Titles from Wave 4 of Disney Treasures confirmed

[Paka]

I'm also wondering what exactly the True-Life Adventures set is gonna have on it...

We were discussing this recently:

http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

-Lon

Oh, I know about all the TLA features and featurettes, Lon (in fact I linked mvealf's Geocities page in this thread), I'm just curious as to which of those original 13 they're gonna put on the WDT. I can see 'em mixing the features with the shorts, and perhaps releasing two volumes, but heck - I'm just speculating.

And maybe it's just my penchant for animals and "silent comedy," but I absolutely adore many of Pluto's cartoons. I think one can get the best and most universal comedy out of a character that does not speak, and animation is especially useful for physical comedy. The dozen or so Pluto cartoons I watched as a kid were smart, and very funny. In fact, I'd only like to get the MMBW2 set for completist's sake, because I really don't find Mickey that engaging. He may be the Disney symbol, but his films and shorts just ain't that funny to me.

[Eeyore]

Why so gloomy?

You called?

I think the lack of excitement is that most folks don't know much about what these discs are about. They didn't watch MMC as a kid, aren't sure what True Life Adventures are, Pluto is less popular than Mickey & Donald, etc.

Of the four, I'll probably just be getting Mickey. Even though I'm an old fart, I never saw MMC or TLA as a kid.

[Prince Phillip]

Not-Quite-as-Obvious Possibilities:
Alice Comedies
Oswald the Lucky Rabbit
Early Stuff (Lafflets, Laugh-O-grams, Song-o-Reels)

I posted this in another thread a while ago, but I'll say it again here. Recently I was corresponding with Dave Smith (famed Disney Archivist) regarding his advice on pursuing a Disney career. He was kind enough to give me some pointers, and I also asked him about these shorts, if they will ever be released to the public. Here is his reply:

Keith:

The problem with the silent films is that Disney does not own the rights to them. Many of the Alice Comedies were copyrighted by various entities, eventually ending up with RKO. Universal has the copyright to the Oswalds.

Dave

So while it seems to be a possibility that these shorts will be released, I doubt if Disney would feel there is enough of a demand to do whatever is necessary to secure the rights to these films for public release. (I believe that certain shorts from this period are available through these other companies, on various cartoon collections and such)

It seems though that Disney, has been informing people of the Oswald shorts and the Alice Comedies, as part of their important history, such info can be found on their Disney Store Training tapes, as well as many of the Animated Classics DVD's, which begs the question, why constently mention them, if they never plan on releasing them. Now more than ever, it seems Disney may try to really appease fans with great DVD releases, and perhaps really go back to their roots. The company has been going through alot of turmoil lately as I'm sure I really don't even have to mention, and it seems that this might result in a lot of big things happening, like getting Song of the South on DVD, finally, and perhaps the Oswald and Alice Shorts, that can be found/recovered...

All this complaining is rather odd. Be happy you are getting 4 more Treasures sets. Good grief.

Why so gloomy?

You called?

I think the lack of excitement is that most folks don't know much about what these discs are about. They didn't watch MMC as a kid, aren't sure what True Life Adventures are, Pluto is less popular than Mickey & Donald, etc.

Of the four, I'll probably just be getting Mickey. Even though I'm an old fart, I never saw MMC or TLA as a kid.

I kind of grouped up the 2 quotes cause their both similar, so I figured I adress both of them...

I for one, plan, now that I have all 7 treasures from the first 2 waves and will have all 4 treasures from wave 3 on Tuesaday, to collect all the treasures, there is just no reason not to at this point. And I want treasures that are going to engage me, and make me feel good about the money I'm spending.

I'm not big on nature shows, and I found the Grand Canyon short before Sleeping Beauty agonizingly boring, and while this is not a "true life adventure", I've heard it compared to them. Who knows, this may wind up being very interesting, but it is not something I'm really looking forward to when I look at the other releases...

I'm not sure what to think about the MMC set, but it seems a lot of people aren't too thrilled about it.

Basically it just seems we are getting a lot of treasures this next wave that do not spark my interest and it seems that it isn't just me that thinks so. Not when there are so many other enticing treasures that we are going to have to wait a while for...




[/quote]

[Prince Phillip]

Not-Quite-as-Obvious Possibilities:
Alice Comedies
Oswald the Lucky Rabbit
Early Stuff (Lafflets, Laugh-O-grams, Song-o-Reels)

I posted this in another thread a while ago, but I'll say it again here. Recently I was corresponding with Dave Smith (famed Disney Archivist) regarding his advice on pursuing a Disney career. He was kind enough to give me some pointers, and I also asked him about these shorts, if they will ever be released to the public. Here is his reply:

Keith:

The problem with the silent films is that Disney does not own the rights to them. Many of the Alice Comedies were copyrighted by various entities, eventually ending up with RKO. Universal has the copyright to the Oswalds.

