I kept looking for this thread in Disney Discussion but finally searched in all forums and found it! I knew there had once been a thread devoted to this wonderful book!
On to the actual post:
I purchased this book a few years ago at the urging of my Comic Book Guy. Every time I came into the shop and we got to talking about comics we loved, he would urge me to read this book. I bought it almost three years ago then and read the first chapter. Then, following a horrible habit I have I put it away without finishing it. Well, recently I was inspired to pick it up again and start reading. This time I couldn't put it down. It was incredible. I like Rosa's attempts to make Scrooge's life into an actual chronology. And his art is so richly detailed without sacrificing any of the "cartooniness" of the material. All together this is just a great adventure book. Until Ron (the Comic Book Guy) first started talking to me about the history of the Duck comics a few years back I had no idea how rich a legacy it really was. I had been a comics fan most of my life but sadly in America, Scrooge's popularity pales in comparison to other parts of the world (except perhaps amongst Baby Boomer comics fans in the US). Lately it seemed the Barks names kept coming up in odd places and that inspired me to start reading the Rosa book. Now I want to get the Companion, the Treasures collection, and some reprints of some actual Barks stories.
If you are a Disney fan and have not read this (especially if you grew up with DuckTales like I did), then do yourself a favor and pick up this book.
Note: It's temporarily out-of-print and can be difficult to find sometimes, but Boom!Studios has recently acquired the rights to Disney comics and has announced plans to put it back into print very soon.
Scrooge McDuck
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Brer Brandon
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KubrickFan
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That's great news. I was looking for it after having bought some of the dutch chapters, but I wanted it in English and couldn't find it anywhere because it was out of print. It's a very popular comic, so the demand for it will be great, I think. Let's hope they release it in an oversized hardcover version too.Brer Brandon wrote: Note: It's temporarily out-of-print and can be difficult to find sometimes, but Boom!Studios has recently acquired the rights to Disney comics and has announced plans to put it back into print very soon.
Actually, that comes from a story written by Carl Fallberg and drawn by Tony Strobl, called Chairman of the Bored. Barks did make a story in which we see a little Scrooge shining shoes, but in that story, we don't see him earning the number one dime. That story, The Invisible Intruder also wasn't written by Barks himself, but by Vic Lockman.Sunset Girl wrote:Yeah, he did a shoe-shine in his homeland to earn that dime (according to Barks)
The fact that Rosa used this Strobl-story in his saga 'based on' Barks-stories, probably stems from the fact that, when Barks was writing Rosa in the early 1990's, he (Barks) remembered the Strobl-story as if it was one of his own:
This information comes from DCML (Disney Comics Mailing List)I think I mentioned once in an early story that he earned that coin by shining some man's particularly muddy shoes. Wish I could remember the issue number, etc. Was his client a miner? A nobleman? A banker? Can't recall.
What you say about the coin being an American dime does bring up the possibility his client was a visiting tourist. And that could cause young Scrooge to be suspicious of the strange coin's value. This would be a good time to start building the dime's mysterious power.
Edited for spelling.
Last edited by Goliath on Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I used to be a big fan of Don Rosa and I, like you all, really believed that he was the greatest Disney Duck-artist, besides Carl Barks. But over the years I became aware of the fact that Rosa's stories are nothing like Barks' at all, and they have almost nothing in common.
The fact that he is often thought of as being true to Barks, is the fact that he constantly makes all these little references to Barks' tales in his stories. But making references and doing sequels is easy and, forgive me, lazy. If you want to be true to Barks, you have to make stories the way he did, and Rosa is not doing it. A Barks-story flows like a river, it has a timing you can write music to, but most of all, it's always clear. In fact, its apparent simplicity is deceiving. The reader, at any point in a Barks-story, knows what he needs to know and nothing more. This is what makes it possible to fully engage in the story. A Rosa-story, on the other hand, is most of the time, packed with lenghty information-heavy monologues, loads of so-called 'historically accurate' facts, difficult theories etc. You have to go back some pages to find out what was going on at some points. It doesn't flow. It's not clear. It's not at all the way Barks used to do stories.
