Tangled (formerly Rapunzel) Discussion - Part II

[Candy-Bonita95]

Guys, a lot of people on Cartoon Brew are comparing Rapunzel's hair powers to Medusa from the Inhumans (which I only just got to know of). Is the "borrowed" power for Rapunzel blatant enough to be considered ripped off?

No,the her hair powers are just used to make Mother Gothel pretty.(IMO the hair symbolizes her virginity.)The powers don't make her hair move.She moves the hair wtih her bare hands to lassoo Flynn.(IMO Flynn is a mega-douche-bag.)

[robster16]

Guys, a lot of people on Cartoon Brew are comparing Rapunzel's hair powers to Medusa from the Inhumans (which I only just got to know of). Is the "borrowed" power for Rapunzel blatant enough to be considered ripped off?

No,the her hair powers are just used to make Mother Gothel pretty.(IMO the hair symbolizes her virginity.)The powers don't make her hair move.She moves the hair wtih her bare hands to lassoo Flynn.(IMO Flynn is a mega-douche-bag.)

I think it's a great idea that they added a sort of magic to Rapunzel's hair instead of just making it long for Gothel to be able to climb up the tower. In the teaser trailer Rapunzel says:

"Once it's cut, it loses it's power. A gift like that has to be protected."

Adds way more to the story then keeping it long as a climbing device. Also explains why she would have to keep it long even after she gets out of the tower and it provides an element of mind control and power of Gothel over Rapunzel. She has Rapunzel brainwashed and made her a sort of provider for Gothel to stay young and alive. Gothel on the one hand probably really loves the girl, but I think her love over the power of the hair may actually overshadow her love for her "daughter" in the end and THAT's exactly where it gets nice and twisted and interesting storywise...

[Jules]

@ Candy-Bonita and Robster ...

I'm feeling somewhat confused. I was under the impression that the power in Rapunzel's hair was in fact the power that allowed her to animate her hair. Hence why I'm concerned about the comparisons with Marvel's Inhumans.

On the other hand, you guys are implying that Rapunzel's hair is enchanted, but not in such a way that Rapunzel can willingly take control of it, but rather as a container of ... youth? Perhaps I don't know this yet as I've been consciously avoiding any plot synopses of the film so as not to be spoiled.

And if this is the case, then there are no worries of the film (possibly) ripping off any Marvel creations, right? I say this because I'm confused enough by the Kimba the White Lion/Nadia: Secret of Blue Water controversies, and don't want WDAS to once again be guilty of plaigairism.

[robster16]

@ Candy-Bonita and Robster ...

I'm feeling somewhat confused. I was under the impression that the power in Rapunzel's hair was in fact the power that allowed her to animate her hair. Hence why I'm concerned about the comparisons with Marvel's Inhumans.

On the other hand, you guys are implying that Rapunzel's hair is enchanted, but not in such a way that Rapunzel can willingly take control of it, but rather as a container of ... youth? Perhaps I don't know this yet as I've been consciously avoiding any plot synopses of the film so as not to be spoiled.

And if this is the case, then there are no worries of the film (possibly) ripping off any Marvel creations, right? I say this because I'm confused enough by the Kimba the White Lion/Nadia: Secret of Blue Water controversies, and don't want WDAS to once again be guilty of plaigairism.

There's absolutely NO reason to think Disney is ripping of Marvel in ANY way!

[robster16]

Doing a little investigating after several people have said that a lot of the animation in the trailer is made especially for the trailer as tests and will not be in the final movie and there's plenty of interesting things that can be discovered in the trailer just by looking close!

First off, one person on animationguildblog said that the shot of Rapunzel's hair falling on Flynn and Maximus laughing at that, will NOT be in the movie. So that's 1 thing we know for sure!

The second big clue of a shot that's probably not in the movie comes with a visual aid, to illustrate my point:



4 visuals, the main shot of the tower and 3 inset visuals. Look at the plants on the side of the tower. Visual 01 and Visual 03 match the growth of the main visual, but Visual 02, where Flynn is thrown out of the tower still tangled up in Rapunzel's hair in his chair does not match. There are plants missing in that shot. So good chance that this particular shot is also just for the trailer. Visual 03 seems to have TOO MUCH flowers along the side of the tower.So maybe that's also a test shot for the hair or something...

Next big thing also comes with a visual:



Look closely at the environment behind Flynn. Same piece of the room, same closet, standing mirror etc. BUT, look at the paintings on the wall. In the left picture you can see Rapunzel's signature paintings that she does all over her walls like that first promotional still already showed us are there, but in the right side picture the walls are empty. The closet is also plain wood, while the left side closet it painted blue. And the mirror is painted in the left side. Another difference is the thickness of the windowframe, the wooden beam supporting the roof is quite thin on the left side and really thick on the left sided picture.

Which makes me think the painted walls shot is more final then the right sided shot. If you think about that then there is another difference:



Two different shots, same angle, but the background is completely different. In the right side you can see some of the paintings on the wall behind Flynn, on the right side no paintings, but also completely different furniture and stuff. I'm thinking the painted shots are far more definite then the unpainted wall shots. Which makes me conclude in the following, first a selection of screenshots of shots in the trailer that I think are not definite yet because there are no painted walls. They either might be made completely as tests for the trailer and not be in the movie, OR not be finalised yet and get painted walls and re-rendered later on.

