Fantasia/F2K: 2-Movie Collection Discussion: Nov. 30, 2010

[ajmrowland]

oh, just face it people. it's Disney. because of their name, even their most obscure release (Black Cauldron: SE) will be the edited version because parents will once again totally ignore their kids' reactions and call to complain.

[blackcauldron85]

oh, just face it people. it's Disney. because of their name, even their most obscure release (Black Cauldron: SE) will be the edited version because parents will once again totally ignore their kids' reactions and call to complain.

Well, what you're calling the "edited" version is actually the theatrical film (at least in the U.S.; for home video, England got more cut, but I'm not sure if that footage was in their theatrical version or not, and I don't have time to check right now!).

[singerguy04]

Personally, I almost support the edit in Fantasia. I do believe Sunflower to be unacceptable by today's standards, and being that she's such a tiny unimportant part of the sequence I don't mind her being cut. My biggest problem with it is the tiny blurp in the music where the cut occurs. If she does appear in the film I wouldn't be outraged or anything, but I don't see why disney would risk a possible media superstorm for a few seconds of obscure footage. True, it was someone's hard work that went into the creation of Sunflower, but much worse cuts have been made in films before. It's just a part of the business.

I know it sounds hypocritical because I believe Song of the South should be released, but there's a huge difference for me between an entire film and a few seconds of film.

[TheSequelOfDisney]

I have yet to see a difference between Sunflower and the Zebra-Centaurettes that are shading Bacchus. I know they aren't the same Centuarettes, but they're both doing the same thing to white characters. Why leave the Zebra-Centuarettes in and cut Sunflower out? The whole thing seems really dumb, and I just want to have the entirety of Fantasia. Is that asking way too much? I don't think so. Though racism is still present, I think that everything is much better now than it was 40 years ago (Don't we have a black president? Well, biracial, but still).

[singerguy04]

My beef with Sunflower is her appearance. She is noticeably "uglier" than the other centaurs including the ones serving Bacchus. There's also reference in her design to black face and other socially unacceptable forms of entertainment today.

I think that although the black/zebra centaurs are still in and are still serving, they mix in a lot easier with the other centaurs than Sunflower does. In some way or another, all the characters are working for Bacchus anyway. He is a god after all.

[Rudy Matt]

They could always be selling the unedited version, which would explain the lack of marketing.

So...this could potentially be a testing ground for releasing Song of the South...!!!

And I'm thrilled about Destino- it's way overdue- but I personally wish that it would get its own release, for people who may not want to double-dip on Fantasia...

I strongly diagree with the idea that Disney is going to low-ball Fantasia. It makes absolutely no sense. Disney is going to quietly give a home video release to one of their five highest grossing animated films with little promotion and treat it like a Disney Treasure set? That would be like Disney doing the same thing with The Lion King. It makes no sense.

[blackcauldron85]

My biggest problem with it is the tiny blurp in the music where the cut occurs.

Maybe if they fixed that, then there wouldn't be such a want for Sunflower to be in there. But as it is, the film is imperfect due to that. (I'm not one who will get on my high horse about it, but you'd think that Disney would do something...but this is the company who butchered the package films, so...)

I have yet to see a difference between Sunflower and the Zebra-Centaurettes that are shading Bacchus. I know they aren't the same Centuarettes, but they're both doing the same thing to white characters.

I think it's due to their appearance; the zebra-Centaurettes are still beautiful, similar to the other Centaurettes, while Sunflower's style is so different from the other characters.

^ Yeah, what singerguy said...great minds think alike... (I type as I read...)

In some way or another, all the characters are working for Bacchus anyway. He is a god after all.

That's a good point...but I guess the zebras wait on Bacchus more, though...right?

Rudy, what does what you quoted have to do with whether or not Disney low-balls Fantasia?

[Rudy Matt]

My biggest problem with it is the tiny blurp in the music where the cut occurs.

Maybe if they fixed that, then there wouldn't be such a want for Sunflower to be in there. But as it is, the film is imperfect due to that. (I'm not one who will get on my high horse about it, but you'd think that Disney would do something...but this is the company who butchered the package films, so...)

I have yet to see a difference between Sunflower and the Zebra-Centaurettes that are shading Bacchus. I know they aren't the same Centuarettes, but they're both doing the same thing to white characters.

I think it's due to their appearance; the zebra-Centaurettes are still beautiful, similar to the other Centaurettes, while Sunflower's style is so different from the other characters.

^ Yeah, what singerguy said...great minds think alike... (I type as I read...)

In some way or another, all the characters are working for Bacchus anyway. He is a god after all.

That's a good point...but I guess the zebras wait on Bacchus more, though...right?

Rudy, what does what you quoted have to do with whether or not Disney low-balls Fantasia?