Now that's okay if you're a fan of that type of storytelling. I'm not (at least not anymore), since I've found that in the end, most of it is just mumbo-jumbo trying to overwhelm the reader, so they get distracted from the fact that the story itself is lifeless and emotionless. There's no feeling in Rosa's stories. Rosa tries to insert feeling by writing awful campy soap-opera like crying and fighting scenes between Scrooge and Goldie or his sisters, but the result is cold and artificial and it has no place in the Disney-world. Like I said, this may be your thing, but please don't pretend it's anywhere close to what Barks would have done.
There are so many other talented Disney comic-artists who have written and drawn stories the way Barks did, but they got overshadowed by Rosa, for the simple reason that those authors didn't do references, or spend hours every day writing on the internet about their work. If you want to read some fine stories done in the Barks-spirit, check out the ones Daan Jippes and Fred Milton made together. They're a delight, and one can feel the inspiration they got from Barks in every panel. Not because of refences, but because of the atmosphere and the ways the characters interact.
I also want to point out that Rosa didn't made a life-story for Scrooge using all Barks-facts, as he said he did. I would be okay with him excluding certain things, if Rosa didn't repeat constantly that he used them all. Barks' character Miss Penny Wise, from the story Flour Follies is nowhere to be found in Rosa's story. She holds a note from Scrooge's past which could ruïn him. That's why, according to Barks, she is the *only* person of whom Scrooge is afraid. The Beagle Boys can steal his money, but he can get it back. However, Miss Penny Wise can obtain his money legally. When asked about this, Rosa first didn't know who Penny Wise was. Later he said, rather than admitting he had forgotten about her, that he "gladly ignored" Barks' story, because "I still say it tastes like spinach, so to hell with it". So far from the great 'Barks-follower'.
Again, this information is taken from DCML, where Rosa himself was writing messages almost everyday during the mid-1990's. But he forgot the internet was not a private club, so we could all read along with him. That's how I got to read how he called Carl Barks an "evil genius". Apparantly, Rosa went to a comic convention in Atlanta where Barks was also going and Rosa didn't get to meet Barks. So he wrote on DCML that Barks "royally snubbed" him and that Barks therefore was an "evil genius". Rosa always wanted Barks' recognition that he was his true succesor, but Barks instead was more admiring of Daan Jippes, Vicar and the Italian artists in general.
The fact that he is often thought of as being true to Barks, is the fact that he constantly makes all these little references to Barks' tales in his stories. But making references and doing sequels is easy and, forgive me, lazy. If you want to be true to Barks, you have to make stories the way he did, and Rosa is not doing it. A Barks-story flows like a river, it has a timing you can write music to, but most of all, it's always clear. In fact, its apparent simplicity is deceiving. The reader, at any point in a Barks-story, knows what he needs to know and nothing more. This is what makes it possible to fully engage in the story. A Rosa-story, on the other hand, is most of the time, packed with lenghty information-heavy monologues, loads of so-called 'historically accurate' facts, difficult theories etc. You have to go back some pages to find out what was going on at some points. It doesn't flow. It's not clear. It's not at all the way Barks used to do stories.
Now that's okay if you're a fan of that type of storytelling. I'm not (at least not anymore), since I've found that in the end, most of it is just mumbo-jumbo trying to overwhelm the reader, so they get distracted from the fact that the story itself is lifeless and emotionless. There's no feeling in Rosa's stories. Rosa tries to insert feeling by writing awful campy soap-opera like crying and fighting scenes between Scrooge and Goldie or his sisters, but the result is cold and artificial and it has no place in the Disney-world. Like I said, this may be your thing, but please don't pretend it's anywhere close to what Barks would have done.
There are so many other talented Disney comic-artists who have written and drawn stories the way Barks did, but they got overshadowed by Rosa, for the simple reason that those authors didn't do references, or spend hours every day writing on the internet about their work. If you want to read some fine stories done in the Barks-spirit, check out the ones Daan Jippes and Fred Milton made together. They're a delight, and one can feel the inspiration they got from Barks in every panel. Not because of refences, but because of the atmosphere and the ways the characters interact.
