60's & 70's Aspect Ratios (from Sword in the Stone)

[AlwaysOAR]

I've received the next batch of pressbooks I ordered, and have the following...

"Blackbeard's Ghost" 1968 Original Pressbook...no projection instructions for this title, and joins the ever growing list of those that don't have that info.

The pressbook states a running time of 106 min., 50 sec., matching it's DVD release.



"Dumbo" / "The Legend Of Lobo" 1972 Combo Re-Release Information:

MR. EXHIBITOR PLEASE NOTE!

To achieve maximum theatrical quality, project these films at the aspect ratio indicated below:

"DUMBO" Aspect Ratio 1.75 to 1 / "THE LEGEND OF LOBO" Aspect Ratio 1.75 to 1

(NOTE: While the theatrical ratio for the re-release of "The Legend Of Lobo" is 1.75:1, the DVD releases are at 1.33:1(Open-matte/Pan& Scan?), Also, apparently "Dumbo" was presented in 1972 in an aspect ratio of 1.75:1 which hadn't been invented until almost 15 years after "Dumbo" premiered, and therefore this showing is an example of the critically frowned upon re-release of Disney animated films in improper aspect ratios)

The pressbook states a runtime of 1 hr., 3 min., 38 seconds for Dumbo, matching it's DVD releases, and 1 hr., 7 min. for Lobo, matching it's DVD release.

I'll be sending this one back, as it was a misadvertisement by the seller, since I was looking for the original pressbook for Lobo.



"Treasure Of Matecumbe" 1976 Premiere Release Information:

The Aspect Ratio for "TREASURE OF MATECUMBE" to achieve the best screen image is 1:75 to 1.

(NOTE: While the original theatrical framing was instructed to be matted to 1.75:1, the Disney Movie Club Exclusive DVD only presents the film in a Pan & Scan 1.33:1 ratio.)

The pressbook states a runtime of 1 hr., 56 min., 31 sec., and I don't know what the runtime is for the DVD release.


I also received the pressbook for the "Charley And The Angel" / "Cinderella" 1973 Combo Premiere/ Re-Release. Disneyfella had already received this one and gave us the info for it, but for $5, I decided to get it also. However, I'm guessing he didn't have the ad pad insert that came with it. Though only the second page of the pressbook says anything about Cinderella being shown with the premiere of Charley and the Angel, as the promotion was almost entirely about Charley, the ad pad has some additional information.

In the ad pad it says... "The aspect ratio of "CHARLEY AND THE ANGEL" / "CINDERELLA" to achieve the best screen image is 1.75 to 1."
So, apparently "Cinderella" was presented in 1973 in an aspect ratio of 1.75:1, which hadn't been invented until about 5 years after Cinderella premiered in 1950, and therefore this showing also is an example of the critically frowned upon re-release of Disney animated films in improper aspect ratios.

The pressbook states a runtime of 1 hr., 33 min for Charley And The Angel.

I'll update the list with this info shortly...



Finally, I ordered the following pressbooks a few days ago, and should receive them in about a week plus...

1955's Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier

and

1956's Westward Ho The Wagons!, this time uncut, as the last one I received had alot of cutouts in it



Scott

[AlwaysOAR]

This post has been bumped to page 24...


Scott

[AlwaysOAR]

I received the following pressbooks...

1955's Davy Crockett, King Of The Wild Frontier...Though no projection instructions are in it, throughout the pressbook it mentions... "DAVY CROCKETT, KING OF THE WILD FRONTIER," in color by Technicolor, is adapted from the original "Disneyland" TV shows and is released by Buena Vista on the wide screen.

Now, obviously the television episodes the feature is derived from would be at 1.37:1. If the actual feature was released widescreen, and I know the original movie posters stated widescreen as well, I'd like to see the next release of this film in it's original theatrical ratio, along with the television episodes in their original form. Though I have read somewhere that it was possible it wasn't released in widescreen, despite the advertising for it when it was released, not really sure.

Also, the live-action featurette, "Arizona Sheepdog" premiered with this release...and there was no runtime stated in the pressbook.


1956's Westward Ho The Wagons!...again no projection instructions for this, and no stated runtime. It was advertised in Cinemascope, and hopefully it will be released on DVD/Blu sometime in the future.

The live-action featurette, "Disneyland U.S.A" premiered with this as well.


Finally, 1957's Old Yeller, this was a Fess Parker bundle of pressbooks that I got, though I knew the Vault Disney DVD release had some of the pages of the pressbook scanned on it. Getting this pressbook only confirms what was already revealed from the DVD scans, that the projection instructions for Old Yeller states 1.85 to 1.

Also, the pressbook states a runtime of 83 min, while the DVD releases have 84 min...