Dave

So while it seems to be a possibility that these shorts will be released, I doubt if Disney would feel there is enough of a demand to do whatever is necessary to secure the rights to these films for public release. (I believe that certain shorts from this period are available through these other companies, on various cartoon collections and such)

It seems though that Disney, has been informing people of the Oswald shorts and the Alice Comedies, as part of their important history, such info can be found on their Disney Store Training tapes, as well as many of the Animated Classics DVD's, which begs the question, why constently mention them, if they never plan on releasing them. Now more than ever, it seems Disney may try to really appease fans with great DVD releases, and perhaps really go back to their roots. The company has been going through alot of turmoil lately as I'm sure I really don't even have to mention, and it seems that this might result in a lot of big things happening, like getting Song of the South on DVD, finally, and perhaps the Oswald and Alice Shorts, that can be found/recovered...

All this complaining is rather odd. Be happy you are getting 4 more Treasures sets. Good grief.

Why so gloomy?

You called?

I think the lack of excitement is that most folks don't know much about what these discs are about. They didn't watch MMC as a kid, aren't sure what True Life Adventures are, Pluto is less popular than Mickey & Donald, etc.

Of the four, I'll probably just be getting Mickey. Even though I'm an old fart, I never saw MMC or TLA as a kid.

I kind of grouped up the 2 quotes cause their both similar, so I figured I adress both of them...

I for one, plan, now that I have all 7 treasures from the first 2 waves and will have all 4 treasures from wave 3 on Tuesaday, to collect all the treasures, there is just no reason not to at this point. And I want treasures that are going to engage me, and make me feel good about the money I'm spending.

I'm not big on nature shows, and I found the Grand Canyon short before Sleeping Beauty agonizingly boring, and while this is not a "true life adventure", I've heard it compared to them. Who knows, this may wind up being very interesting, but it is not something I'm really looking forward to when I look at the other releases...

I'm not sure what to think about the MMC set, but it seems a lot of people aren't too thrilled about it.

Basically it just seems we are getting a lot of treasures this next wave that do not spark my interest and it seems that it isn't just me that thinks so. Not when there are so many other enticing treasures that we are going to have to wait a while for...




[/quote]

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Hello, gloomy ones

About MMC, I'm not only way too young to have watched it - I'm even in the wrong part of the world. But I may say that I'm quite well read on the history of the works of Walt Disney, so I tend to find most such "historic" material interesting. Everyone is not going to appreciate it, though, and I don't have a problem with that. However, based on my impression of the Walt Disney Treasures DVDs, I'd say everyone who is interested in the Treasures should acknowledge that there is significant material and much good work put into every single one of these sets. Even if some of the material may not be very exciting (MMC could belong here - I admit I haven't seen anything but a few glimpses), everything seems to have its place in a bigger picture and could be appreciated for that.

Prince Phillip: About Disney's silent pre-Mickey works, the problem seems to be that Disney does not have legal ownership to them, so we should probably look elsewhere for DVDs of these. However, it's certainly not being hidden that they are part of early Disney history and a couple have also been included in extra materials here and there.

[Little Red Henski]

Prince Phillip: About Disney's silent pre-Mickey works, the problem seems to be that Disney does not have legal ownership to them, so we should probably look elsewhere for DVDs of these. However, it's certainly not being hidden that they are part of early Disney history and a couple have also been included in extra materials here and there.

All of Walt's silent film are in the public domain. Some of them have been already been released on DVD by plublic domain companies. They can't put the character Oswald the Lucky Rabbit on the cover of a treasure set though.

[AwallaceUNC]

Wow, exactly which works are and are not in public domain? That's interesting.

Some footage from the Laugh-O-Grams and Alice Comedies are on Walt: The Man Behind The Myth, as well as some other releases (as I'm sure you know). Therefore, even if Disney doesn't have full rights, they must know where to get them, and it's bound to have crossed their minds. I'm sure they could aquire it for relatively low costs, and it's in the company's best interest to get them. So maybe it will happen some day, and we'll get our hands on them then.