I also want to point out that Rosa didn't made a life-story for Scrooge using all Barks-facts, as he said he did. I would be okay with him excluding certain things, if Rosa didn't repeat constantly that he used them all. Barks' character Miss Penny Wise, from the story Flour Follies is nowhere to be found in Rosa's story. She holds a note from Scrooge's past which could ruïn him. That's why, according to Barks, she is the *only* person of whom Scrooge is afraid. The Beagle Boys can steal his money, but he can get it back. However, Miss Penny Wise can obtain his money legally. When asked about this, Rosa first didn't know who Penny Wise was. Later he said, rather than admitting he had forgotten about her, that he "gladly ignored" Barks' story, because "I still say it tastes like spinach, so to hell with it". So far from the great 'Barks-follower'.
Again, this information is taken from DCML, where Rosa himself was writing messages almost everyday during the mid-1990's. But he forgot the internet was not a private club, so we could all read along with him. That's how I got to read how he called Carl Barks an "evil genius". Apparantly, Rosa went to a comic convention in Atlanta where Barks was also going and Rosa didn't get to meet Barks. So he wrote on DCML that Barks "royally snubbed" him and that Barks therefore was an "evil genius". Rosa always wanted Barks' recognition that he was his true succesor, but Barks instead was more admiring of Daan Jippes, Vicar and the Italian artists in general.
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Disney Duster
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The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck
Well, I didn't read it, but I must say, isn't this supposed to be more like an expansion and connecting and almost re-imagining of Bark's stories?
So to expand upon the old stories, one must expand on the dialogue, expand on the things known, expand on the information. And yes, that will make lengthier.
So, we should get more than Bark's stories, not just Bark's stories with different art, or just new stories told in the same way Barks did.
This is more like a Life and Times Chronology than an attempt at making new stories in the same style he did. Otherwise why not cut the strips of the old stories out and paste them all together in a book, and say that's the whole story, then? He aimed to expand, maybe deepen, maybe make complex, but do something a little different.
Would it be possible to do the same kind of chronology thing more in the style of Barks? Well, maybe...
I don't know what I'm doing by inviting this comparison, but when Gregory McGuire made Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, that was not in the same style as L. Frank Baum's books at all. You know what kind of different thing that was intended to be, and maybe that's what Rosa was trying to do, to.
So to expand upon the old stories, one must expand on the dialogue, expand on the things known, expand on the information. And yes, that will make lengthier.
So, we should get more than Bark's stories, not just Bark's stories with different art, or just new stories told in the same way Barks did.
This is more like a Life and Times Chronology than an attempt at making new stories in the same style he did. Otherwise why not cut the strips of the old stories out and paste them all together in a book, and say that's the whole story, then? He aimed to expand, maybe deepen, maybe make complex, but do something a little different.
Would it be possible to do the same kind of chronology thing more in the style of Barks? Well, maybe...
I don't know what I'm doing by inviting this comparison, but when Gregory McGuire made Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, that was not in the same style as L. Frank Baum's books at all. You know what kind of different thing that was intended to be, and maybe that's what Rosa was trying to do, to.
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KubrickFan
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I watch this as any other 'different' take of a comic character. Look at Batman, for instance. His origins are established pretty well, but out of those few facts there are a lot of stories created that deal with the birth of the Batman. One could say that 'Year One' is the definitive, but that doesn't really have to be.
I look at the Don Rosa stories not as the 'definitive' stories at all. More like a companion, or something. His stories and Barks' can perfectly coexist next to each other, without the debate of which one is superior (that's personal anyway).
And by the way, I was looking for some sort of Carl Barks Collection with everything he wrote, but there doesn't seem to be one in English? Are the rights for that elapsed too (to what company do they belong anyway?)
I look at the Don Rosa stories not as the 'definitive' stories at all. More like a companion, or something. His stories and Barks' can perfectly coexist next to each other, without the debate of which one is superior (that's personal anyway).
