The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

[UmbrellaFish]

There are many people I know who would love to own their own business, so at least that aprt is relatable. Everyone has different dreams. If Tiana's dream was to be a jazz princess or Queen of Mardi Gras, there would be people complaining "ah, we've seen this before. When will Disney do something new?," etc. Everyone has different goals and aspirations. What if Tiana had wanted to be a fashion desginer? Or a silent-screen actress? Or a writer? I don't know if I'm making any sense...

And, I thought the movie was quite magical for a 1920s American setting. The Evening star, the church/wedding, Charlotte's mainsion/neighborhood, etc.

Tiana's goal was very specific. There's nothing at all wrong with that, but in the case of the other Princesses have much wider goals that are easier to relate to- most people want to fall in love, most people want to be accepted. Once again, it doesn't hinder the action having a goal like that, it's just one thing that's different between this movie and the previous Renaissance films.

I agree about the magic.

[blackcauldron85]

I agree about the magic.

Me, three!

[Goliath]

I hate to agree, but I do (although I think the death of Ray touched me more than other movie-goers). The moment it was announced Maddy/Tiana's goal in the film was to open a restauraunt, it felt a little lackluster, and it is. I don't think it slows the progress of the film, but it's not the type of thing that would have been in a Renaissance movie.

Then again, does every new Disney film have to be 'just like a Renaissance film?' Why repeat past successes? Why not come up with something new and fresh. To me, Tiana's goal was the least of my problems with the film. I also think you're all forgetting how hard it must have been for a black woman with no education (or so we assume) in the South to open up her own business. That must have been a very hard goal to reach. Don't belittle that.

No, Tiana's goals and motives didn't exactly follow those of the 'Renaissance films', but is that a bad thing? Is a Disney film only worth watching if it's about a grand personal quest of a tormented main character? We had movie after movie with that motive in the 1990's, up to the point that it became repetitive. Walt Disney's movies didn't have as much of that. Take Peter Pan, Junglebook, One Hundred and One Dalmatians, Lady and the Tramp etc. None of them had those character-changin' motives (of course there was character development), and they were very succesful and enjoyable movies.

While it had been years since the release of a big, traditionally animated film, the public obviously didn't notice. If you watched Oscar telecasts you saw 2-D animation from other countries, and commercials still used 2-D animation, especially cereal commercials. What the public saw was just a new princess movie, not a new traditionally animated film.

That's largely Disney's own fault, because they have flooded the market with direct-to-dvd sequels (hand drawn) and all the princess merchandising. A new Disney film simply wasn't an event anymore.

[UmbrellaFish]

Then again, does every new Disney film have to be 'just like a Renaissance film? Why repeat past successes? Why not come up with something new and fresh. To me, Tiana's goal was the least of my problems with the film. I also think you're all forgetting how hard it must have been for a black woman with no education (or so we assume) in the South to open up her own business. That must have been a very hard goal to reach. Don't belittle that.

No there's nothing wrong with that. I'm only explaining why, if you were expecting it to be a Renaissance film (and let's be honest, most were), you'd be disappointed.

Oh, and yes it had to have been hard for an African-American woman in the real 1920's to set up a business, but that's not what's presented in the film. I felt, if anything, it was her poverty, not her race, setting her back. All the allusions like "a woman of your background" can be interpreted differently. I think the only time Disney directly referenced racial tensions was when young Tiana and her mother got on the back of the trolley car at the beginning of the movie.

That's largely Disney's own fault, because they have flooded the market with direct-to-dvd sequels (hand drawn) and all the princess merchandising. A new Disney film simply wasn't an event anymore.

Ah, yes, I forgot to mention the DTV sequels.

[DisneyJedi]

Well.... I could be wrong, but I think the directors of TPatF intentionally chose Randy Newman b/c his music sounded jazzy.

I honestly do tend to get annoyed when people say that Alan Menken should have done it when I thought Randy Newman did a great job. Besides, Menken had his hands full with Enchanted and Tangled.

Your right in that the directors picked Newman, which is why I don't fault Lasseter in the decision of choosing him. But certainly Menken could have handled a "jazzy" soundtrack. Newman did the best job he could, but personally I think Menken could have been even better.

Speaking about Menken having his hands full, here's all the stuff he worked on from 1989 to 1995, courtesy of Wikipedia-

The Little Mermaid, 1989
Rocky V, 1990 (single song)
Cartoon All-Stars to the Rescue (single song)
Beauty and the Beast, 1991
Weird Romance, 1992
Newsies, 1992
Aladdin, 1992
Home Alone 2: Lost in New York, 1992 (single song)
Life With Mikey, 1993
Beauty and the Beast, 1994
Pocahontas, 1995
A Christmas Carol, 1995

And that's a mix of film, television, and Broadway. I'm sure that as a professional he rather have more work than none.

I think you forgot The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996) and Hercules (1997)

Now, I'm hoping that the music in Tangled will be nothing short of amazing.

And for those who hate(d) Randy Newman or his work on TPatF....

[UmbrellaFish]

I think you forgot The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996) and Hercules (1997)

Now, I'm hoping that the music in Tangled will be nothing short of amazing.

And for those who hate(d) Randy Newman or his work on TPatF....

Well, I did say 1989-1995, unless you meant that the music for Poca and Hunchback was in development at the time, which is most likely true.

[jpanimation]

On the subject of music- it is weaker. I felt for a long time it was unfair to say Menken could have done a better job, but I do feel now that he could have. There's nothing so special about the music that it immediately captivates you, which is a shame because if the music had been more memorable, I think the film would have done even better box office.

