bring you any closer to God,
That's not what we did or were trying to do. We didn't try to come any closer to God. What we did was study the actual historical sources about the origins of the Bible and the origins of Christianity. Because the Bible didn't fall out of the sky all of a sudden, and Christianity didn't magically appear overnight. I gave you lots of background information and links, but if you'd prefer to believe some crackpot who says he's found the arc of Noah, why should I even bother anymore?


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waltmad
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Post by waltmad »

@ Black pearl

Quote “The Bible was not authored by God. And that, my friend, is a historical fact.”

Goliath wrote:
God did not ‘author’ the Bible.

“If you can quote only *one* serious scholar who agrees that it's 'proof', I will believe you. But I'm going to save you time: you won't find one.”

Oh my. There you go B.P. just how does learning in a classroom teach what we know? In the book of Acts when the Holy spirit came down on them in the upper room, & they spoke in unknown languages, & fell about as if they were drunk (which they were not) & the same thing happens today, in undead churches, how do they explain that in a classroom? Or the other gifts, 1 Corinthians ch14 v 4 wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning, (one of mine) & interpretation of tongues.
God says he uses the simple things anyway, I wish I were even simpler than I already am so he would use me even more. He has without me making 1 phone call or anything, had me on several radio stations across the country, national papers, on bbc1 & ITV several times & channel 4 national TV, local papers, etc for his glory. & I might add, I did not receive 1 penny so it was not for money. (That’s 3 0f the 5 TV stations we have)

So why would I want to complicate & confuse a relationship with him, through some teacher in a class of the world who does not know him just to know about him?

Let me compare this, you are marrying your bride, who you got to know & love through your relationship with them, but someone says, no, you need to go to college & get a degree before you can have any experience or authority on this person. You are not qualified to either know them, or tell others of your experiences with them. & if you should, that means you are contradicting yourself all the time, talking hypocrisy & stuffing it down everyone’s throats. How would that make sense to you? Well that is all we get when we talk about the one we love isn’t it?
As I said, we are the church as the bible states. It also states the church is to be the bride of Christ. Which is what the very soon rapture is for. He is coming for his bride to go to the wedding feast, while Armageddon is on earth. We then return & so on as in previous posts.

What is wrong with thinking that, even if we were wrong? Why so much resistance. I know why, because deep down, their spirit knows we are right.
By the way, let me explain a couple of things to others. Church is actually inside of you, (your body is a temple) so it is wherever you are. & As I have said before, we are not religious, they cause wars etc, we are spiritual & are fighting a spiritual war, not an earthly one. We are not fighting flesh & blood, but powers & principalities of the air. & It is heating up, because as the Bible says, satan knows his time grows short at the end.


Linking all 3 quotes above, even if I could give 1 name that has a ton of credentials, that says “God wrote the torah & I can prove it”, you know it is the disbelievers job to disbelieve & come out with really scientific answers such as “no it isn’t” yet keep repeating things like, “not having to take the authority of 1 person behind a key board on the web” as proof for them. Then them answering “no it isn’t” is no better an answer, is it?

Thanks for the brilliant idea for my signature, for the links I keep plugging, you know, http://www.arkdiscovery.com/DVD-RGT.htm
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm

Oh & by the way one serious scholar, Chuck Missler, has a heap of credentials who says the Holy Ghosts fingerprints are all over the Torah. But even he will not impress the scoffers, how can it, that would go against their argument of winning with anything but the truth. His credentials are here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Missler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrMbNUqdzBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyPkc8LwiXg

Somewhere on youtube must be the video that I saw on tv of him in a seminar talking about how the holy spirit had to write the Torah, there being if I remember correctly, 50 nouns, 50 verbs, 50 pronouns and on and on and on till the chances of this happening are billions and billions to one. I think these are the right links, have not had time to check properly. Now watch how they find fault with this.
Some crackpots includes amongst others the Israeli and Turkish governments but why bother to check the facts when some one on a keyboard on the web is stating “facts” like “no it isn’t” for substantiation.