I placed an order for the following pressbooks as well...though I won't have the info from these till mid-July when I get back to the states...

1966's Lt. Robin Crusoe, U.S.N.

1979's The Black Hole

1980's Midnight Madness



Scott

[AlwaysOAR]

I just wanted to add that I'll be receiving the following pressbooks, again I won't have the info for them till mid-July when I'm back in the states...

1964's The Misadventures of Merlin Jones

1966's The Ugly Dachshund




Scott

[disneyfella]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!! Always OAR you rock!!! I have been totally out of commission for the past couple of months. Needless to say I have been totally absent from the board. But I have been thinking about this thread and I specifically came back to search the message board for this thread. I'm so excited to see all the updates!! And I totally like your idea of documenting the featurettes that were attached with the movie premieres as well since I don't think there is any place online that has done a good job of that either. Right now, our list is probably the most definitive out there with this information. I've pulled out my boxes of pressbooks and stuff and thought I'd add this info:

1. For the premiere of "Babes in Toyland" the the goofy cartoon "Aquamania" was released with it. The following notice is in the pressbook, "There's more laughter, extra pleasure, complete delight for your audiences when you book 'Aquamania' with your engagement of 'Babes in Toyland'"

2. The 1983 re-release of The Sword in the Stone" was attached with the premiere of the cartoon "Winniw the Pooh and a Day for Eeyore".

3. The premiere of "Snowball Express" was attached with the theatrical featurette "The Magic of Walt Disney World".

4. The premiere release of "The Aristocats" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Niok". The original newspaper ads title the featurette, "Niok, the Orphan Elephant".

5. The 1962 re-release of "Son of Flubber" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Dad, Can I Borrow the Car?".

6. The premiere of "Savage Sam" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Yellowstone Cubs"

7. The premiere of "The Sword and the Rose" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Prowlers of the Everglads"




Those are the only definite ones I saw after a brief glance through all my pressbooks. I'll take a more in depth look later. I've actually gotta run for now, but thanks again OAR.....please...PLEASE....keep up the hard work. I'm getting ready to move again, but once that is over and I get all settled I'm planning on getting back in the Disney game


I'll post the aspect ratio for "The Sword and the Rose" next time....it's actually quite interesting.

[disneyfella]

Oh yeah...and I've also ordered "Miracle of the White Stallions" and "The Fighting Prince of Donegal" pressbooks. They are on their way!

[ajmrowland]

Always OAR, I think you should read this.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... -Four/4963

[Escapay]

I'm sure someone with the username AlwaysOAR would know about the difference between 1.78:1 and 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 and 2.40:1

albert

[AlwaysOAR]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!! Always OAR you rock!!! I have been totally out of commission for the past couple of months. Needless to say I have been totally absent from the board. But I have been thinking about this thread and I specifically came back to search the message board for this thread. I'm so excited to see all the updates!! And I totally like your idea of documenting the featurettes that were attached with the movie premieres as well since I don't think there is any place online that has done a good job of that either.

Welcome back! I've been away from this for a couple of weeks myself, and will be for the next few days as well. I hope you don't mind the tweaks I made to the list. I thought linking the viewable pressbooks from the TCM website would be useful for those who were curious and/or doubted the information given in the list, as well as listing the featurettes that premiered with a feature release, for those pressbooks that had that info.

I've pulled out my boxes of pressbooks and stuff and thought I'd add this info:

1. For the premiere of "Babes in Toyland" the the goofy cartoon "Aquamania" was released with it. The following notice is in the pressbook, "There's more laughter, extra pleasure, complete delight for your audiences when you book 'Aquamania' with your engagement of 'Babes in Toyland'"

2. The 1983 re-release of The Sword in the Stone" was attached with the premiere of the cartoon "Winniw the Pooh and a Day for Eeyore".

3. The premiere of "Snowball Express" was attached with the theatrical featurette "The Magic of Walt Disney World".

4. The premiere release of "The Aristocats" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Niok". The original newspaper ads title the featurette, "Niok, the Orphan Elephant".

5. * The 1970 re-release of "Son of Flubber" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Dad, Can I Borrow the Car?".

6. The premiere of "Savage Sam" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Yellowstone Cubs"

7. The premiere of "The Sword and the Rose" was attached with the theatrical featurette "Prowlers of the Everglads"

*Got that one already

A couple of questions...the 1983 re-release of Sword In The Stone, were there projection instructions? If so, will add to the re-release section of list, and if not, will add to those re-releases not having that info.

For Niok, IMDB(yeah i know) states it was a French short released in the US in 1957. The others I will update shortly.

I'll post the aspect ratio for "The Sword and the Rose" next time....it's actually quite interesting.