And by the way, I was looking for some sort of Carl Barks Collection with everything he wrote, but there doesn't seem to be one in English? Are the rights for that elapsed too (to what company do they belong anyway?)
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Brer Brandon
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Maybe it comes from a lifetime of reading superhero comics but I have no difficulty taking different interpretations of different characters and combining them all into a loose sort of canon or continuity. It comes with the territory.
Now as to the comparisons between Barks and Rosa I can't really speak to that. I've never read any Barks. My entire experience of Scrooge comics comes from this one collection. I enjoyed it and Rosa's notes detailing different Barks facts made me want to read the original stories. I really have no idea how alike or different the two writers are. I did enjoy Rosa's "Life and Times" though.
Now as to the comparisons between Barks and Rosa I can't really speak to that. I've never read any Barks. My entire experience of Scrooge comics comes from this one collection. I enjoyed it and Rosa's notes detailing different Barks facts made me want to read the original stories. I really have no idea how alike or different the two writers are. I did enjoy Rosa's "Life and Times" though.
I don't think that's necessary at all. Rosa is telling new stories, based on old stories (which were done by Barks). So he's creating new situations, new characters, new tales etc. while supposedly basing them on facts from Barks-stories. But the key idea is that his stories can also be read without having read the ones done by Barks. And in Rosa's way of storytelling, there is virtually nothing that reminds me of the atmosphere, the spirit or the 'flow' of a Barks-story. And again: he doesn't have to be a second Barks. I'm not asking for that. All I ask is him and his fans not claiming that he is.Disney Duster wrote:Well, I didn't read it, but I must say, isn't this supposed to be more like an expansion and connecting and almost re-imagining of Bark's stories? So to expand upon the old stories, one must expand on the dialogue, expand on the things known, expand on the information. And yes, that will make lengthier. [...]
By the way, my description of Rosa's way of storytelling is actually more about his later, post-Life and Times-work. Life & Times wasn't too bad, overall. I still enjoy his earlier work much more, but the original L&T is not all that bad, although I think chapter 12 is a real stinker. The early stories still have a lot of 'breath' in the pages and the script. But after L&T, Rosa began cramming more and more information in the same amount of pages. Rosa himself admitted using ideas for 64 pages in a story of 32 pages. The effect is having up to 12 panels on one page, as opposed to the regular 8, filled with huge balloons and the Ducks doing nothing but talk endlessly, which is not only boring, but it also makes the pages unattractive to look at. Barks, on the other hand, knew that 'less is more'. When a young aspiring artist asked for his advice, Barks wrote to him: "Be mean. Throw perfectly good gags in the wastebucket." A lesson Rosa still hasn't learned.
I have to disagree about that. Rosa's and Barks' stories are not on the same par. Barks never wrote stories with plot holes big enough to drive a truck through. Rosa did. Barks never wrote stories that revolved around depressing family feuds or soap-opera love stories. Rosa did. Barks didn't reduce his characters to stock figures who had only one or two moods. Rosa did.KubrickFan wrote:I look at the Don Rosa stories not as the 'definitive' stories at all. More like a companion, or something. His stories and Barks' can perfectly coexist next to each other, without the debate of which one is superior (that's personal anyway).
And let's not forget Rosa has 'banished' certain Barks-stories. I already mentioned 'Flour follies', but Rosa has also put a curse on 'The magic hourglass' because Scrooge believes a magic hourglass to be the source of his fortune in that story. Ignoring the fact that a superstituous Scrooge is a returning element in Barks' comics. Rosa also discounted 'Island in the sky' and 'The interplanetary postman' as "fictional fiction", meaning the stories didn't really happen. Has anybody noticed that, due to Rosa's story 'Hearts of the Yukon', the Ducks are now walking in a replica of the Blackjack Saloon in Barks' classic 'Back to the Klondike'? In 'Hearts of the Yukon', Rosa sets the Saloon on fire. The result is that the Saloon from 'Back to the Klondike' isn't the original one.