Nice to share with you, keep in touch here, wont you.
They've found it, they've found Noah's ark, & other stuff!
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/DVD-RGT.htm
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm
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waltmad
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Post by waltmad »

That is not the link i was thinking of, but it's about time someone else done some work. Who can find it? It is Chuck Missler talking on many subjects i believe, including i think, ufo explanation, the part i was thinking of was the 50 verbs, nouns etc. i have no net access at home, so this is very hard for me to do. Come on someone else speak up for God & find it. Thanks.
They've found it, they've found Noah's ark, & other stuff!
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/DVD-RGT.htm
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm
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Black pearl
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Post by Black pearl »

I could not find a video but I think this may be what your looking for, I just pasted all the writing from this link: http://www.bereanpublishers.com/Apologe ... issler.htm
I hope this helps, but everyone please keep looking for the video.

Evidence of Design:
Beloved Numerologist
by Chuck Missler
Table of Contents
IVAN PANIN
THE HEPTADIC STRUCTURE
VOCABULARY
AN EXAMPLE
GEMETRIA
OTHER IMPLICATIONS


Ivan Panin
The numerical structure of the Bible has been studied closely, being the subject of numerous volumes in the past.1 But none are more provocative than the works of Dr. Ivan Panin.2
Ivan Panin was born in Russia on December 12, 1855. Having participated in plots against the Czar at an early age, he was exiled and, after spending some years studying in Germany, he came to the United States and entered Harvard University. After graduation in 1882, he converted from agnosticism to Christianity.
In 1890 he discovered some of the phenomenal mathematical designs underlying both the Greek text of the New Testament and the Hebrew text of the Old Testament.
He was to devote over 50 years of his life painstakingly exploring the numerical structure of the Scriptures, generating over 43,000 detailed, hand-penned pages of analysis (and exhausting his health in the process). He went on to be with the Lord in his 87th year, on October 30, 1942.
The Heptadic Structure
The recurrence of the number seven - or an exact multiple of seven - is found throughout the Bible and is widely recognized. The Sabbath on the seventh day; the seven years of plenty and the seven years of famine in Egypt; the seven priests and seven trumpets marching around Jericho; the Sabbath Year of the land are well-known examples.
Also, Solomon's building the Temple for seven years, Naaman's washing in the river seven times, and the seven churches, seven lamp stands, seven seals, seven trumpets, seven bowls, seven stars, and so on in the Book of Revelation, all show the consistent use of the number seven.
But there turns out to be much more below the surface. Ivan Panin noted the amazing numerical properties of the Biblical texts – both the Greek of the New Testament and the Hebrew of the Old Testament. These are not only intriguing to discover, they also demonstrate an intricacy of design that testifies to a supernatural origin!
Vocabulary
One of the simplest – and most provocative – aspects of the Biblical text is the vocabulary used. The number of vocabulary words in a passage is normally different from the total number of words in a passage. Some words are repeated. It is easy, for example, to use a vocabulary of 500 words to write an essay of 4,000 words.
An Example
The first 17 verses of the Gospel of Matthew are a logical unit, or section, which deals with a single principal subject: the genealogy of Christ. It contains 72 Greek vocabulary words in these initial 17 verses. (The verse divisions are man's allocations for convenience, added in the 13th century.)
The number of words that are nouns is exactly 56, or 7 x 8.
The Greek word "the" occurs most frequently in the passage: exactly 56 times, or 7 x 8. Also, the number of different forms in which the article "the" occurs is exactly 7.
There are two main sections in the passage: verse 1-11, and 12-17. In the first main section, the number of Greek vocabulary words used is 49, or 7 x 7.