You were responding to the idea that a small release of Fantasia (we don't have to use the phrase low-ball) to some sort of limited release for adults would lead to Song of the South seeing a release in the same fashion -- I'm saying I don't think the "Low Ball Theory" has any reasonable chance of happening. In fact, I think a release of Song of the South has a more likely chance of achieving reality than some under-the radar, limited release, adult-centric version of Fantasia.

[blackcauldron85]

You were responding to the idea that a small release of Fantasia (we don't have to use the phrase low-ball) to some sort of limited release for adults would lead to Song of the South seeing a release in the same fashion -- I'm saying I don't think the "Low Ball Theory" has any reasonable chance of happening. In fact, I think a release of Song of the South has a more likely chance of achieving reality than some under-the radar, limited release, adult-centric version of Fantasia.

Nope, I was writing about the idea that, if they released an unedited Fantasia, they could use it as a judge of when and how to possibly release Song of the South; I wasn't saying anything about the quantity of either release. Of course Fantasia isn't going to be in a limited run. I could see SOTS being in a limited run, though.

[Rudy Matt]

You were responding to the idea that a small release of Fantasia (we don't have to use the phrase low-ball) to some sort of limited release for adults would lead to Song of the South seeing a release in the same fashion -- I'm saying I don't think the "Low Ball Theory" has any reasonable chance of happening. In fact, I think a release of Song of the South has a more likely chance of achieving reality than some under-the radar, limited release, adult-centric version of Fantasia.

Nope, I was writing about the idea that, if they released an unedited Fantasia, they could use it as a judge of when and how to possibly release Song of the South; I wasn't saying anything about the quantity of either release. Of course Fantasia isn't going to be in a limited run. I could see SOTS being in a limited run, though.

But you were quoting jpanimation, who kick started the idea of a low-balled Fantasia.

They could always be selling the unedited version, which would explain the lack of marketing. The Diamond Edition releases always have a BIG marketing push, with tie-ins, big price drops, and a ton of commercials. By dropping the Diamond status, they're free to sell it as a premium set, pack it with adult oriented supplements aimed at collectors, release it unedited, and not have to mass-market it. This way, the adult/collector demographic of the Fantasia films will know about it without the huge marketing push while it would fall under the radar of mainstream America (who probably wouldn't like it anyways)

And then you responded with:

So...this could potentially be a testing ground for releasing Song of the South...!!!

Which is why I then responded with my opinion the "Low Ball Fantasia Theory" isn't going to happen. You now say you don't think a small limited release will happen. I'm glad we agree.

[blackcauldron85]

Um...

jpanimation said:

They could always be selling the unedited version, which would explain the lack of marketing.

And then I said:

So...this could potentially be a testing ground for releasing Song of the South...!!!

meaning that if they do sell the unedited Fantasia, like jpanimation mentioned, then they could see how that went, and then, if it went okay, they could sell Song of the South.

Nowhere did I write or quote about dropping the title as a Diamond Edition or making it a limited edition...?

[Rudy Matt]

meaning that if they do sell the unedited Fantasia, like jpanimation mentioned

JPanimation's idea was dropping it from the line so it could be sold as an adult limited collector's item with uncensored footage. That's what he was talking about. If I implied you were excited about the idea (based your apparent enthusiasm and use of punctuation, and causational reasoning posutlating such a thing would lead to a release of Song of the South), and you did not mean any of that, then I apologize.

[blackcauldron85]

I'm confused, but no, that's not what I meant. Just that if Fantasia were to be released unedited, that maybe SOTS would be, too. That's all. No worries.

[Rudy Matt]

I'm confused, but no, that's not what I meant. Just that if Fantasia were to be released unedited, that maybe SOTS would be, too. That's all. No worries.

By the way BC -

I love The Black Cauldron. Do you have a home theater sound system?
I enjoy reading your posts all through the Disney On-Line Community (Jim Hill, etc.)
And I especially appreciate your links in threads to outside information. You're a one-person daily info-bomb!
Keep it up!

[yamiiguy]

BBFC:

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/AVV271870

MUSICANA [Additional material FANTASIA 2000]
Video - 8m56s
Online - 8m56s

Maybe BD-Live then?

[Coolmanio]

I know this is not the real cover art, but I thought something like this would look nice.

[fatcake]

Its awsome it certainly could be the cover, I hope

[singerguy04]

I love that cover art! Did you make that Coolmanio? If not where did you find it?

[ajmrowland]

oh, just face it people. it's Disney. because of their name, even their most obscure release (Black Cauldron: SE) will be the edited version because parents will once again totally ignore their kids' reactions and call to complain.

Well, what you're calling the "edited" version is actually the theatrical film (at least in the U.S.; for home video, England got more cut, but I'm not sure if that footage was in their theatrical version or not, and I don't have time to check right now!).

well.................cant excuse that mistake. I just never saw the film, so I wouldnt know what was cut for the theatrical release/home video release.

[zackisthewalrus]

I know this is not the real cover art, but I thought something like this would look nice.

I like it. If only Disney would get off of their asses and get everything in order.