There was a Carl Barks Library, but I think most volumes are sold out.KubrickFan wrote:And by the way, I was looking for some sort of Carl Barks Collection with everything he wrote, but there doesn't seem to be one in English? Are the rights for that elapsed too (to what company do they belong anyway?)
http://www.brucehamilton.com/AR/Books/CBL/CBLmain.htm
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Disney Duster
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The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck
Well, it seems he wanted to create a deeper, darker, or more complicated atmosphere, flow, or spirit. A new atmosphere and spirit. The depressing family feuds and soap operaness is probably what he thought would make the stories deeper on a serious or emotional level. One long Life and Times chronology is different from a series of episodes.
But I agree, if he's doing the characters, stories, atmosphere, everything that differently, and Bark's doesn't approve of him, then he can't be the new Carl Barks. Especially if as you say he got worse after Life and Times, then.
But I agree, if he's doing the characters, stories, atmosphere, everything that differently, and Bark's doesn't approve of him, then he can't be the new Carl Barks. Especially if as you say he got worse after Life and Times, then.
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Elladorine
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I've just gotta say I love Rosa's Life & Times for what it is. I love all the little facts, the history, the connections, the humor, the pathos . . . there were actually parts that touched me and made me cry, something I *never* expected from a Scrooge McDuck story way back when I started watching DuckTales as a kid. I'm also surprised at how adult some of it feels. The Life & Times and the companion book still remain my favorites when it comes to comics. I'd still love to see it made into an animated mini-series or a set of films, however unlikely it would ever happen.
I admittedly haven't read enough Barks, but I'm finally getting back into it again (I've been on a new kick ever since I attended the SDCC). He created such a great character and I love how other artists and writers have expanded upon who he is. They all handle the stories and artwork in their own ways so I don't feel it's really fair to compare them.
I admittedly haven't read enough Barks, but I'm finally getting back into it again (I've been on a new kick ever since I attended the SDCC). He created such a great character and I love how other artists and writers have expanded upon who he is. They all handle the stories and artwork in their own ways so I don't feel it's really fair to compare them.
If you thought Rosa's stories were mature and could touch you in a way you'd never think was possible, you will be blown away by the emotional richness in Barks' stories. But in Barks' stories, this is not spelled out or made explicit, like in Rosa's stories. That's why I think a lot of people underestimate the complexity of Barks' stories. They look very simple, but the simplicity is deceiving.
It's good that there are different kinds of stories for different kind of people with different taste. People who like slapstick, absurdity and pointy dialogues can read William van Horn's work. People who would like to see a 'classic' styled Donald or Mickey in the present, can read César Feriloi's stories. There are many authors besides Barks and Rosa.
But as I understand it, Disney comics are not longer read in the US like they were 50 years ago. Disney comics have become collector's items, only to be found in expensive bookshops, in luxury editions. The readers in the US are no longer millions of young boys and girls, as it should be. It has no future, outside of Europe. Amazing that this could happen in the country were these comics originated.
It's good that there are different kinds of stories for different kind of people with different taste. People who like slapstick, absurdity and pointy dialogues can read William van Horn's work. People who would like to see a 'classic' styled Donald or Mickey in the present, can read César Feriloi's stories. There are many authors besides Barks and Rosa.
But as I understand it, Disney comics are not longer read in the US like they were 50 years ago. Disney comics have become collector's items, only to be found in expensive bookshops, in luxury editions. The readers in the US are no longer millions of young boys and girls, as it should be. It has no future, outside of Europe. Amazing that this could happen in the country were these comics originated.
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Elladorine
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I finally picked up Carl Barks Greatest DuckTales Stories vol. 1 at the comic shop this week, and plan on picking up vol. 2 on my next run. It's been a great read so far. Funny, I'd planned on picking them up way back in '06 (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) but stuff happened and I kinda had to put off fun hobbies for a while.
I feel lucky to have discovered comics when I was a kid (back in the late 80's), as my mom bought me a few issues Walt Disney's Comics and Stories during a hospital stay, and I got hooked. I didn't know of anyone else at my school that read them. Scrooge and Donald became my eventual favorites, and I've rediscovered them on and off through the years.