Why not 48, or 50?
Of these 49 words, the number of those beginning with a vowel is 28, or 7 x 4. The number of words beginning with a consonant is 21, or 7 x 3.
The total numbers of letters in these 49 words is 266, or 7 x 38 - exactly! The number of vowels among these 266 letters is 140, or 7 x 20. The number of consonants is 126, or 7 x 18 - exactly.
Of the 49 words, the number of words that occur more than once is 35, or 7 x 5. The number of words occurring only once is 14, or 7 x 2. The number of words that occur in only one form is exactly 42, or 7 x 6. The number of words appearing in more than one form is also 7.
The number of the 49 Greek vocabulary words that are nouns is 42, or 7 x 6. The number of words that are not nouns is 7. Of the nouns, 35 are proper names, or exactly 7 x 5. These 35 names are used 63 times, or 7 x 9. The number of male names is exactly 28, or 7 x 4. These male names occur 56 times or 7 x 8. The number which are not male names is 7.
Three women are mentioned - Tamar, Rahab, and Ruth. The number of Greek letters in these three names is 14, 7 x 2.
The number of compound nouns is 7. The number of Greek letters in these 7 nouns is 49, or 7 x 7.
Only one city is named in this passage, Babylon, which in Greek contains exactly 7 letters.
And on it goes. To get an indication of just how unique these properties are, try the example in the inset.
Gemetria
There are even more features in the numerical structure of the words themselves. As you may know, both Hebrew and Greek use the letters of the alphabet for numerical values. Therefore, any specific word – in either Hebrew or Greek – has a numerical value of its own by adding up the values of the letters in that particular word. The study of the numerical values of words is called gemetria.
The 72 vocabulary words add up to a gemetrical value of 42,364, or 7 x 6,052. Exactly. If one Greek letter were changed, this would not happen.
The 72 words appear in 90 forms - some appear in more than one form. The numeric value of the 90 forms is 54,075, or 7 x 7,725. Exactly.
We will defer other examples of gemetrical properties of the Biblical text for subsequent articles, but it becomes immediately obvious that hidden below the surface are aspects of design that cannot be accidental or just coincidence. Remember, the rabbis say that "coincidence" is not a kosher word!
Other Implications
There are words in the passage just described that occur nowhere else in the New Testament. They occur 42 times (7 x 6) and have 126 letters (7 x 18). How was this organized?
Even if Matthew contrived this characteristic into his Gospel, how could he have known that these specific words - whose sole characteristic is that they are found nowhere else in the New Testament - were not going to be used by the other writers? Unless we assume the absurd hypothesis that he had an agreement with them, he must have had the rest of the New Testament before him when he wrote his book. The Gospel of Matthew, then, must have been written last.
It so happens, however, that the Gospel of Mark exhibits the same phenomenon. It can be demonstrated that it would have had to be written "last." The same phenomenon is found in Luke. And in John, James, Peter, Jude and Paul. Each would have had to write after the other in order to contrive the vocabulary frequencies! You can demonstrate that each of the New Testament books had to have been "written last."
There is no human explanation for this incredible and precise structure. It has all been supernaturally designed. We simply gasp, sit back, and behold the skilful handiwork of the God who keeps His promises.
And we are indebted to the painstaking examinations and lifetime commitment of Dr. Ivan Panin for uncovering these amazing insights.
Notes:
1. McCormack, R., "The Heptadic Structure of Scripture," Marshall Brothers Ltd., London, 1923; E.W. Bullinger, Numbers of the Scriptures; F.W. Grant, The Numerical Bible (7 vols.); Browne, Ordo Saeculoreium, et al.
2. Ivan Panin (various works), "Bible Numerics," P.O. Box 206, Waubaushene, Ontario, L0K 2C0.
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9. 2 Timothy ch2 v 19, “ Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-J4MIcmtQ
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Post by Goliath »