First a selection of shots without paintings:







A now a couple of shots from inside the tower where you CAN see paintings on the walls:





This leads me to a somewhat funny and quite huge conclusion. What if the entire sequence of Flynn being tangled around by the hair is actually not even in the movie and was just test animation? I mean why would Rapunzel knock Flynn unconscious with a frying pan and then hide again? to have him wake up and fight her hair and get tangled up in the chair. Would it not be easier for Rapunzel to hide when he enters the tower, then knock him unconcious and while he's unconscious tie him up in the chair and wait till he wakes up. Sounds way more logical to me. and when looking at the shots where there are no paintings on the wall, it does match my theory! I even think Flynn doesn't wake up like he does in that close-up shot that zooms out quickly to reveal he's tied down in the chair, but he gets woken up when Pascal sticks his tongue in his ear.

After this long post and me playing mister marple, what do you guys think?

[TheValentineBros]

Well, looking at the trailer, it looks good, but I gotta say, The Princess and the Frog is WAY better because of TP&TF's traditional animation.

[Mooky]

then there are no worries of the film (possibly) ripping off any Marvel creations, right? I say this because I'm confused enough by the Kimba the White Lion/Nadia: Secret of Blue Water controversies, and don't want WDAS to once again be guilty of plaigairism.

Nah, it's just a coincidence - and a rather cool one at that. I doubt the writers even thought of Medusa when coming up with the enchanted hair plot twist. Besides, bear in mind that Pixar got away with ripping off all four of Fantastic Four's powers in a movie about a family of superheroes. Compared to that, Disney is innocent as a lamb here.

[UmbrellaFish]

then there are no worries of the film (possibly) ripping off any Marvel creations, right? I say this because I'm confused enough by the Kimba the White Lion/Nadia: Secret of Blue Water controversies, and don't want WDAS to once again be guilty of plaigairism.

Nah, it's just a coincidence - and a rather cool one at that. I doubt the writers even thought of Medusa when coming up with the enchanted hair plot twist. Besides, bear in mind that Pixar got away with ripping off all four of Fantastic Four's powers in a movie about a family of superheroes. Compared to that, Disney is innocent as a lamb here.

What Mooky said. And anyway, I'm pretty sure Rapunzel's hair has more powers than making Gothel pretty- I think Rapunzel does have the power to mentally control it or whatever. But it's just a coincidence, like Mooky said. I mean, what were they going to have Rapunzel do the whole movie- just drag the hair around with her. I'd imagine that would get pretty taxing after awhile.

Onto robster16's teaser investigation- As far as I know, it's not that uncommon for trailers, especially teaser trailers, to feature scenes not featured in a movie, that either ended up on the cutting room floor, or as robster16 has so tactfully pointed out- because it was test footage never intended to be in the movie.

[Candy-Bonita95]

This leads me to a somewhat funny and quite huge conclusion. What if the entire sequence of Flynn being tangled around by the hair is actually not even in the movie and was just test animation? I mean why would Rapunzel knock Flynn unconscious with a frying pan and then hide again? to have him wake up and fight her hair and get tangled up in the chair. Would it not be easier for Rapunzel to hide when he enters the tower, then knock him unconcious and while he's unconscious tie him up in the chair and wait till he wakes up. Sounds way more logical to me. and when looking at the shots where there are no paintings on the wall, it does match my theory! I even think Flynn doesn't wake up like he does in that close-up shot that zooms out quickly to reveal he's tied down in the chair, but he gets woken up when Pascal sticks his tongue in his ear.

That does seem more logical than the fighting hair scene.

Anyways,I made another good observation.
Remember when the Sipder-man 3 trailer came out and everyone thought it was awesome?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbD9lpUvV7U
But they didn't know that this was in the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLqsdPUfnno
Atleast we know that the fighting hair scene is NOT in the movie;therefore,we won't be pissed off when we see the movie.

[Super Aurora]

then there are no worries of the film (possibly) ripping off any Marvel creations, right? I say this because I'm confused enough by the Kimba the White Lion/Nadia: Secret of Blue Water controversies, and don't want WDAS to once again be guilty of plaigairism.

Nah, it's just a coincidence - and a rather cool one at that. I doubt the writers even thought of Medusa when coming up with the enchanted hair plot twist. Besides, bear in mind that Pixar got away with ripping off all four of Fantastic Four's powers in a movie about a family of superheroes. Compared to that, Disney is innocent as a lamb here.

Only three of the four have fantastic four powers.(the mother's and the daughter's. the father's is debatable)

[Mooky]

Nah, it's just a coincidence - and a rather cool one at that. I doubt the writers even thought of Medusa when coming up with the enchanted hair plot twist. Besides, bear in mind that Pixar got away with ripping off all four of Fantastic Four's powers in a movie about a family of superheroes. Compared to that, Disney is innocent as a lamb here.