Good find! I've looked for "The Sword And The Rose" & "The Living Desert" from 1953, as well as "Rob Roy, The Highland Rogue" & "The Vanishing Prairie" from 1954 out of curiosity, though I had thought that "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" was the first widescreen release from Disney. Looking forward to what you found.

Right now, our list is probably the most definitive out there with this information.

I have to confess, I joined a regular DVD forum a few weeks ago, and started posting information from a few of the pressbooks I have received, plus linking the TCM info. I guess I needed another outlet to get this info out, though I did state in my first post that I couldn't take credit for knowing about these, as you were the first to start posting this info, which I didn't even know about till you did.


Scott

[AlwaysOAR]

Oh yeah...and I've also ordered "Miracle of the White Stallions" and "The Fighting Prince of Donegal" pressbooks. They are on their way!

I had been eyeing them too, as well as several others, but I keep finding others I want to get first. With that I also have the following on the way...


1955's Lady And The Tramp

1959's Sleeping Beauty

1960's The Sign Of Zorro


Now obviously, LatT and SB are a bit more expensive than your normal pressbook, but I did find them at a much reduced price than I have seen them previously, so I had to jump at the chance at getting them.

Also, with SB, the seller states that the letter linked from that Digital Bits article is in the pressbook, and of course if I find any other information in it, I will be posting.


Scott

[AlwaysOAR]

AlwaysOAR, I think you should read this.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... -Four/4963

Oh, I have read that previously, and my thoughts on all of it are stated below the quotes...

When transferring that 1.85:1 movie to video, the studio may choose to either transfer it at the precise 1.85:1 with small letterboxing on a 16:9 HDTV, or to slightly lift the mattes, exposing a sliver of extra picture information at the top and bottom. Some studios (like Sony, for example) usually retain the 1.85:1 ratio. Others (like Warner and Paramount) lift the mattes to 16:9 as a matter of policy. And some could go either way on a case-by-case basis.

Some film purists might argue that any alteration of the movie's aspect ratio is an artistic travesty. I'll admit that in my "Why Don't the Black Bars Go Away?" article, I argued against open matte 16:9 transfers for 2.35:1 movies, and stated that more picture is not always better picture.

However, when it comes to 1.85:1 movies, we should look at the issue a little more pragmatically. The difference between 1.85:1 and 1.78:1 (16:9) is barely a few rows of pixels...

Put me in with the film purists, as I believe that the way it was shown in theatres is how you should want the film preserved on DVD/Blu. I find the author of this article somewhat hypocritical in that if you argue for one ratio to be preserved on video, than you should for all ratios.

Whether that difference is .05 or .5, it shouldn't matter, the original ratio should be preserved. I know I'm in the minority on this, and of course I think I'm right , but I want the correct theatrical ratio.

As far as 2.35 vs. 2.39/40, all that is just mislabling on DVD packaging, since sometime in the 70's the ratio changed from 2.35 to 2.39/40, and some studios still state on their DVD packaging 2.35 for recent releases, when it really is 2.39/40.
It's somewhat similiar to the early days of DVD when some releases had on their packaging 1.37:1 and others 1.33:1, though the actual ratio was 1.33, most releases nowadays state 1.33:1. Anyway, all of these releases, whether they have 2.35 or 2.39/40 on their packaging, have the correct ratio on them as far as I know.



Scott

[disneyfella]

I'll post the aspect ratio for "The Sword and the Rose" next time....it's actually quite interesting.

Good find! I've looked for "The Sword And The Rose" & "The Living Desert" from 1953, as well as "Rob Roy, The Highland Rogue" & "The Vanishing Prairie" from 1954 out of curiosity, though I had thought that "20,000 Leagues Under The Sea" was the first widescreen release from Disney. Looking forward to what you found.


Scott

I've gotta run, so I'll post about Niok later. But I did want to update you on "The Sword and the Rose". I got the pressbook from the original 1953 RKO distribution of this Disney film. Remember that the Paramount film, "Shane" had just premiered with the first 'matted' widescreen picture. On opening the Campaign Book, this is posted on the bottom right of the first page:

""The Sword and the Rose" is the first Walt Disney Feature to be shown on the giant Miracle-Screen

Wide-Screen Prints Are Available at All RKO Radio Exchanges"

I didn't really know how to respond to this. There is no 1.33:1 aspect ratio given.....but then, there really shouldn't be because there was no matting that was done at that time. I think when "Shane" was released it wasn't matted in the projection booth, but the print itself was hardmatted.

So I did a little digging and found no information online about the Giant Miracle-Screen process heralded with this production. Dead end, right?.....WRONG.