And so any form of intelligent, open-minded discussion tragically ends...
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waltmad
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Post by waltmad »

Thanks B.P. that is exactly the same kind of stuff, but it was about the Torah (1st 5 books of the bible) & as you say, on video. Of course this is just as valuable in showing who had a hand in writing the New Testament too, & beats “no he didn’t” for a scientific answer.
I hope it gives S.A something to think about too, concerning its inconsistencies. If it were not written word for word as it was, it would not work.
There are so many things like this, the Holy Spirit reveals, to the believer who serves him & is chosen, & sometimes through them, to the unbeliever, to reveal his existence that they may believe. Unfortunately, he could give them a slap in the face & some would still say, prove it was him. They are the ones who desperately try to disprove anything we say, or try to pull us down because making us wrong, in their eyes, makes them right & then they temporarily need not worry about their eternal future. Simplified, I suppose like an ostrich that sticks its head in the sand.
Of course we are to be rewarded for this in Heaven, see previous posts.

Isn’t it great, how God opens up these opportunities to inform those that reject, are unaware & those that refuse him, that they may allow him to unharden their hearts, like Saul/ Goliath, because he loves them & wants them in his presence for eternity.

Perhaps you could briefly tell how complicated & expensive salvation is for us, as there are those that may want to know, if they don’t they can skip it can’t they. Just what must they do to be guaranteed a home in Heaven according to the Bible. For instance will good deeds get them there? Sorry to put work in your lap, but I know you wont mind, will you.
They've found it, they've found Noah's ark, & other stuff!
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/DVD-RGT.htm
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm
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Post by ajmrowland »

Goliath wrote:And so any form of intelligent, open-minded discussion tragically ends...
The masses are literally at war with intelligence.
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waltmad
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Post by waltmad »

open-minded!? rotfl :clap:
They've found it, they've found Noah's ark, & other stuff!
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/DVD-RGT.htm
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm
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Black pearl
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Post by Black pearl »

Waltmad wrote: Perhaps you could briefly tell how complicated & expensive salvation is for us, as there are those that may want to know,
Certainly.
Salvation is very simple & free; you must trust in Jesus and give your life to him.
Romans 10:9 “If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

You have to repent and turn from your sins, that means be sorry for the sins you have done and don’t continue doing them anymore.
2 Timothy ch2 v 19, “ Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness”.

You could pray something like this, and mean it.
“Dear Jesus I know I am a sinner and I am sorry for my sins. I believe you died on the cross to pay for my sin and raised three days later. I give my life to you, please come into my heart and be Lord and saviour of my life.”

Once you are saved you should start praying (talking to God as you would a friend, you can do that anywhere, not just in church) and reading the bible, and you will start growing in your faith and move forwards in your walk with God.

Once you are saved you are no longer of the world but are of God, don’t be alarmed if the world starts hating, ridiculing or persecuting you, don’t let this discourage you, this is normal and is forewarned about in the bible, Mathew ch 5 v 11-12. “Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, & persecute you, & shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, & be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you”.

You will also find that things of the world that appealed to you before, no longer will, for example things such as the programs you watch, your friends, clubs etc. This is the Holy Spirit working inside you and removing things that are not of God & replacing them with much better things. You need to empty a cup to refill it, again don’t be alarmed, this is a good thing.
Waltmad wrote: For instance will good deeds get them there?
The bible says in Isaiah ch 64 v 6, “All of us have become like one who is unclean, all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
And, John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me”.

So no, good deeds won’t get you into Heaven, and they won’t redeem you from your sin, salvation through Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved and be guaranteed a place in Heaven.

Waltmad and I have covered this and other stuff that may be helpful in previous posts.
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9. 2 Timothy ch2 v 19, “ Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-J4MIcmtQ
Lazario

Post by Lazario »

Goliath wrote:And so any form of intelligent, open-minded discussion tragically ends...
G, ya don't have to keep saying it. We can all see this thing is being propelled by a couple of trolls. Who won't even post on any other topic and take the attitude of martyrdom in defense of that.
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Post by waltmad »

And you don't have to keep repeating yourself. At least we don’t keep getting suspended or banned for breaking rules such as respect for others. Oh forbid we talk about God in a thread on religion. Your comments are read by about 100 people per day, as are ours. You must be so proud that we are so attentative to your immense needs. I understand how you will not give up until you have shut this thread. Explain to the 100 people why you don't want us to have freedom of speech and this time don't evade my question. You use your big mouth to harass people all the time, try using it to give me and the 100 an answer that we find satisfactory.
They've found it, they've found Noah's ark, & other stuff!
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/DVD-RGT.htm
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/noahsark.htm
Lazario

Post by Lazario »

You're a regular laugh riot, wmd. You can't post anything referring to me without some kind of dig in there. And you're running out of steam. I haven't been banned or suspended in almost 2 years. So, that's right. I keep getting banned and suspended all the time. Yet, you've had the pomposity to lecture me on posting replies to you when you know... it takes two to tango. You're the one keeping this going. That's because... you know I am right. You are a troll. By all definitions. And despite the piousness of your holier-than-thou position... nobody on this board wants to be educated by a machine. They only want to talk to real people. So, go mission where they want someone like you. Someplace where they don't care about art and see everything as being one color, one shape, one mind.