Eh, but discussing this is sort of like beating a dead horse, isn't it?

Well.... I could be wrong, but I think the directors of TPatF intentionally chose Randy Newman b/c his music sounded jazzy.

I honestly do tend to get annoyed when people say that Alan Menken should have done it when I thought Randy Newman did a great job. Besides, Menken had his hands full with Enchanted and Tangled.

Not exactly. Both Ron and John REALLY wanted Menken, who at the time wasn't assigned to Rapunzel (only Enchanted) but Lasseter pushed Newman on them. CLICK HERE to read the full article.

From what I've heard, many members WDFA respect Lasseter but aren't exactly happy with how he's handling things. I personally give him a pass for axing the DTV sequels but I really hope he gets it together. He needs to loosen the leash and allow creativity to flow but I guess it's understandable with all the box office disappointments why he's keeping the WDFA projects soo close (well, playing it safe).

[DisneyJedi]

And once again, I'm concerned for the future of hand-drawn.

[pap64]

Well.... I could be wrong, but I think the directors of TPatF intentionally chose Randy Newman b/c his music sounded jazzy.

I honestly do tend to get annoyed when people say that Alan Menken should have done it when I thought Randy Newman did a great job. Besides, Menken had his hands full with Enchanted and Tangled.

Not exactly. Both Ron and John REALLY wanted Menken, who at the time wasn't assigned to Rapunzel (only Enchanted) but Lasseter pushed Newman on them. CLICK HERE to read the full article.

From what I've heard, many members WDFA respect Lasseter but aren't exactly happy with how he's handling things. I personally give him a pass for axing the DTV sequels but I really hope he gets it together. He needs to loosen the leash and allow creativity to flow but I guess it's understandable with all the box office disappointments why he's keeping the WDFA projects soo close (well, playing it safe).

This I find odd. Lasseter of all people should know that animators create better movies if they are allowed a certain degree of freedom when animating their stories. The biggest reason Pixar is so respected and beloved is because they create a lot of impressive films. I mean, a movie like Wall-E and Up wouldn't have been accepted at Disney because of their "radical" ideals. So its weird how one studio is allowed to do all of these great things, while the other (the one whose existence fueled the creations of the other) is so restrictive.

[ajmrowland]

Yeah. I think, if anything, Lasseter is fighting for creativity and the studio is restricting them.

[blackcauldron85]

This I find odd. Lasseter of all people should know that animators create better movies if they are allowed a certain degree of freedom when animating their stories. The biggest reason Pixar is so respected and beloved is because they create a lot of impressive films. I mean, a movie like Wall-E and Up wouldn't have been accepted at Disney because of their "radical" ideals. So its weird how one studio is allowed to do all of these great things, while the other (the one whose existence fueled the creations of the other) is so restrictive.

*cough* Conspiracy theory *cough*

What was that...did you hear something?

[Disney Duster]

Amy you're awesome and you may be smartly figuring out what's up. I think have that theory, too. Lasseter...what are you doing to Disney? Why is Pixar becoming so huge and good and Disney is losing?

[Giygas]

I wonder why on the commentary they said one of the main things that they wanted was Randy Newman's music.

...unless it's all part of

[Disney Duster]

It's true, I did hear in more than one interview from the guys that they wanted Randy Newman from the start.

But I am wondering if they just said that. They also said they didn't intend Tiana to be the first black princess, they just wanted to do the Frog Prince in New Orleans. What a coincidence, huh?

[DisneyJedi]

Amy you're awesome and you may be smartly figuring out what's up. I think have that theory, too. Lasseter...what are you doing to Disney? Why is Pixar becoming so huge and good and Disney is losing?

That's exactly what I'm wondering, too! I know he's trying to bring Disney back to its former glory. But after the whole thing with Eisner turning Disney into a god damn piggy bank, I don't know what to believe anymore.

[blackcauldron85]

Let's unfreeze Walt. He'll save the company.

How did Roy E. feel about the direction of the company towards the end...?

[disneyboy20022]

This I find odd. Lasseter of all people should know that animators create better movies if they are allowed a certain degree of freedom when animating their stories. The biggest reason Pixar is so respected and beloved is because they create a lot of impressive films. I mean, a movie like Wall-E and Up wouldn't have been accepted at Disney because of their "radical" ideals. So its weird how one studio is allowed to do all of these great things, while the other (the one whose existence fueled the creations of the other) is so restrictive.

*cough* Conspiracy theory *cough*

What was that...did you hear something?

Let's hire this guy to get to the bottom of this "Cover Up"




and it coud be Lasseter taking over....maybe some folks at pixar are bitter about Disney not upping they're salary during the Eisner years and when Pixar was bought eventually by Disney...perhaps Pixar is taking on Disney from the Inside.....pretty soon it will be are you for team Disney or Team Pixar.....sorta like market it like are you Team Jacon or Edward...

[blackcauldron85]

The Princess and the Frog: Delivering a Legacy through Animation
http://www.laughingplace.com/Latest-ID-74963.asp

[CherryLipTherapy]

Has anyone ever thought about TPATF as a television series? It would be nice to see what Tiana and the rest are up to. I think that would be better than a sequel. Only thing is how would they incorporate Ray...

[blackcauldron85]

The only way they should include Ray would be if they show the stars, or if the characters are asking Ray for help...and look up to the stars. But he died, so hopefully they wouldn't resurrect him for the show...not that I don't like Ray , but he died...