As for the True Life Adventures, as much I'd like to think I'd be able to, I'm not sure I could make it through more than one of these. I can't say that for sure, but I'm with Prince Phillip in that the Grand Canyon thing on the SB DVD nearly put me to sleep. I definitely want to own them, though, just to own them (and will eventually do so). Maybe I'll watch like 2 a year, unless they actually turn out to be entertaining. I've never seen one, but they don't seem like they'd be my cup of tea (not that I have a cup of tea, really, because I don't like tea at all).

-Aaron

[rodneyf]

True Life Adventures are narrated stories about wildlife. They're not nearly as boring as the Grand Canyon sequence in Sleeping Beauty's DVD. They're engaging, entertaining, and educational documentaries about animals. Now, if you don't like animals or nature, than that's a different stories. They are entertaining though.

[Little Red Henski]

Wow, exactly which works are and are not in public domain? That's interesting.

Some footage from the Laugh-O-Grams and Alice Comedies are on Walt: The Man Behind The Myth, as well as some other releases (as I'm sure you know). Therefore, even if Disney doesn't have full rights, they must know where to get them, and it's bound to have crossed their minds. I'm sure they could aquire it for relatively low costs, and it's in the company's best interest to get them. So maybe it will happen some day, and we'll get our hands on them then.

-Aaron

Disney used to broadcast the Alice Comedies on the Disney Channel. So they have prints to at least some of the Alice Comedies. I don't think the Disney channel has ever aired a Oswald cartoon though.

[feedmelinguini]

Wow, exactly which works are and are not in public domain?

That is a good question. Any works in public domain may be released by ANYBODY, even if someone else beats them to it. If the silent films are in the public domain, Disney may not release them unless they feel there is high demand, since other companies could release them as well. The issue gets cloudy when it comes to restoration. Disney may assert ownership of the "remastering" of PD shorts, not allowing others to release "remastered" shorts (and making the Disney product the best available). Other companies, however, could do this as well, rendering this move useless.

-Lon

[feedmelinguini]

Therefore, even if Disney doesn't have full rights, they must know where to get them, and it's bound to have crossed their minds. I'm sure they could aquire it for relatively low costs, and it's in the company's best interest to get them. So maybe it will happen some day, and we'll get our hands on them then.

Disney actually owns prints of many of the silent titles. Other libraries own other combinations of prints. In the book Walt in Wonderland: The Silent Films of Walt Disney, there is a then-current list of what archives own which prints. Occasionally, some others turn up. In all, prints of a majority of these films are owned by SOMEONE. In the case of Oswald, Disney lost the rights to these. Unless they have fallen into the public domain, they cannot release these without working out a deal with Universal. Since Universal produced the series after Disney was removed, it is possible (not probable) that Universal and Disney could work out a co-release of all the shorts or that some agreement could be reached. I don't suspect that either company is chomping on the bit to do so.

-Lon

[feedmelinguini]

As for the True Life Adventures, as much I'd like to think I'd be able to, I'm not sure I could make it through more than one of these. I can't say that for sure, but I'm with Prince Phillip in that the Grand Canyon thing on the SB DVD nearly put me to sleep. I definitely want to own them, though, just to own them (and will eventually do so). Maybe I'll watch like 2 a year, unless they actually turn out to be entertaining. I've never seen one, but they don't seem like they'd be my cup of tea (not that I have a cup of tea, really, because I don't like tea at all).

-Aaron

Wow! I just quoted Aaron three times in a row. Soon, I'll have to pay royalties....

Aaron, give the TLAs a chance. They really are entertaining and, to me, some of the finest work the studio has put out. Grand Canyon was NOT done in the style of the TLAs. It was a photographic interpretation of Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite. If it put you to sleep, you just may not be a fan of his music. The TLAs are among the first examples of the nature documentary. Despite his taking liberties with some of the material, Disney presented six films and seven featurettes that are remarkably entertaining and informative. I love them enough to have subscribed to the Disney Channel (back when they played Disney stuff!) just to record the seven featurettes. The six feature films were all released on VHS, so I was able to track them down. Secrets of Life alone is enough to get a doubter hooked.

-Lon

[Trojan Mouse]

Just so everyone knows, the MMC set will only include the first five episodes (first week), however, there will be a ton of very special content included in the set. It should be something pretty special, even if you were not a huge fan of the show.

As for Wave 5, as of right now, the only two sets that have made any progress so far are the Oddity collection previously discussed as a possibility for Wave 4 and . . . Song of the South!! There are very serious discussions taking place in this direction. While Silly Symphony II would be logical, as would another Donald set, no discussions have taken place yet.

I'll keep you posted as I learn more.

[Luke]

Awesome news, Trojan Mouse. Thank you for the scoop!