My reputation on this board is in good standing. So, keep trying to chip away at it. I would be the first one to admit when you've gotten a good one in. But, you're shadowboxing. You've hit nothing. However, in one thread alone... 4 members have seen what you are. And named it.
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Post by Disney Duster »

I think this is a good time for me to make a public apology about my "dumbing down" comments.

I should have only said "simplified"and "not thought all the way through", "not considered other options", "only thinking one way was right". And the reason is obviously for comedic effect, but in comedy, it is hard to get detailed and complicated and discussive (I think I made that up, oh well).

And so, I am sorry, to the people involved, you know who you two are, forgive me.
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Post by Lazario »

Well, people usually sit down for stand up comedy to just laugh. But in Mr. Carlin's case, he just happened to be very intelligent and make a lot of highly on-the-mark observations about the way people use religion against the rest of humanity. I could say it's sad that you didn't take anything good from what he said, but honestly- nobody has time to deal with your problems too. If you don't like what he said, there's no rule saying you have to take it personally. How quickly Christians forget that they have more protection than almost anyone else in this country. The worst thing that happens to Christians in America is some people say they want to get rid of the saying "Christmas" or take "God" out of the pledge of allegiance. Oh my! How fast can we form a relief organization to mend these broken souls? You poor things... Meanwhile, let's look at how their dogged "The Bible says gay people are evil and perverts" has in-fact lead to the beatings, killings, and suicides of untold thousands of gay people in America. You don't hear Christians as a group giving a damn about that.

Point being- there is no reason whatsoever to see Christians as victims. They're not. They're usually self-righteous jerks trying to use their religion to justify their fear and opinions that everyone who aren't like them are inferior to them. Where are the public Christian spokespeople trying to control the damage the extremists and the anti-gay activists keep doing to their religion? I wonder why they're so hard to find... It's because, if they exist- they only talk to their own kind. Fine time to pick to use religion for being humble. This is why I've always believed religion is meant to be kept private. Just because they pray for other people does not mean everyone needs to hear their preaching. You do that, then you come off as a cheap attention whore.
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Post by Super Aurora »

One thing I'd like to point out though is that I wouldn't consider the "good" Christians not trying to solve the conflict the radicals and anti-gays are doing but the problem is that the radicals and anti-gays are much much more louder and vocal and give more "aggression" than the normal Christians do. This, in addition to the media who also manipulate this, give off the tendency that majority of Christians are wacky radicals. It's the same deal with the Islam fiasco. A lot of Muslims aren't those radicals terrorist or side with them that many ignorant Americans believe to be. Which again is thanks to media manipulation.
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Post by Disney Duster »

Yes, what Super Aurora said.

Also, yea, Christians do get persecuted and have problems. Since the very days when Christians were killed for being Christian. Martyrdom and all that. If we let anyone know we even are Christian, we can get jerked for it. People just have to know you are religious to attack it. It doesn't matter how vocal we are about it, because I have heard of religions that aren't that vocal still getting slack.

It's because faith and religion just are big issues, ones people are passionate about, and people also make fun of other people for anything, but especially this issue.

I heard that the government made Christmas a secular holiday. I am not complaining about other things, but this one really is wrong, and yes, terrible. It would be the same as taking anyone else's religious holiday and making it nonreligious. But I don't think the government really did that, I don't think it's actually true.
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Re: Religion

Post by Super Aurora »

Disney Duster wrote: Also, yea, Christians do get persecuted and have problems. Since the very days when Christians were killed for being Christian. Martyrdom and all that. If we let anyone know we even are Christian, we can get jerked for it. People just have to know you are religious to attack it. It doesn't matter how vocal we are about it, because I have heard of religions that aren't that vocal still getting slack.
Back in the Roman times, of course they did get persecuted. Even at times during 1600 to 1800 when many missionaries try to convert people in other parts of the world such as China or Indonesian islands. But them trying change someone else religion and belief and it turned people off and piss them off. This one of the notions that people have beefed with. Whether it's Christian doing for good intentions or not, if give off a very bad impression.