Only three of the four have fantastic four powers.(the mother's and the daughter's. the father's is debatable)

Remember this little guy...


... and his later appearance?


And Mr. Incredible is pretty much Ben Grimm without the rock-like skin.

[blackcauldron85]

And to be honest....

I don't see why the Dutch trailer is that much better. It doesn't focus any more on Rapunzel than the American one, and the only difference is they take out a few extra Flynn scenes. It's still mostly about Flynn. And the music, to me, is only a small plus, because I rather doubt it's from Menken's actual score. Now the difference of the name of the movie is great, but I'm going to be honest- I don't really care that it's called Tangled now. I'm over it.

Sums up my thoughts perfectly.

And has there ever been a Disney animated film (not Pixar) where there has been footage not from the movie (besides TBC's)? I know that Pixar does it, and with Pixar in charge of WDFA, I guess we shouldn't be surprised if this is a new practice, at least with the CGI films...

[SpringHeelJack]

Remember this little guy...


... and his later appearance?

That was always a pretty big stretch to me. One power in one scene does not a rip-off make.

[Disneykid]

And has there ever been a Disney animated film (not Pixar) where there has been footage not from the movie (besides TBC's)? I know that Pixar does it, and with Pixar in charge of WDFA, I guess we shouldn't be surprised if this is a new practice, at least with the CGI films...

The Princess and the Frog's teaser trailer was completely independent of the main movie. The first trailer for Meet the Robinsons was filled with shots and lines that didn't make it into the film, but that was a case of the film getting a major overhaul halfway in.

As for Tangled's teaser, I like it. Keeping in mind that the marketing is purposely focusing on Flynn and the comedy, I like what I'm seeing. I was a a little apprehensive about Byron Howard and Nathan Greno directing because while I thought Bolt was decent, it felt kind of run-of-the-mill Disney. The humor in Tangled's teaser is funnier than most of the stuff in Bolt and reminds me of Ron Clements and John Musker's style.

The animation, as everyone has been saying, is indeed gorgeous and lush. The level of detail in the scenery's incredible, and the character animation's very loose and fluid ala hand-drawn. Flynn definitely looks like he's going to be one of the more memorable Disney heroes.

If the drama is as effective (which the reports indicate so), then I'm sure I'll love this. Heck, I can't say I've ever even hated anything from WDAS. Even their weakest stuff (The Aristocats, The Fox and the Hound) I find better than average. I doubt Tangled will break that streak.

[blackcauldron85]

The Princess and the Frog's teaser trailer was completely independent of the main movie. The first trailer for Meet the Robinsons was filled with shots and lines that didn't make it into the film, but that was a case of the film getting a major overhaul halfway in.

That's right- I knew that about TP&tF, but I had a brainfart. And I don't remember that about MTR- I'll have to watch the trailer again. Thanks

[jpanimation]

This leads me to a somewhat funny and quite huge conclusion. What if the entire sequence of Flynn being tangled around by the hair is actually not even in the movie and was just test animation? I mean why would Rapunzel knock Flynn unconscious with a frying pan and then hide again? to have him wake up and fight her hair and get tangled up in the chair. Would it not be easier for Rapunzel to hide when he enters the tower, then knock him unconcious and while he's unconscious tie him up in the chair and wait till he wakes up. Sounds way more logical to me. and when looking at the shots where there are no paintings on the wall, it does match my theory! I even think Flynn doesn't wake up like he does in that close-up shot that zooms out quickly to reveal he's tied down in the chair, but he gets woken up when Pascal sticks his tongue in his ear.

Your conclusion goes along with what a couple of test-screeners at Cartoon Brew have been saying.

larry: Just so you guys know, this is mostly test/teaser animation, NOT footage from the movie. This was intended to get people excited, thats all. The tone of the film does not match this trailer. Thank marketing for that.

steve: Larry , having seen the film in it’s current form, i can tell you this is indeed footage from the actual film, for whatever that’s worth. these scenes were specifically rushed for the trailer.

larry: @steve I know. Thats why I said “mostly.” Some of it is, some of it isnt. How about this, all of the stuff showcasing Rapunzel’s “kung fu octopus hair” skills are not in the film. Fair enough?

Of course, this can't actually be taken as "proof" but it does match what others have said...

[Super Aurora]

Only three of the four have fantastic four powers.(the mother's and the daughter's. the father's is debatable)

Remember this little guy...


... and his later appearance?


And Mr. Incredible is pretty much Ben Grimm without the rock-like skin.

That's one of Jack's powers. As Jack has multiple powers. Human torch is is and always remain a flying flame dude.

I'm well aware Mr. Incredible is possibly like Ben hence why I stated it's debatable as various super heroes have the huge hulking super strength and Mr. Incredible could pass off as any one of those people.

[jpanimation]

It's Rapunzel in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I'm importing my Blu-ray

[Polizzi]

It's Rapunzel in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I'm importing my Blu-ray

Chorus: HALLELUJAH (George Frideric Handel: Messiah (Act II))! When it comes out on DVD, I am so going to get that movie from UK!

[DisneyLuver]

It's Rapunzel in the UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I'm importing my Blu-ray

OMG. *moves to UK*