Sadly, you're exactly right about that. Comics don't seem to be read by kids in the US anymore, at least not this type; if they read comics at all, it's mostly manga and maybe some superhero stuff.Goliath wrote:But as I understand it, Disney comics are not longer read in the US like they were 50 years ago. Disney comics have become collector's items, only to be found in expensive bookshops, in luxury editions. The readers in the US are no longer millions of young boys and girls, as it should be. It has no future, outside of Europe. Amazing that this could happen in the country were these comics originated.
I feel lucky to have discovered comics when I was a kid (back in the late 80's), as my mom bought me a few issues Walt Disney's Comics and Stories during a hospital stay, and I got hooked. I didn't know of anyone else at my school that read them. Scrooge and Donald became my eventual favorites, and I've rediscovered them on and off through the years.
I don't really know why this thread is in the off-topic section, by the way. I mean, it is about Disney discussion, right?
Anyway, I guess the stories in the DuckTales Carl Barks book are only those that inspired episodes on the series, right? In that case it will only be the long Uncle Scrooge-stories that Barks made. And as good as they are, there are still even better Barks-stories out there. I think his Donald-stories are far more interesting (because Donald, in Barks' hands, is a far more interesting character). The essence of Barks' work, I think, lie in the short 10-page Donald-stories he made. A kind of stories Don Rosa could never write (in fact, he hasn't).
All Barks-stories (and Rosa's, by the way), can be read here:
http://disneycomics.free.fr/index.php
Anyway, I guess the stories in the DuckTales Carl Barks book are only those that inspired episodes on the series, right? In that case it will only be the long Uncle Scrooge-stories that Barks made. And as good as they are, there are still even better Barks-stories out there. I think his Donald-stories are far more interesting (because Donald, in Barks' hands, is a far more interesting character). The essence of Barks' work, I think, lie in the short 10-page Donald-stories he made. A kind of stories Don Rosa could never write (in fact, he hasn't).
All Barks-stories (and Rosa's, by the way), can be read here:
http://disneycomics.free.fr/index.php
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Elladorine
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We can blame Sunset Girl for that.Goliath wrote:I don't really know why this thread is in the off-topic section, by the way. I mean, it is about Disney discussion, right?
Actually, was the forum organized a little differently back then? Like the Disney section was only for DVD discussion or something? I can't remember now.
Oh wow, I was gonna reply to this sooner but I got caught up in reading, thanks so much for the link! I've got a lot of catching up to do.Goliath wrote:Anyway, I guess the stories in the DuckTales Carl Barks book are only those that inspired episodes on the series, right? In that case it will only be the long Uncle Scrooge-stories that Barks made. And as good as they are, there are still even better Barks-stories out there. I think his Donald-stories are far more interesting (because Donald, in Barks' hands, is a far more interesting character). The essence of Barks' work, I think, lie in the short 10-page Donald-stories he made. A kind of stories Don Rosa could never write (in fact, he hasn't).
All Barks-stories (and Rosa's, by the way), can be read here:
http://disneycomics.free.fr/index.php
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PatrickvD
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Inception... Scrooge McDuck-style!
oh my mr. Nolan, this is quite a coincidence
Inception ripped off a Scrooge McDuck comic
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/03/in ... d-off.html
wow, it is pretty similar. Then one could argue that the concept of dream invasion has been done many times before. Still, this shares so many details with Inception.
Any thoughts?
Inception ripped off a Scrooge McDuck comic
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/08/03/in ... d-off.html
wow, it is pretty similar. Then one could argue that the concept of dream invasion has been done many times before. Still, this shares so many details with Inception.
Any thoughts?
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Heil Donald Duck
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Wonderlicious
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Wow. Disney ripped off the Brothers Grimm. It was them who wrote about Snow White, she wasn't a cartoon character originally. She was thieved from literature! Same for Cinderella, Peter Pan, Alice, Pooh and Pinocchio. All stolen from other authors and then claimed as Disney's own. Tut tut. 
And let's not knock Inception, as it is a very good film.
And let's not knock Inception, as it is a very good film.