I emailed Dave Smith and Leonard Maltin for their input. What did they mean by this, and why have I never heard of this widescreen process before?

It appears that the film was shot in the standard ratio (1.33:1). When the film was released there was a pressure for the film to be distributed widescreen....so for those theatres requesting a widescreen print of the film, it was hard matted to 1.66:1 (the same as the Paramount film "Shane", that same year!). Disney was certainly not far behind on getting on the widescreen craze.....he was right there at the very beginning!!!

So I guess both ratios work for this film: 1.33:1 and 1.66:1.


I've really gotta runt, but I'll post back with more info later this weekend.


Cheers everyone

[Escapay]

Oh wow, that's an amazing find! I'm hoping if/when The Sword and the Rose ever gets a home video release that both viewing options are included.

I've really gotta runt

albert

[ajmrowland]

AlwaysOAR, I think you should read this.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... -Four/4963

Oh, I have read that previously, and my thoughts on all of it are stated below the quotes...

When transferring that 1.85:1 movie to video, the studio may choose to either transfer it at the precise 1.85:1 with small letterboxing on a 16:9 HDTV, or to slightly lift the mattes, exposing a sliver of extra picture information at the top and bottom. Some studios (like Sony, for example) usually retain the 1.85:1 ratio. Others (like Warner and Paramount) lift the mattes to 16:9 as a matter of policy. And some could go either way on a case-by-case basis.

Some film purists might argue that any alteration of the movie's aspect ratio is an artistic travesty. I'll admit that in my "Why Don't the Black Bars Go Away?" article, I argued against open matte 16:9 transfers for 2.35:1 movies, and stated that more picture is not always better picture.

However, when it comes to 1.85:1 movies, we should look at the issue a little more pragmatically. The difference between 1.85:1 and 1.78:1 (16:9) is barely a few rows of pixels...

Put me in with the film purists, as I believe that the way it was shown in theatres is how you should want the film preserved on DVD/Blu. I find the author of this article somewhat hypocritical in that if you argue for one ratio to be preserved on video, than you should for all ratios.

Whether that difference is .05 or .5, it shouldn't matter, the original ratio should be preserved. I know I'm in the minority on this, and of course I think I'm right , but I want the correct theatrical ratio.

As far as 2.35 vs. 2.39/40, all that is just mislabling on DVD packaging, since sometime in the 70's the ratio changed from 2.35 to 2.39/40, and some studios still state on their DVD packaging 2.35 for recent releases, when it really is 2.39/40.
It's somewhat similiar to the early days of DVD when some releases had on their packaging 1.37:1 and others 1.33:1, though the actual ratio was 1.33, most releases nowadays state 1.33:1. Anyway, all of these releases, whether they have 2.35 or 2.39/40 on their packaging, have the correct ratio on them as far as I know.



Scott

Okay, then you clearly know he states his thoughts on the issue.

[Escapay]

I have read that previously

Okay, then you clearly know he states his thoughts on the issue.

Captain Obvious strikes again.



What ever would we do without him?

albert

[ajmrowland]

^he claims he read it before. doesnt always mean Ill believe him instantly.

[Escapay]

^he claims he read it before. doesnt always mean Ill believe him instantly.

Given the fact that he quotes the portion of the article that he wants to talk about, that should be indication enough that he's read it before and knows which part he wants to address.

albert

[ajmrowland]

yeah, the article I linked.

well, you wouldnt understand obviously.

[Escapay]

yeah, the article I linked.

What does that matter? You linked to an article, he said he read it already, then proceeded to give his opinion based on excerpts from the article. Then you give some cockamamie reply that amounts to nothing more than "okay, so I guess you did read it" without adding at all to the actual discussion about aspect ratios and people's views on them. When I call you out on it, you act so goddamn defensive and try to make it sound like you think he's lying when there's proof he read the damn thing.

well, you wouldnt understand obviously.

You never understand anything. This is why I and so many others dislike seeing your name as "last post by" on the forums.



albert

[disneyfella]

I just bought a batch of pressbooks (some of which we've already posted on), but the new ones I'll be able to add are:

That Darn Cat!
Smith!
Gus
The Jungle Book (1978 re-release)
101 Dalmatians (1979 re-release)

and I've also got coming:

The Fighting Prince of Donegal
Miracle of the White Stallions


I'll be sure and post the info when they come in. Oh, and I forgot to post earlier that attached to "The Sword and the Rose" was the True Life Adventure Featurette "Prowlers of the Evergaldes".

As for "Niok", I don't recall it being a French film production. I do have a copy of this featurette (not the television version, but the actual original theatrical cut of this). I'll have to pull it out and I'll update with some more info on that.

Have a happy 4th of July everyone!!!!