The other reason many people who follow any of the Abraham religions get a bad rep, is that when someone ask question or question something for their religion that may seem contradictory or whatever, people get uptight, sensitive, and on defense over it and thinking the person asking questions are attacking them.
Disney Duster wrote:I heard that the government made Christmas a secular holiday. I am not complaining about other things, but this one really is wrong, and yes, terrible. It would be the same as taking anyone else's religious holiday and making it nonreligious. But I don't think the government really did that, I don't think it's actually true.
I never heard this, but if it is the case, I'd imagine it's mostly due to commercial aspect of Christmas (santa, christmas tree, snowman etc), which is mainly what people think of when they think of Christmas.
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Post by Goliath »

@ Disney Duster: Thanks for your apologies. It takes a big person to come out and write them out in public, like you did. Most people insult others in public, then only apologize in private. I'm glad you did it in public.

If you want to talk about persecution, you also have to talk about persecution done *by* Christians. The Crusades come to mind, and the Spanish Inquisition. We, in The Netherlands, owe our independence to William of Orange, who led the Dutch resistence to king Philip II of Spain. After the Reformation, a large part of the Dutch people wanted to be Protestants, whereas Philip, who ruled over our country, was a very orthodox Roman Catholic, and he strated to persecute all Protestants in his kingdom. They were burned at the stakes. To get ourselves our freedom of religion, we fought an 80 year war with Spain. Only after that was over, the Dutch were free to believe what they wanted.

I don't want to single out Christianity. In many Middle Eastern countries, there's no freedom of religion. There are large minorities of Christians in some countries (Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon), but they often don't have the same rights as muslims. In most of those countries, islam is the state's religion and there is no seperation of church and state. In Israel, jews have more rights than non-jews. Saw a report the other day on the city of Hebron, where some streets are only allowed to be used by jews, not by arabs. That's modern-day Apartheid.

I do get a little sad, reading Waltmad's and Blackpearl's posts. It's hard to read and understand the Bible. Not because I'm stupid and have trouble reading, but because it's hard to interpret the text. Many of the texts can be interpreted in many different ways, depending how you read them. Then there's the issue of the Apocrypha, the books that were once part of the Bible, but were later removed by some Church leaders in arbitrary decisions. Catholics use a different set of Bible books than Protestants. And then you have to take into account the historic context in which the books were written, and how many different translations have deformed the original messages over time. How people can pretend the Bible is easy to understand, is beyond me. I believe it's arrogance that makes them say that.

Oh, I could learn the Bible by heart and quote from it at any given moment. I could do that. But what would I have *learned* from it? How much richness and background and context would I have missed?

@ Lazario: Thanks for your post. I have always believed George Carlin was much more than 'just a comedian'. He didn't only talk very eloquently about religion, but about society as a whole as well, about democracy, about politics, about people in general with all their quirks and annoying sides, about war and peace, and he talked a lot about language and how it forms us and the world around us and the way we see the world. He truly was a gifted and keen observer. And the last thing he did, was 'simplifying' anything.
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Religion

Post by Disney Duster »

Super Aurora, yes, people get mad when you try to tell them things like that. But it's all about the belief of saving people, and also being good to your God, telling others about him instead of never speaking of him ever, just shutting up like you're ashamed. Like I said, when you believe something, you really believe that it's true, and that it should be shared.

You don't have to keep telling me people get annoyed and angry. I know religious people take it too far sometimes. I'm just saying why we do it, and why will still do it, at all.

Goliath, well, thank you. For that first thing.
Goliath wrote:If you want to talk about persecution, you also have to talk about persecution done *by* Christians.
No you don't *have* to, but you did anyway...

For what you said on the Bible...I think some people believe that how they understand the Bible, how they (immediately?) get it, what it means to them, is what they should follow. And I get that a lot.

That is one way. I already talked about the other ways to interpret the Bible, like if it doesn't fit with what you really believe in and you don't think that can be right, you try to find what is or does, like the golden rule, or how it does, like what it could be trying to say. As I already said.

And as for the "simplifying" thing...well, simplicity is never necessarily a bad thing, just, when discussing certain things, you sometimes have to go into all the complications.
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