[AwallaceUNC]

Wow! So much to respond to!

Wow! I just quoted Aaron three times in a row. Soon, I'll have to pay royalties....

Yes, yes you will. For now on, I demand that $0.25 be transferred to my account via PayPal each and every time my name and/or posts are used or referred to. You quoted me three times and used my name twice, that's $1.25!

Aaron, give the TLAs a chance. They really are entertaining and, to me, some of the finest work the studio has put out. Grand Canyon was NOT done in the style of the TLAs. It was a photographic interpretation of Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite. If it put you to sleep, you just may not be a fan of his music. The TLAs are among the first examples of the nature documentary. Despite his taking liberties with some of the material, Disney presented six films and seven featurettes that are remarkably entertaining and informative. I love them enough to have subscribed to the Disney Channel (back when they played Disney stuff!) just to record the seven featurettes. The six feature films were all released on VHS, so I was able to track them down. Secrets of Life alone is enough to get a doubter hooked.

True Life Adventures are narrated stories about wildlife. They're not nearly as boring as the Grand Canyon sequence in Sleeping Beauty's DVD. They're engaging, entertaining, and educational documentaries about animals. Now, if you don't like animals or nature, than that's a different stories. They are entertaining though.

Thanks to both of you for these reassurances. I'm pleased to hear this, as I want to like them, lol. As long as they aren't like straight-up National Geographic, then I can probably handle them, even though nature/animals aren't my thing. I figured Walt would make anything entertaining, anyways.

Lon & Henski, thanks for your explanations. I agree with you that a Universal/Disney joint venture with the Oswald series will probably never happen. Maybe somewhere down the road, Disney will make a purchase, but until then, it's doubftul.

Lon, your scenario of Disney remastering the shorts and then claiming the rights to them is interesting, indeed! It even sounds like something Disney would do, and it's bound to be worth it as a Treasures set. I wouldn't think other distributors would be as eager to release them, anyways, as they don't hold much significance outside the Disney name. Then again, collectors will take what they can get. I say: Disney, get on the ball and do it!

Trojan Mouse- thanks, that's a great scoop! I am a bit disappointed that only 5 MMC episodes will make it on to the disc, but then again, I 'spose it can't have them all. I really want SOTS on DVD, so I'll take what we can get, but it's a feature film and a Disney classic- not a treasure (in terms of shorts or TV shows)! I think it deserves its own 2 disc release, just like any other popular Disney live-action feature would get.

-Aaron

[jebsdad]

Just so everyone knows, the MMC set will only include the first five episodes (first week), however, there will be a ton of very special content included in the set. It should be something pretty special, even if you were not a huge fan of the show.

As for Wave 5, as of right now, the only two sets that have made any progress so far are the Oddity collection previously discussed as a possibility for Wave 4 and . . . Song of the South!! There are very serious discussions taking place in this direction. While Silly Symphony II would be logical, as would another Donald set, no discussions have taken place yet.

I'll keep you posted as I learn more.

Is that the FIRST WEEK of the ORIGINAL ONE-HOUR shows? I would be interested in those. I have only seen the later half-hour shows - many of which (as I understand it) were put together from parts of the original one-hour shows.

[Ciaobelli]

Excuse my ignorance but what exactly is the Mickey Mouse Club?

[Joe Carioca]

GREAT news, Trojan Mouse! Thank you so much for keeping us informed!

I also would preffer a regular release for "Song of the South" (a special edition, of course, but outside the Treasures line), but considering that are people inside Disney who doesn't even want to think of the possibilities of releasing it, it is so great that we are finally getting it that it doesn't matter in what form they release it.

[JoeyOhhhh]

Hi guys, first time posting here.

I always thought releasing SOTS through the Treasures line would be a good way, and they could even include like a history of Disney mixing live action and animation through the years.

[Paka]

Hey JoeyOhhhh!! (With four H's... got it...)

I, too, think releasing SotS through the WDT line is a fair compromise between the vault and a wide home video release. It will certainly get a "royal" treatment, and it'll be "protected" under the WDT line of dvds, in a way, since the WDTs already focus more on some of Disney's more "questionable" material. The limited number (even if they upped it to 250,000+) is a drawback, though. It kind of limits the potential audience for the film. I mean, those that really want to have it will find it, but there will be several others out there that would like to own the film, but wouldn't know of its release, since the WDTs are fairly low-key.

Perhaps, if Disney sees how rapidly the WDT sells (out), they may just release it wide in its own Special Edition case - or at least a tinless WDT case. *shrug*